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CK3: Tours and Tournaments - The Vision

Greetings!

Come one, come all! The grand tournament awaits your attendance - your steeds have been readied and your entourage assembled for the journey ahead! It’s time to show the world your graciousness as host and worth in the arena… but to get there, we’re better off routing our journey around the treacherous mountain passes of Stipon, as I hear they’ve been crawling with highwaymen since your, ahem, dalliance with Duke Andronikos’ wife during his son's wedding. Then there’s the matter of your unruly vassals: perhaps it’s time for a royal tour?

The life of a ruler was always active - there were many things to attend to, and most courts at the time were itinerant, roaming from place to place constantly. Tours and Tournaments aims to give rulers plenty of things to do, especially during times of peace, by introducing new systems of Travel and Grand Activities!

As mentioned in the Floorplan Dev Diary, we want to reinforce the connection between character and map - after all, the game is played on a beautiful medieval map, and no longer will the only time your ruler leaves the safety of their capital be when you’re at war. There’s an entire world out there to explore, filled with both great opportunities and adventurous obstacles.

By assembling an entourage, selecting options for your travel, and hiring a caravan master, you are ready to set out on the road and travel to activities across the world. The Travel system is an integral part of activities, with both the host and guests traveling to reach them - creating a stronger feeling of place as you see your route being plotted and your character moving directly on the map.
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[Image: The Duke of Bohemia setting out on a Tour]

So what are these activities you can travel to, you ask? There’s plenty - firstly we’ve updated and revamped Feasts, Hunts, and Pilgrimages completely - the bread-and-butter of activities. There’s now a reason to hunt in a specific forest within your domain, as a ferocious wolf or legendary stag might have been spotted there - or a reason to hold a feast in a holding with leisure palaces, as you might need to impress a particularly unruly vassal. Pilgrimages will now be epic journeys, potentially taking years if you’re going far - making it necessary for a regent to rule in your stead. All activities have dedicated interfaces with easily-accessible information and beautiful art to set the scene.

Of course, there are Grand activities that are even more impactful - each of them different in their own magnificent way! They have Options and Intents which affect rewards and what type of content you might encounter. Our aim is to make each activity have a clear purpose and be interesting in its own right, therefore we chose to make Grand Tournaments, Grand Tours, and Grand Weddings - three vastly different activities with vastly different executions and purposes!
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[Image: Example of Activity Types, initial step]

Grand Tournaments are where you go to test your mettle: spectacles to be announced far and wide, with rewards ranging from precious trinkets to fabulous prizes! Grand Tournaments aren’t only for martially-inclined characters - while there are contests such as melees and jousts, there are also more cerebral ones such as recitals or erudite board games. You can join your knights in slippery wrestling, eagle-eyed archery, dangerous horse racing, and vicious team melees - all clad in gleaming armor brandishing your coat of arms for the masses to see! Participating and winning in these contests will see your characters and knights grow in skill and receive prizes; living the life of a frequent tournament-goer is a valid path to take. Exploring the tournament Locale and choosing the right Intents might help you out in other ways as well, be it finding friends or dispatching rivals. If you’re in need of renown, hosting tournaments yourself will grow your standing significantly, as rulers from foreign realms come flocking to the fateful grounds, eager to compete!
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[Image: Snapshot of part of the Tournament UI. Tournaments, unlike other Grand Activities, have an extra special interface - more on that in the Tournaments Dev Diary]

Grand Tours see you assemble your entire court and set out to visit vassals in your realm - an activity commonly undertaken by medieval rulers. This is a way to assert your overlordship, while also enjoying the hospitality your vassals have to offer. There are various paths to take: Intimidation, Majesty, or Taxation, all affecting the rewards and opinions of your vassals. At its core, Tours are a tool for realm stability - and something a newly-ascended ruler should undertake quite early to avoid factions and revolts. You also get to choose between ways of approaching your vassals individually; you might want to tour the grounds, observe a cultural festival, or simply have a private dinner hosted for you.

Grand Weddings allow you to marry above your station… if you’re willing to pay the cost! They also provide ample opportunity for diplomatic shenanigans, such as impressing neighboring rulers into becoming vassals, forming hard-to-get alliances, or creating favorable matches for your children. Of course, these spectacles come with everything you’d expect out of a medieval ceremony - revelries, drama, and even a bedding ritual at the end. Or you can invite a group of mercenaries to color the halls crimson with the blood of the other House, should you desire it.
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[Image: Planning a Grand Wedding]

As some of you managed to cleverly figure out, there’s also a brand-new regency system where we’ve made sure that it’s both interesting to have and to be a regent. Loyal regents help you by dutifully fulfilling their Mandates, and being the regent of your liege gives you opportunities to (with varying degrees of bloodshed) seize the throne for yourself, should you be doing a “good” job.

There’s also a myriad of other changes which we’ll go into in future dev diaries - smaller systemic updates to buildings, knights, vassal opinions, and so on - all to support a more interesting and living map, where your choices matter more.

So take to the road, ruler - great opportunities await!

Tours and Tournaments will be released in late spring, and until the release we will have weekly Dev Diaries.

Don’t forget to wishlist:
Wishlist on Steam
Microsoft Store

Watch the trailer here!
 
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Did they say that they are updating the law system? I would love to read about that.
No, they didn't. There are just some hints (new button by the portrait), so I naively believe we'll actually get some mechanics we're asking for. I want to trust the developers and I want to like CK3, but I'm at a crossroads on whether or not to continue supporting CK3. If this DLC will be another disappointment, I'll probably take a break from CK3 for a few years. So for now, I really want to trust that this will turn out well.
 
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I believe it will be 100% optional.

Okay, what's the problem then? Murder connected with celebrations is absolutely recorded in history within the period. And it's not just Clan Scotland like the most google savvy might tell you.
Agreeing in principle, but the devil could be in details, if the implementation doesn't happen with enoughs checks to keep it to a resonable rare level. I collected my thoughts of what has to be ensured IMHO here:

 
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Since a lot of people seem upset would you guys be open to maybe upsetting a few more people but making me, personally, very happy? Cuz I see potential for witch content. Maybe a grand tour could also be a possibility for allowing you to hobnob with other witches outside your realm and get new insight, maybe wise (wo)man or herbalist etc or a boost to a stat. And then maybe if you have a Coven you could host a Grand(er) Rite where witches from all over the world gather to discuss the mysteries of the Horned God. If it's really successful maybe you write a new book on the topic or they return to their realms and spark a heresy outbreak because they finally see the truth and just can't keep it to themselves anymore.
 
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Agreeing in principle, but the devil could be in details, if the implementation doesn't happen with enoughs checks to keep it to a resonable rare level. I collected my thoughts of what has to be ensured IMHO here:

Exactly. It's usually a problem with similar historical cases as you could find quite a lot of examples of terrible crimes and mass murders in the past here and there as naturally extraordinary and unforgettable events that are well documented in the chronicles for a good reason. But in reality they were extremely rare (if you take in account whole context and time) and never excepted as some form of normality.
 
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Agreeing in principle, but the devil could be in details, if the implementation doesn't happen with enoughs checks to keep it to a resonable rare level. I collected my thoughts of what has to be ensured IMHO here:

I lowkey disagree entirely, I feel like paradox should bring back all the ahistorical/pop-history/supernatural events they had in ck2 because ultimately telling a compelling story is better than telling a 'real' story; especially since legend/history were pretty entertwined back in the middle ages.
 
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I think what exacerbates the issue is that Paradox changed the DLC model to fewer but more costly (both from the cost of production and sales price) expansions rather than the old way of having a more steady stream of smaller DLCs (although I think the switch was already made with Holy Fury for CK2 and only "made official" with CK3).
The primary reason why we got fewer DLCs is the pandemic. People forget that easily, but it majorly affected many industries. Wokeg has stated that quite a lot came together at the same time and that drastically reduced development progress - and since they didn't want to release half-baked stuff, they took more time instead.
(note: stuff that came together was the transition to remote work, the uncertainty of whether that should be done properly or just quickly, depending on whether it would need to be long term problem or not as well as a major onboarding effort of employees of another studio - which is a lot harder to do in remote work.)

They have stated that the goal is 3-4 releases per year (if i remember correctly), but since CK3 is more effort to develop for than CK2 and the devs have a different approach to releases than CK2 had with every DLC being culture-focussed and mostly just introducing regional stuff instead of large omnipresent mechanics that need to properly interact with everything, my guess is that 4 releases per year is highly optimistic and we're probably more at 2-3 releases per year. Just a guess, though.

And the increase in price is probably just a major inflation correction. You might have noticed that inflation has gone pretty wild recently and everything is more expensive. This simply isn't an exception in that regard. It sucks, especially for people with less money, but that just is how capitalism works.
 
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Just pulling this one out.

How do you suggest that effective dynastic play with landed characters works in theocracies? Especially ones that are inherently meant to be non dynastic (like the (theoretically) celibate Christian

Just pulling this one out.

How do you suggest that effective dynastic play with landed characters works in theocracies? Especially ones that are inherently meant to be non dynastic (like the (theoretically) celibate Christian ones)?

That question is kinda rude and disrespecting for the forum and modding community.
For nearly 20 years users developed uncountable solutions for that - written and easy accessible.
As well as many mods doing that are avaible for downloads.
As well as other Paradox Games (many which are forgoten now, small or medium projects) - that were actually good at delivering usable Theocracies in aformentioned time period.
 
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At last, itinerant courts are a thing, which was the default historical way most kings ruled in the early middle ages. Glad that the map and all the other historical elements are getting their proper treatment, like marriages and contracts, with so much more fleshing out to do potentially.
 
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The primary reason why we got fewer DLCs is the pandemic. People forget that easily, but it majorly affected many industries. Wokeg has stated that quite a lot came together at the same time and that drastically reduced development progress - and since they didn't want to release half-baked stuff, they took more time instead.
(note: stuff that came together was the transition to remote work, the uncertainty of whether that should be done properly or just quickly, depending on whether it would need to be long term problem or not as well as a major onboarding effort of employees of another studio - which is a lot harder to do in remote work.)

They have stated that the goal is 3-4 releases per year (if i remember correctly), but since CK3 is more effort to develop for than CK2 and the devs have a different approach to releases than CK2 had with every DLC being culture-focussed and mostly just introducing regional stuff instead of large omnipresent mechanics that need to properly interact with everything, my guess is that 4 releases per year is highly optimistic and we're probably more at 2-3 releases per year. Just a guess, though.

And the increase in price is probably just a major inflation correction. You might have noticed that inflation has gone pretty wild recently and everything is more expensive. This simply isn't an exception in that regard. It sucks, especially for people with less money, but that just is how capitalism works.

What you're saying is not wrong, but my point was a different one, and one unrelated to the pandemic. From all I have heard, there will be one major expansion per year - please correct me if I'm mistaken - while the other 2-3 will be small packs. My point therefore stands: the one major annual expansion will be a high-stakes release, which will necessarily be polarizing. Royal Court was a high-risk release, and whatever one's personal opinion is, I think it's fair to say that the risk did not pay off. T&T looks less high risk (from the few things we know about it), but is still polarizing. My point being: the degree of polarization is not only a matter of the actual content and quality of the expansion. Rather, there is a structural element to it: one major expansion per year means expectations will have accumulated to such a degree that necessarily many people will be disappointed. No conceivable amount of event packs will be able to change that.

I've heard people here say that devs have said something like Byzantine mechanics are too much for a flavor pack (I don't have a direct dev quote on that), which means they will have to come in one of the major expansions - of which we will probably get one per year. The next possible date for Byzantine mechanics is therefore 2024. Can you imagine the pandemonium if Byzzie stuff still won't be in that 2024 expansion? It just has to be or people will go crazy. And if the 2024 expansion is indeed Byzzie, then people will be angry because of others parts that have been neglected. That's why I say PDX cannot really win in this situation, having one major release per year and stating that the smaller ones are too small for substantial mechanics means it is impossible to meet this community's expectations.

I will wait to see how T&T will shake out, and I am actually liking what I've seen so far. But given the structural issue above means that maybe it is time to consider the "one major and ambitious expansion per year with several smaller ones that are too small to have substantial mechanics" and give us something like one medium expansion every 7-9 months, each of which gives us one set of related mechanics without the resource-intensive flashy 3D graphics (some of which we don't get to see often anyway) and 300 events (which will get stale after a while anyway). My impression is that the community would be fine with 1) ditching the event packs if it meant the resources were shifted to bigger DLCs, and 2) making the large expansions less ambitious (especially if it is something like the 3D court that many of us don't get to see often anyways) if it means that more ground will be covered by medium but more frequent expansions.

Regarding the other point: I am pretty sure that the EUR 30,- price point for a major expansion was set well before the inflation spike came, in fact it was probably announced when the game released so that we could make up our minds whether we wanted to risk the Royal Edition. And the fact that we don't have a price for T&T yet rather makes me think it could increase to adjust for the spike. But as I said, the price for a major expansion would probably not be an issue if the community thinks that the resources were spent on the right things.
 
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if the community thinks that the resources were spent on the right things.
The community can't think that, because the community is fractured.
 
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I'm just very confused and concerned about what's going with the team over Crusader Kings 3. I doubt it's the same team that developed CK2 and it shows. If something works and is beloved why change the formula? You guys legit have a perfect blueprint in front of you with CK2 and a whole bunch of community comments but choose to go in the opposite direction experimenting with things you "think" are wanted. This is supposed to be a sequel not a spin off.

At this point after having CK3 over a year I have zero achievements because I just simply can not play vanilla. Its's so bland and unseasoned, I find myself in the workshop more then actually playing the game to add some flavor. If this game didn't have mod support and was only relying on dlc's I'm not sure if this game would have stayed relevant past the first year. I usually give huge games like this a year to take off and get some content so that's what I did. After 3 years now it's exactly the same besides new unmeaningful events . There has been no substance added as far as gameplay maybe I'll count in the Iberia struggle but that's only for one small portion of the world and doesn't help in the long run, you should've instituted it to around 4 or 5 different regions around the world maybe like England or something who had similar things going on.

This new DLC looks cool but it doesn't solve the problem. I don't think we need anything new for a while. Instead maybe 2 or 3 huge quality of life updates that brings in many gameplay mechanics and features that worked or were good from CK2. You can even make it a dlc if you want "Times Of Old Returns" for 30 bucks and I'll be happy to pay. This game need love shown to its core gameplay and its foundation first before you add icing on top with events.
 
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I'm just very confused and concerned about what's going with the team over Crusader Kings 3. I doubt it's the same team that developed CK2 and it shows.
It's worth noting that the team that developed Holy Fury was only the same team that developed release CK2 in a grandfather's-axe sense.
This game need love shown to its core gameplay and its foundation first before you add icing on top with events.
What, you mean like (just to pull examples from what has been announced for the Tours and Tournaments expansion DLC and its accompanying free patch):

Adding a regency system that is more interesting and nuanced than the one they discarded in the CK2 to CK3 transition?

Improving the game's concept of "location" so that (for example) when you're on a pilgrimage, you actually pass through all of the holdings along your route that lie between you and the pilgrimage site?
 
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The next possible date for Byzantine mechanics is therefore 2024. Can you imagine the pandemonium if Byzzie stuff still won't be in that 2024 expansion?
It will be pandemonium anyway. Everyone screams for their own favorite pet feature.
Some want a major religion rework expansion, some a holy war overhaul (might be too much to do both), lots of people are screaming for trade mechanics and then there is the whole byzantine-or-bust camp. It is irrelevant which of these the devs tackle, people will complain in masses. Just like they are doing now, when "nothing to do in peacetime" was another one of these major points frequently brought up in the forums.

I bet that if they had annouced a warfare/crusade overhaul instead of T&T - as seems to be frequently asked for in this thread - that tons of people would be complaining that war is still the only thing they can do and small realms are pointless to play, because if you're not at war, you're not doing anything at all. And all the people screaming for byzantine mechanics would also still be pissed.

Just imagine the frustration that comes with that, if you know people will complain to enormous extents no matter what you focus on.
 
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It will be pandemonium anyway. Everyone screams for their own favorite pet feature.

That was exactly my point, as the very next sentence after the one you quoted was:

And if the 2024 expansion is indeed Byzzie, then people will be angry because of others parts that have been neglected.
 
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I've heard people here say that devs have said something like Byzantine mechanics are too much for a flavor pack (I don't have a direct dev quote on that), which means they will have to come in one of the major expansions - of which we will probably get one per year. The next possible date for Byzantine mechanics is therefore 2024. Can you imagine the pandemonium if Byzzie stuff still won't be in that 2024 expansion? It just has to be or people will go crazy. And if the 2024 expansion is indeed Byzzie, then people will be angry because of others parts that have been neglected. That's why I say PDX cannot really win in this situation, having one major release per year and stating that the smaller ones are too small for substantial mechanics means it is impossible to meet this community's expectations.
The problem is that if they release a big expansion focusing only on the Byzantine Empire, it will be a very limited expansion, basically a more elaborate flavor pack designed for players who spend a lot of time in this area. I think the developers want the big expansions to affect the whole map, while flavor packs only affect certain areas. Flavor packs seem to be the best received DLCs, as they add variety to the game. Perhaps the solution would be to release larger flavor packs covering larger areas, or more flavor packs of the current size that come out more frequently. Personally, I'd trade a Royal Court for two interesting flavor packs any day, for example.
 
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The problem is that if they release a big expansion focusing only on the Byzantine Empire, it will be a very limited expansion, basically a more elaborate flavor pack designed for players who spend a lot of time in this area. I think the developers want the big expansions to affect the whole map, while flavor packs only affect certain areas. Flavor packs seem to be the best received DLCs, as they add variety to the game. Perhaps the solution would be to release larger flavor packs covering larger areas, or more flavor packs of the current size that come out more frequently.
I think that, when devs say Byzantium would require a big expansion, they mean that Byzantium would come as part of an expansion pack that overhauls a load of governmental/empire mechanics - of which Byzantium Imperial government would be one part. I don’t think they mean that an entire full expansion DLC would be dedicated to Byzantium.
 
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That was exactly my point, as the very next sentence after the one you quoted was:
Sorry, i misread the second sentence and thus misinterpreted what you meant. My bad.
 
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I think that, when devs say Byzantium would require a big expansion, they mean that Byzantium would come as part of an expansion pack that overhauls a load of governmental/empire mechanics - of which Byzantium Imperial government would be one part. I don’t think they mean that an entire full expansion DLC would be dedicated to Byzantium.
I think so too, but that would contradict their claim that they'll be adding the reworked mechanics that were already in CK2 in free patches.
 
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