Stellaris Dev Diary #218 - Plantoids Gameplay

[Objulen]

I wouldn't say its OP, it just shifts your focus. Catalytic Technicians use 50% more food than Metallurgists use minerals, just like how farmers produce 50% more food than miners produce minerals. I also think food overall needs more uses, so this is a very welcome addition in my book.

That's a fair point. With the higher upkeep, mineral costs for alloys scale better with resource buildings than food costs with resource buildings. (Upgraded resource buildings +2 to base production)

9 food for 3 alloys, base 8 production with resource building, or 1.125 pops to produce materials.
6 minerals for 3 alloys, base 6 production with resource building, or 1 pop to produce materials.

 

[zZander56]

Can't say I'm too impressed by these traits. I just don't see them having a large impact on gameplay the same way Lithoid's extra habitability and slow growth does. Then again, this is the Plantoids pack. There's not too many interesting places to take this.

The two civics however are actually interesting.

 

[Objulen]

I do not think the "radiotrophic" trait will be worth the extra point over "phototrophic" with these values. The number of tomb worlds starts low and decreases throughout the game, unless someone uses Armageddon bombardment - meaning that the trait loses value over the course of the game and is only likely to reach its full potential in the hands of genocidal empires, unless we get the ability to terraform worlds into tomb worlds. I am also concerned that the random species generator will give many plantoids and fungoids (empires and natives) this trait, despite them having almost no use for it. It would just deprive random AI empires of a valuable point.

A solution could be to give "radiotrophic" an additional benefit over "phototrophic" (0.5 food, 0.5 energy) on normal worlds.
The trait would then still offer additional value when compared to "phototrophic", even if the species never sets root on a tomb world.

• 0.25 food, 0.5 energy (0 on tomb worlds)?
• 0 food, 1 energy (0.5 on tomb worlds)?

(I also worry that randomly generated plantoids and fungoids with the Post-Apocalyptic origin will fail to take advantage of this trait.
Can the trait be given a greater random weight when the Post-Apocalyptic origin is chosen, or vice versa?)

100% Habitability during the early game is helpful, with Post Apocalyptic. Getting extra Tomb Worlds would be the problem, but you can Armageddon Bombardment with Become the Crisis, or if you get the Jovian Pox from your precursor chain - it'd finally have some use.

The benefits would taper off to basically paying half food upkeep costs for pops as the game progresses, so most of the benefit would depend on getting and colonizing Tomb Worlds early on, to side-step the SE problem with habitability and expansion.

 

[Tannhäuser Cake]

The upgrade of the Plantoids DLC could feel more complete if it contained a new origin as well.
One thing that comes to mind even has a Starship Troopers quote ripe for the picking:

They have the ability to colonize planets by hurling their spore into space.

Spores are a propagative feature of plants and fungi.
"Spore" colony ships?
Perhaps a gentler, greener counterpart to "Calamitous Birth"?

• Free terraforming within your climate group upon colony completion? (would synergize with the new "Idyllic Bloom" civic)
• Adds a temporary or permanent planetary modifier?
• Increases habitability by 10 %?
• Can colonize planets outside of your borders, but take longer to finish?

 

[tremor3258]

Interesting to be able to build Gaia worlds without the ascension pick. That's intriguing, though would be slower given have to terraform to the right type for species, then build the seeder.

 

[Stug_Life]

I'm loving these civics tied to certain species, is there any chance Necroids could have some specific civics or have reanimated armies only for them?

 

[Artaud2020]

Will this drive the price up of the Plantoids DLC?

 

[Azrai]

interesting changes

might I suggest making idyllic bloom mutually exclusive to the gaia origin because this could potentially be a "Trap" for new players

 

[Nebbie Zebbie]

My thoughts:

1. That's it? No origins? No bio ships? All of these are just economic changes that feel slapped on rather than really changing how anything will feel.
2. Phototrophic is flavorful but bad because of it being an equal rates exchange, when energy is more valuable. It would be fine and really cool if the energy upkeep was lowered on planets close to their stars.
3. Radiotrophic is even more flavorful, but even worse. 2 trait points for less food upkeep and more hab on a world type that's not even guaranteed to exist? This kind of thing needs Post-Apocalyptic to be good to even have a niche, and it isn't good (please please please give it 1 habitable being a Tomb World, and replace leader lifespan with habitability tech event chains).
4. Budding looks too weak.
5. Idyllic Bloom is cool as a better World Shaper...but bad as a locked civic.
6. Catylitic Processing is pretty great...which is a shame considering it's the only non-plantoid/fungoid thing here.

Overall, I think you guys need to push the envelope a little more. All of the plantoid/fungoid stuff here is basically "Oh right, that's a thing" level.

 

[SteelCrow]

Idyllic Bloom: This Civic lets you transform planets into Gaia Worlds by building Gaia Seeders and upgrading them. The Gaia Seeders have 4 phases, with the 4th and final phase triggering the terraformation of the planet to a Gaia World. Available to regular empires as well as Hive Minds.

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Does this mean the bonuses inherent with Gaia Worlds are being changed? Currently they do +10% bio and lithoid happiness and +10% resources from jobs, but no boost to growth speed. In some cases I would prefer to leave the terraforming unfinished, unless the bonuses remain.

 

[Winterborn21-37]

Nice to see you guys back!

Two questions:

1. Can we have the new traits available for all empires that finish Biological Ascension? Please please please?
2. Idyllic Bloom says you need to have Planty/Fungi species. Does it mean that you can have Syncretic Evolution with secondary species being Plantoid and primary NOT being Planty/Fungi and it will be available? Thinking about a gardener race that has Plantoid serviles.

Overall I approve of this dev diary.

Can't wait to see some juicy things in Humanoids (you teased dwarf-like civic some time ago - hoping for some nice orc/elf ones so I can play Morrowind AND Stellaris at the same time.

 

[Lorenerd11]

1. Can we have the new traits available for all empires that finish Biological Ascension? Please please please?

This would be a great compromise. In my view, the new traits should be exclusive to Plantoids and Fungoids at game start, but could be modified into other organics with Biological Ascension.

 

[Shaeliss]

So, apologies if it has already been asked... But is there any reason to lock the plantoid/fungoid features to the plantoid/fungoid portraits instead of just to the DLC? I mean, why couldn't we use those traits with the Humanoid Species Pack? I kinda want a WAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!, and some of the traits/civics would fit it pretty well...

 

[Strangedane]

Budding might be good, the other 2 traits are trash.

The 2 civics are interesting if a bit underwhelming.
CP might be cool for ringworld starts and maybe for hiveminds.

Idyllic is weird.
After you've built to level 4, you'll want to destroy it to either replace it with another building or to get down to the tier 2 building.
I read ideal as same type as starting planet, which means you'll almost always will have to terraform first.

Not sure how it will play out, but it seems not quite worth a civic slot.

 

[Methone]

Hmm, not a fan of the new traits requiring Energy upkeep. I mean, do we need to pay energy credits to stand around in the sunlight now?

 

[AchedTeacher]

I kinda wish Radiotrophic would allow you to create tomb worlds of planets you already inhabit.

Hmm, not a fan of the new traits requiring Energy upkeep. I mean, do we need to pay energy credits to stand around in the sunlight now?

I think it is to abstract the fact that most planets, at least in the mid-late game, are extremely densely populated. So not every individual actually has time/space to stand in the light a lot. I mean hell, imagine if human civilization was instead made up of sentient plants. Would everything be the same? I'd reckon the way we do office jobs wouldn't work as well. Maybe in the industrial era, plant people became more concerned with productive efficiency and so started to give everyone supplementary power for when they weren't in the sunlight. Now admittedly, energy costs may be a little high to be realistic. But that may be down to game balance.

I'm loving these civics tied to certain species, is there any chance Necroids could have some specific civics or have reanimated armies only for them?

With how cave mushrooms can survive off dead plant matter sinking beneath the surface, honestly I wouldn't mind seeing a fungoid-necrophage species with plants as their dead slaves.

 

[lagi08]

Im thinking about the catalytic processing... it would be interesting but I dont know if this would be such a good civic in the end game of a long lasting game.
Ringworlds are difficult to populate in teh endgame and habs are not good for generating food.

But WHY are RS and DA are excluded here again? Especially since they are the only MEs who have a purpose in building Agrar-Districts to begin with??

 

[Troyen]

The civic cannot be removed, but the building is not required to sustain the terraforming process when it completes.

If your planet with a mid-stage building gets conquered, is the building automatically lost or does the new owner have to manually disable/remove it? If I retake the planet, can I pick up the terraforming where I left off, or do I have to start over?

 

[Critical Ethics]

So, apologies if it has already been asked... But is there any reason to lock the plantoid/fungoid features to the plantoid/fungoid portraits instead of just to the DLC? I mean, why couldn't we use those traits with the Humanoid Species Pack? I kinda want a WAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!, and some of the traits/civics would fit it pretty well...

Humanoids will be getting its own stuff, there was a preview of a special artisans civic in an earlier dev diary.

 

[Shaeliss]

Humanoids will be getting its own stuff, there was a preview of a special artisans civic in an earlier dev diary.

Thank you for answering a question I haven't asked and not answering my actual question.

Is there any reason why, if I have the DLC, I have to be locked into using the portraits from this DLC to use the traits? I mean, for instance, a few of these plantoid/fungoid traits would fit Orks of the MORE DAKKA, Da Red Unz Go Fastah and WAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH fame (a trait that allows to throw spores everywhere?), but the orkish portrait is obviously in the Humanoid section... I get making the civics mutually exclusives and so on... But I'm not the only one who'd like to mix a portrait from "DLC X" and mechanics from DLC Y. The portraits themselves are mostly cosmetic anyways (other than the slight diplo modifiers tied to different portraits), so why not?

And for all those who don't want AI empires with odd combination, there's an easy fix: disallow mismatch from randomly generated AIs... Custom empires though, all bets are off.