Stellaris Dev Diary #218 - Plantoids Gameplay

[HFY]

Can the AIs uses these civics well?

Like an AI with the Life-Seeded origin and the Bloom civic, will it convert worlds to Gaia so it can expand?

 

[shadow737]

Are you adding any of these traits to the NuBaol in the Baol precursor event chain?

 

[Reedstilt]

Are you adding any of these traits to the NuBaol in the Baol precursor event chain?

Oh! Good call. I could definitely see them getting some of these.

While we're at it, the Nivlacs should probably get Radiotrophic too.

 

[InvisibleBison]

I very much welcome further differentiating the species as right now the main difference is just in their names and their portraits.

The main difference between species is in their traits, not their names or portraits.

 

[Pale Blue]

I don't have any specific idea.
It is just that Lithoid / Necroid both have 0 points traits that change how to play without making you sacrifice base traits. So I think it would be better that Plantoid / Fungoid follow the same design.

Yes consuming energy instead of food should be free if not give you a point. Energy production is less efficient than food production, so you need more pops working to feed your population.

Food to alloys should in its current form also be at least free. Both need 1,5 miner/farmer to feed one metalurgist. But with the civic you can't use the minerals from mining stations. You also have the opportunity cost of not being able to pick a beneficial civic like miners guild instead. You shouldn't have to waste a civic slot for a purely flavor change. Using food instead of minerals for alloys needs to be free or the civic needs something in addition like +1 farmer output or more efficient metalurgist to compensate for the spent civic point.

 

[HFY]

Budding looks great. I'm definitely using that on a Spiritualist empire.

Phototropic looks like a 0-point trait. It's not a net bonus like all other 1-point traits. At best it's a side-grade.

Radiotropic is cool, but seems balanced as a 1-point trait (and Phototropic is just the Plantoid default or a 0-point trait).

If you make Phototropic the Plantoid default, then perhaps some kind of Carnivorous 1-point trait would convert them to all food (no energy) and give a related bonus, like +% army morale damage, and +% damage vs non-robot armies.

 

[O'neill]

PDX: Hey guys, we made this new team that will create content to old DLCs and stuff like for Plantoids!
Community: Nice ty!
Few months later.
Comments: Hey wth? Why are these traits only for plants?!

Jokes aside, it seems cool. And I assume the update is quiet far off so we can expect more stuff to come in the coming dev diaries.

 

[Objulen]

The changes look neat! A few thoughts:

1. Phototropic seems like it could have some potential, but it feels a bit lackluster. Energy is more useful than Food, by and large, so shifting more of your economy to require energy isn't a benefit unless the RNG gods really messed you over on Food production. This trait really requires some kind of combo to shine, but one that is fundamental to the entire economic structure, like the Void Dweller origin's difficulties with getting food. Other than that, the benefits would be subtle at best, like HM's developing more Generator worlds than Farm worlds, or helping build an economy more geared towards Synth Ascension.
   
   Ultimately, I think this trait just needs a slight boost to really be noteworthy - photosynthesis has to be easier to gain nourishment from than growing food, since pops can just stand in the sun, so a small reduction to the energy upkeep cost would really be all it needs. Instead of replacing 50% base Food upkeep with Energy upkeep, it should replace it with, say a 45%-40% Energy upkeep, for a total reduction of 5%-10% upkeep.
   
   
2. Radiotrophic is a much better trait IMHO. It leads to a notable play style of nabbing Tomb Worlds, pairs wonderfully with the Post Apocalyptic origin, and still has all the benefits of Phototropic. Even if you don't want to destroy the galaxy, it might be worth it to get Become the Crisis so you unlock Armageddon Bombardment Stance and turn uninhabited planets into Tomb Worlds!
   
   Also, Embrace the Worm. That is all.
   
   
3. Budding! Expensive, but good to have as your empire grows. The snowballing effect will be nice. It will be better for empires that consolidate pops onto larger worlds, to churn out pops more quickly, maybe with the Corvee System or Subsumed Will. It has obvious utility with Syncretic Evolution, since choosing which species grows has a penalty otherwise.
   
   Since this costs 3 points, and you start with 24 pops normally, you'll get 0.48 more pop growth which increases from there, which is more than the 0.3 bonus from Rapid Breeders. While Rapid Breeders feed directly into base pop output, Budding gives you 1.0 pop growth with 50 pops on a planet, isn't affected by planetary capacity, and combines with Cloning Vats. It may end up being too strong, even as a 3 point trait. Pops are power.
   
   
4. Catalytic Processing opens up opportunities. Food is generally easier to get than minerals, and being able to shift Alloy production off of minerals to food allows for some great possibilities. It pairs well with Agrarian Idyll (though that does stop Ecumenopoli), and late game you can use Ring Worlds for massive food production for alloys. This seems like a very strong Civic for building up an economy more quickly.
   
   Ring Worlds are being reworked, but this is a massive boost the Ring World origin as it stands. Whether that will remain once it's changed, we'll see, but it alleviates the mineral burden the origin has to deal with.
   
   I'm a little curious why Rogue Servitors and Driven Assimilators are not allowed to take this Civic - was it too powerful for MEs that needed food for their economy anyway? It's rather baffling that the MEs with the most reason to take this Civic are prevented from doing so. A standard ME doesn't have to change their play style significantly to benefit from this civic, and MEs don't produce as much food as organic empires anyway. Given that a DA or RS would have to choose between this and Rapid Replicators as their other starting Civic, I'm not sure why this choice was made.
   
   
5. Idyllic Bloom is interesting. Gaia worlds are great -100% Habitability and 10% more resources from jobs? Yes please. Overall, the stages seem balanced. A notable energy cost, but attainable. The real hurdle comes from the volatile gas cost for later stages and development.
   
   What's really beneficial with this civic is the 10% and 5% pop growth bonuses from the first two phases, which are also the least expensive in terms of gases, and provide a nice 10% Habitability bonus with the second stage. I'm assuming the pop growth bonus remains after you finish the process, since Gaia Worlds normally don't get growth bonuses.
   
   The main drawback is that the Civic only allows for worlds matching your species' specific planetary preference to be terraformed this way. While this is necessary for early game balance, I have to wonder if it'll be too restrictive to really make this Civic worthwhile in the end. You can terraform other worlds to your species' preference, but to begin the Gaia World process you need 10 pops on the planet, so it's a much more involved process.
   
   I think the Civic - since it can't be removed - would benefit from some buffing and tech gating. For example, you can use the first two phases out of the gate, and you can use them on any planet class matching the base species: Wet, Cold, or Dry. With the Terraforming tech, you unlock phase 3 and can apply it to any base planet. Climate Restoration unlocks Phase 4.
   
   While the example listed is for a Hive Mind, but I don't think this Civic is worth it for Hive Minds. Hive Worlds are just too good - you'd want to replace all your Gaia Worlds with Hive Worlds, and since this Civic can't be removed, you'd end up with dead weight. For this Civic to really be worth it for HMs, it'd need to terraform them into Hive Worlds.
   
   While it may seem that the Nu-Boal origin wouldn't be beneficial with this civic, that's really not the case. Relics are expensive with long cooldowns, and this Civic can only be used on one specific planet type. The Nu-Boal relic doesn't have that restriction - you're better off using this Civic on your species' specific planet type and using the Last Boal on other planet types.

 

[Tech Noir Synth]

Excuse me, why would I want to waste 1 trait point on Phototrophic? Since the recent patch Energy and Food base output is exactly the same. So the only benefit from using this trait is having to use less food and more Energy. But since Energy was already needed way more than food (for districts, buildings, ships, stations) you were already incentivized to go for Energy specialized planets.

To me this is just a waste of a trait slot for minimal gain due to needing less food districts which turn into specialized energy districts. But considering the opportunity cost of a trait slot (not just the trait cost 1 point) I don't see myself ever using this.

This is just another mediocre to lackluster addition with some flavour text that ultimately isn't going to have a big impact on gameplay. If it was an actual good trait then it would have impact on gameplay. But not in this iteration.

I like the civic to use Food for Alloys. Now thats something thats worth picking AND has direct impact on gameplay. More of this please!

 

[Tech Noir Synth]

Radiotrophic is a much better trait IMHO. It leads to a notable play style of nabbing Tomb Worlds, pairs wonderfully with the Post Apocalyptic origin, and still has all the benefits of Phototropic. Even if you don't want to destroy the galaxy, it might be worth it to get Become the Crisis so you unlock Armageddon Bombardment Stance and turn uninhabited planets into Tomb Worlds!

Also, Embrace the Worm. That is all.

This is a nice analysis, I agree. However the fact that this exists is just another painful stab at Hivemind and Gestalt players. Because we have been asking to be able to get the Horizon Signal event for years! But for some reason its still not possible for Gestalts to get the Horizon Signal event. Hopefully the devs will finally listen and enable this event for everyone.

 

[Helicopter200]

this is only plantoids dev diary or it will be more?

 

[TheGrinningMan]

It ain't much, probably won't pull Plantoids out of the bottom of the DLC tier list... but it's something, and it'll make my drunken purchase feel a lot more solid. A Devouring Swarm with Catalytic Processing sounds just sick and wrong, especially with Phototrophic thrown in so more food can be diverted to alloys.

 

[Silyus]

Love these changes, maybe except the Photographic trait. Generally food is more available than energy at any stage of the game, so I find it hard to justify spending a precious trait point in that. But maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Shimohi]

Proper UI scaling please.

 

[C0rvus19]

These all look very unique, and I bet some fun playstyles could result from using them!

 

[DurianKing]

I love that the civic makes ALL metallurgists into catalytic technicians. It will be interesting playing games where minerals aren’t very important.

I’m still holding out hope that “large, spikey, smelly fruit” will get added as a species trait, though…

 

[NikolayKarpov]

Love these changes, but Phototrophic looks like a placeholder. Probably to have a connection with the star's class will be more logical in that case. Star's class can affect breeding speed, energy/food production.

 

[Darklight731]

If rock people can use 100% minerals instead of food, why not also let plant people use 100% energy instead of food? The 50% strikes me as odd.

Well, plants in real life can`t just sustain themselves on pure sunlight, the have their roots to get minerals, take in CO2 from the air, and, when there is not enough of things to eat from the soil, plants can just LITERALLY eat other creatures, venus flytrap style. It wouldn`t make sense for a plant to sustain itself on sunlight alone.

 

[Kaoru Sen'nin]

Can the AIs uses these civics well?

Like an AI with the Life-Seeded origin and the Bloom civic, will it convert worlds to Gaia so it can expand?

The AI can't use anything well so... at least it will be consistent

 

[eagletrekkie]

I don't have any specific idea.
It is just that Lithoid / Necroid both have 0 points traits that change how to play without making you sacrifice base traits. So I think it would be better that Plantoid / Fungoid follow the same design.

This is true for Lithoids, but the Necroid trait is optional, and available for all species types, not just necroid, as it's through the necrophage origin.