I wonder if someone could mod this to create animations or have some WASD control. Pre-arranged animation could get stale after a while.
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I don't know why people are so opposed to founding your own heresy or religion, there is a lot of historical precedent for this, as many religions were founded by a prophet of some kind, and the likelihood of that religions success would probably increase if it was an actual ruler who founded it. New religions were created even after the timeframe of the game, like Sikhism.
In any event, I don't think the AI will be doing it very often, if they even can. I do hope it is harder to make more radical and different religions and heresies, like it will be a lot harder to create a Catholic Heresy that allows cannibalism and incest, than a catholic heresy that allows priests to marry.
In any event, I don't think the AI will be doing it very often, if they even can. I do hope it is harder to make more radical and different religions and heresies, like it will be a lot harder to create a Catholic Heresy that allows cannibalism and incest, than a catholic heresy that allows priests to marry.
You sound like you genuinely have terrible opinions on a lot of things
What interest would a ruler have in establishing a totally new religion, especially for example in the midst of a bunch of realms following the religion of which he is already a part? The answer is pretty much none. And where would a ruler get an idea for a new religion from anyway, does he just make something up and tell a bunch of people to start worshiping him or something? it's just stupid
neither of them was a monarch. if the game had generated religions/heresies which spawned from clergy/monks/random landless people, it might be pretty interesting, but the idea of a secular ruler deciding to just make a religion out of thin air is absurd
Independence from religious leaders like the Pope, setting up a social hierarchy that benefits them and/or their descendants, etc.
I mean, is it impossible that some king might have some kind of vision, and actually believe in this new faith? You seem to be looking at it only from the angle of a ruler trying to use this new religion for their own gain.
What I don't understand, is why would this be any different than other religions? A great number of religions start with some kind of prophet spreading the word of their god.
One could say Mohammed was a monarch. Also why are the rulers secular?
I mean, Akhenaten changed the state religion of Ancient Egypt to Atenism. Were the Pharaohs not monarchs?
I guess I more meant secular as in holding secular titles in the CK sense; they aren't part of the clergy. the only playable characters in the game with religious titles are Caliphs and a Caliph obviously isn't going to create a new religion separate from Islam, considering they already lead a religion
not sure what the creation of a cult in ancient Egypt has to do with religion in the Medieval period
That would be more along the lines of a heresy. For the record I don't have as much of a problem with heresy creation, just a separate religion; you can excuse the creation of a heresy as "the king exploits religious tendencies/heterodoxy and promotes certain strains of thought in his realm"
Also we can have stuff like In nomine Domini passed, changing how papal election work. As it was in 1059, and the devs mentioned an 867 start date as an option.
what I would wonder is if this is controlled by event, or whether the Pope could change Catholic tenets as religious head... I don't trust CK2's AI to change religions, we'd end up with nonsense half the time or more
Your saying that a monarch creating his own religion is unheard of, that is an example of one doing just that, he turned a normally polytheistic religion into a monotheistic one, used this religion to strengthen his position as Pharaoh, and he removed the previous religious hierarchy, and this religion was created seemingly "out of thin air" as well. That all sounds like something that would happen when a player in CK3 creates their own religion.
The Sunni-Shia split, the Schism, all of the heresies, I mean LITERALLY all of the heresies could be handled by this mechanic. Let's not get hung up on the word "Prophet" which might be the "Top Level" of religion founding. We literally know nothing about how this works.
Extrapolating from CK2 mechanics... if Catholic moral authority was low AND my "Prophet Mana Points" were high enough, I found the Cathar Heresy because I want to be able to appoint my daughters and sisters as bishops. Then I work to start the conversions. And since my guy is King of France, I now make it my goal to make my new Franco-Catharism the new Catholic hotness.
Now, what will be awesome is if we get to pick icons and names. Because then multiplayer games will get snarky. The Most High Church of Duuk is coming to a country near you. We offer polygamy, we're resistant to conversion, and we require infidels to pay a tax.
Extrapolating from CK2 mechanics... if Catholic moral authority was low AND my "Prophet Mana Points" were high enough, I found the Cathar Heresy because I want to be able to appoint my daughters and sisters as bishops. Then I work to start the conversions. And since my guy is King of France, I now make it my goal to make my new Franco-Catharism the new Catholic hotness.
Now, what will be awesome is if we get to pick icons and names. Because then multiplayer games will get snarky. The Most High Church of Duuk is coming to a country near you. We offer polygamy, we're resistant to conversion, and we require infidels to pay a tax.
Think alternatives should be in place:
- Hesriarch (Generic) Religous Rabble rouser
- Founder / Prophet (Generic/Pagan)
- Reformer (Christian) Seems to be a common thing in the middle ages for christians
- Mahdi (Islamic) Were a few of them in the middle ages
- Messiah (Jewish) Were a few of them in the middle ages
- Guru (Dharmic) Not sure what else they would be called
- Hesriarch (Generic) Religous Rabble rouser
- Founder / Prophet (Generic/Pagan)
- Reformer (Christian) Seems to be a common thing in the middle ages for christians
- Mahdi (Islamic) Were a few of them in the middle ages
- Messiah (Jewish) Were a few of them in the middle ages
- Guru (Dharmic) Not sure what else they would be called
I strongly believe that customizable religions are a great concept in general. And of course we only know a little about them at this point in time.
BUT this "prophet" thing sounds silly. Especially, since it's a perk. I fear that the whole perk system will be a lot like: You can make any character whatever you want. So while the AI won't have many prophets, you as a player will be able to become a prophet with a lot of ease. And then form your own glorious religion and everyone follows it... So it really should be a one in a hundred chance that any character will ever (even with min max gaming) be able to reach that perk. I fear that this will not be the case.
Also, from a realism perspective: I thought that the costomizable religious features where more like the anglican church: You want a divorce, but cannot get one? Well, simply say that the pope is wrong and proclaim your own church (heresy). That's the easy part. But it should have substantial consequences, internally and externally. Look at how much war and intrigue was going on in England on that issue. Some people won't like you. Some people will try to depose you. Some people will try to kill you. Your realm's stability will be gone for a long time.
Changing a religion is mainly a matter of political power and influence. Of course, theological knowledge will help you to convince some people, but to establish your religion political power is necessary.
As for founding entirely new religions (which might be the intend of the prophet perk): Another possible limitation would be that you must have a (hidden) trait that you gain randomly on birth. It could also be related to mental ilnesses, hearing voices, etc. Something that not every character fulfills. I mean how many sane persons found a religion in their free time?
BUT this "prophet" thing sounds silly. Especially, since it's a perk. I fear that the whole perk system will be a lot like: You can make any character whatever you want. So while the AI won't have many prophets, you as a player will be able to become a prophet with a lot of ease. And then form your own glorious religion and everyone follows it... So it really should be a one in a hundred chance that any character will ever (even with min max gaming) be able to reach that perk. I fear that this will not be the case.
Also, from a realism perspective: I thought that the costomizable religious features where more like the anglican church: You want a divorce, but cannot get one? Well, simply say that the pope is wrong and proclaim your own church (heresy). That's the easy part. But it should have substantial consequences, internally and externally. Look at how much war and intrigue was going on in England on that issue. Some people won't like you. Some people will try to depose you. Some people will try to kill you. Your realm's stability will be gone for a long time.
Changing a religion is mainly a matter of political power and influence. Of course, theological knowledge will help you to convince some people, but to establish your religion political power is necessary.
As for founding entirely new religions (which might be the intend of the prophet perk): Another possible limitation would be that you must have a (hidden) trait that you gain randomly on birth. It could also be related to mental ilnesses, hearing voices, etc. Something that not every character fulfills. I mean how many sane persons found a religion in their free time?
I'd argue Mohammed was an adventurer-turned-monarch. He was no ruler when he began Islam, after all.