CK3: Tours and Tournaments - The Vision

[oreopirate]

I stand corrected. Though the plague did first transmit to humans through the rat flea. The best way to avoid the plague was to avoid crowded areas like cities.

A story goes that an infected person was catapulted over the city walls by the Mongols/Tartars. Venice merchants then unknowingly brought the disease back to Europe.

Would late medieval masks be effective at stopping the plague? The only masks that are really effective against COVID are N95. Would the plague be hindered by something much less effective than an N95?

So there is a lot to unpack. First of, one big thing because everyone compared Sars COV 2 to the last major world wide pandemic, SARS COV 2 is a larger virus than the flu. The flu is much smaller. The Late Medieval period didn't really have much in the way of masks. The infamous plague doctor beaked masks were invented in the 16-17th century.
The plague is caused by a bacteria, so much, much larger than SARS COV 2, so a facial covering can stop it, as it is still around in modern day. However, medieval physicians beleived illness to be caused by bad miasma (air), so the solution was to put a bunch of sweet smelling things around to "purify the air". Naturally this helped with the smell of rot and death, but doesn't really do much against viruses or bacteria.

I can hear the screaming if an event like this is added in with a disease-related patch/DLC!

But if I were a dev, I’d be tempted...add relevant conditions so it doesn’t show up too often (one hopes!).

They already do, as part of the physician lifestyle (the health focused learning one). And yes, when they unveiled that event in a dev diary before release, lot of crying about. Usually you are fine, and it just gives some life style experience. Sometimes you get sick, and rarely it will cause an outbreak in your realm.

 

[pbw-410]

I am genuinely really excited about the new roleplay options teased for T&T, but the more I think about it the more I think people are underselling some of the really major mechanical improvements that could be bound up with the new location system:


Firstly, like more than a few people I think that probably the biggest outstanding issue with CK3 is that it ceases to be interesting about 200 years in, and I think a large part of this stems from the fact that a) it is too easy to blob b) there is no incentive in the mechanics not to blob and, most importantly c) there is no real size penalty once blobbing has taken place. However, if, as in real life, the feudal ruler's physical presence becomes necessary to keep vassals in line and stave off a gradual slide in vassal opinion, then the larger the realm, the more time the ruler has to spend on the move, to the point that eg no sooner has the Holy Roman Emperor finished his months-long tour placating the lords of Italy, then the lords of Germany will already be getting truculent again, which not only makes ever-greater expansion harder and harder, but also gives a real upside to playing tall and limiting yourself to a small but cohesive realm where all your vassals are only a week away.

(of course, a 'crisis of the 14th century' DLC combining Mongols, plagues, famines, peasant revolts, depopulation, the little ice age, etc, would do quite a lot to liven up the late game too


Secondly, the location system could potentially add a huge amount to the council system. If your character has to get up and physically re-locate to take up a council seat, leaving your lands in the hands of a regent, then accepting a council position goes from a no-brainer that gives your character a small boost but has basically no impact on gameplay to a decision with some serious trade-offs depending on your situation. Perhaps, much as you like the idea of council bonuses, your character has the content trait, the royal court is full of dangerous enemies, and your heir has yet to come of age and you'd rather not leave him unsupervised...but unfortunately, your name is Ned Stark, and the king has used his Strong Hook (Best Friend) on you, so off to the capital you go.

It could also synergise very well with royal court by giving you the exciting opportunity to play as a character in someone else's court. I have once particular suggestion that could add here – minor court positions that are in the gift of a counsellor, not the ruler, such as bailiffs working under the Steward, jailers or torturers reporting to the Spymaster, Lords Lieutenant or Sheriffs for the Marshal, etc. These officers would boost the council member's job efficiency depending on their ability, and the player could use them to delegate council tasks that would otherwise require the player's character to travel around the realm, as well as providing extra opportunities for nepotism on the king's payroll and more generally as agents and allies in your liege's court, as anyone you appointed to such a position would owe their loyalty to you. For example, imagine you, as your king's Marshal, have decided to appoint your nephew as a Sheriff to give the lad some prospects and a nice salary from public funds. Then, if the king instructs you to improve control in a distant county, you can send him in your stead rather than spending the next 2 years wrangling bandits in a swamp somewhere yourself (unless, of course, you fancied buttering up the local Swamp Lord for your own nefarious purposes...). Alternatively, if the king wants to appoint a courtier to a court position under his control and closer to his person, then your man is on hand as an option, and if for whatever reason you have to leave the court yourself and return home, then given that your successor would need to pay prestige to remove your Sheriffs etc from office just like any other court position, then you could ensure yourself a loyal man at court for potentially years to come (I'm thinking of all the minor officials in Kings landing below Small Council level - under-jailors, keepers of the keys, etc - who are relics from previous regimes).

EDIT: As suggested, I have put this on the suggestions page so do upvote if you find it interesting!

 

[Flockingbird]

If your character has to get up and physically re-locate to take up a council seat, leaving your lands in the hands of a regent, then accepting a council position goes from a no-brainer that gives your character a small boost but has basically no impact on gameplay to a decision with some serious trade-offs depending on your situation.

Oh my, I hadn’t thought of that! Thank you for pointing this out! (I can’t understand how I missed this!)

I have once particular suggestion that could add here – minor court positions that are in the gift of a counsellor, not the ruler, such as bailiffs working under the Steward, jailers or torturers reporting to the Spymaster, Lords Lieutenant or Sheriffs for the Marshal, etc. These officers would boost the council member's job efficiency depending on their ability, and the player could use them to delegate council tasks that would otherwise require the player's character to travel around the realm, as well as providing extra opportunities for nepotism on the king's payroll and more generally as agents and allies in your liege's court, as anyone you appointed to such a position would owe their loyalty to you. For example, imagine you, as your king's Marshal, have decided to appoint your nephew as a Sheriff to give the lad some prospects and a nice salary from public funds. Then, if the king instructs you to improve control in a distant county, you can send him in your stead rather than spending the next 2 years wrangling bandits in a swamp somewhere yourself (unless, of course, you fancied buttering up the local Swamp Lord for your own nefarious purposes...). Alternatively, if the king wants to appoint a courtier to a court position under his control and closer to his person, then your man is on hand as an option, and if for whatever reason you have to leave the court yourself and return home, then given that your successor would need to pay prestige to remove your Sheriffs etc from office just like any other court position, then you could ensure yourself a loyal man at court for potentially years to come (I'm thinking of all the minor officials in Kings landing below Small Council level - under-jailors, keepers of the keys, etc - who are relics from previous regimes).

This would be great in a Council DLC— have you posted this in the Suggestions subforum?

Edit: since pbw-410 has hit the ‘spam’ delay that affects new posters, here’s the link to their suggestion.

 

[Tiax]

the royal court is full of dangerous enemies

Apparently schemes do not take into account location, so I'm skeptical there would be this sort of risk in accepting a council invite even if it did require relocating (which I'm also skeptical of).

 

[pbw-410]

Oh my, I hadn’t thought of that! Thank you for pointing this out! (I can’t understand how I missed this!)

This would be great in a Council DLC— have you posted this in the Suggestions subforum?

Glad you liked it! And that's a good idea - I have done now

 

[pbw-410]

Apparently schemes do not take into account location, so I'm skeptical there would be this sort of risk in accepting a council invite even if it did require relocating (which I'm also skeptical of).

You may well be right there - on the other hand, I think you do currently need to recruit agents either from the target's vassals or from the court in which the target is located, so if the devs do end up making the player character re-locate to their liege's court, then that would presumably change the agent pool that a potential hostile schemer could recruit from (and presumably make it much easier for the liege to cuckold/murder/abduct/imprison an unfortunate councillor as well)

 

[Tiax]

You may well be right there - on the other hand, I think you do currently need to recruit agents either from the target's vassals or from the court in which the target is located, so if the devs do end up making the player character re-locate to their liege's court, then that would presumably change the agent pool that a potential hostile schemer could recruit from (and presumably make it much easier for the liege to cuckold/murder/abduct/imprison an unfortunate councillor as well)

It feels like it would have to be a different form of re-location than other travel. If the agent pool is restricted to your current location, then would all the agents drop out of a murder scheme targeting you whenever you went on a tour? It's plausible that they have some special treatment for councillors, but it just strikes me as unlikely given that they've said schemes are untouched, and this proposal seems to require some special game logic to make work.

 

[Mouse534]

I'm curious and hopeful the tours system will be a miniature rework for the current implementation of wandering family members. I've been playing a Jewish run recently and hope to see my family members actually roaming all around my realm, actually walking to neighbors' courts, and heading to cities for trade, or see them travel to merc courts. It would be a vast and very welcome improvement to having them popping up in some court suddenly and especially if it limits the 'I can't interact with them 'cause somehow they're in India.'

 

[Thessian85]

@rageair Can we expect that in the next dev blog you will also talk about tournament prizes? It would be very nice to see some new artifacts in the game, perhaps with more complex mechanics, like those introduced in Fate of Iberia?

 

[SeraphAscending]

Is that a thing you still have access to and is it math we could look at?

Meth Math, not even once.

 

[zaboli]

Looks great if executed right this could be absolutely amazing. Meaningful and engaging roleplay, great storytelling, better and more realistic realm management, more strategy options.

Could also be a very interesting fix for the infamous snowballing problem. Where it will be harder to keep vassals happy if your realm is too large (too much distance to cover in a tour).

Really looking forward to see more! Great job!

 

[SeraphAscending]

These echo chamber forums have become a place where it is socially acceptable and encouraged to trash the game to which the forum corresponds. This behavior is not unique to CK3: it's obvious that games like Warhammer 3, AoE4, Darktide, Cyberpunk 2077, Divinity 2: Original Sin, Pokemon Scarlet/Violet, Xenoblades 3, World of Warcraft, CoH3, and many more.


My point isn't to say that any of these games are perfect; my point is that the gross negativity and immature approach to problems (real or imagined) by the community is unhelpful, childish, and reflects poorly upon the community in general.

I think it's largely a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Once the toxicity hits a critical threshold most people stop participating and from then on toxicity is pretty much the only thing left.
Most positive people that are on these forums do not want to spend energy on dealing with other people's toxicity. It's really hard to bounce back from it - but i think it's possible. It's a test of endurance - not only for the devs, but also the non-toxic community members.
Toxicity vastly dropped the longer this thread went on. Now most comments are either friendly, positive or simply off-topic talking about planetary orbits.

But who is surprised, now that toxicity is less, we get more dev replies than in the entire first 20 pages of this thread. Almost like people don't want to talk to you if all you do is yell at them. Weird, really.

 

[davidproxy]

@rageair Can we expect that in the next dev blog you will also talk about tournament prizes? It would be very nice to see some new artifacts in the game, perhaps with more complex mechanics, like those introduced in Fate of Iberia?

I’m curious about this too. I’m guessing the black smith will provide new mechanics for artifact crafting but will it replace commissioning them at the court or is there a difference?

 

[DominusNovus]

"Easiest to update" doesn't equal "one the fan base will want most".
You'd still get the "why is this being done instead of that 'more demanded' feature" issue.

And "easiest to update" also doesn't mean that whatever it is would be done well. Copying over the very flawed republics might well be easy (since the ground work exists in CK2), but I don't think it would be a good use of time, since it wasn't good.
Implementing CK2 things to CK3 just because they're easy isn't a good approach.

I didn't say 'easiest to copy,' I said 'easiest to update.' Republics would probably be among the hardest things to update.

And, while it might not be the best approach, it is far superior to not doing it all, given how much dissatisfaction there is to all the features from CK2 being missing from CK3. I would say one of the easier things to update would be to create a bureaucratic imperial government.

 

[johnty5]

The floorplan defense has been skewered pretty effectively already.

Can I ask what this means?

I'm not sure what "the floorplan defense" is. What is it a defense of?

 

[DominusNovus]

Can I ask what this means?

I'm not sure what "the floorplan defense" is. What is it a defense of?

CK3: Tours and Tournaments - The Vision

Greetings! Come one, come all! The grand tournament awaits your attendance - your steeds have been readied and your entourage assembled for the journey ahead! It’s time to show the world your graciousness as host and worth in the arena… but to...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Here ya go

 

[johnty5]

CK3: Tours and Tournaments - The Vision

Greetings! Come one, come all! The grand tournament awaits your attendance - your steeds have been readied and your entourage assembled for the journey ahead! It’s time to show the world your graciousness as host and worth in the arena… but to...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Here ya go

I still don't understand. What does the image in that comment mean?

 

[DominusNovus]

I still don't understand. What does the image in that comment mean?

It means that all the stuff that was on their agenda is not being focused on, instead, just more and more events, and various ways to interact with and experience said events. At the end of the day, whatever screen you happen to be on when the event fires, its still just another event.

 

[johnty5]

It means that all the stuff that was on their agenda is not being focused on, instead, just more and more events, and various ways to interact with and experience said events.

But, in the dev diary where the devs posted that floorplan, they said that nothing on it was going to be the focus of the next DLC.

The explicitly said "the next Expansion is leaning towards the roleplaying side of the game" in that dev diary.

I'm still not sure what the phrase "the floorplan defense" means.

 

[WestuHal]

It means that all the stuff that was on their agenda is not being focused on, instead, just more and more events, and various ways to interact with and experience said events.

I had always understood that the floorplan dev diary set out the plans after the next DLC (i.e. ToTo) - they said in that same dev diary that (i) the next DLC would not focus on stuff that had been done before in CK2 (and even explicitly said that “to make things extra clear; we’re not doing trade, imperial/byzantine mechanics, nomads, or similar this time”), (ii) that the next DLC would be RP-focused and (iii) that it would focus on the connection between map and character…

I was surprised by the apparent backlash to Monday’s announcement as what was revealed seemed to fit entirely with what the devs have been telling us for five months now…I think they were pretty upfront about this early doors.