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I cant quote it since i keep hitting the pam filter, but euro mentioned just before deadline that it seemed like people were happy to settle with the votes. Aren't people most likely to settle when the wolves are happy, meaning villagers are highest in the running? Of course this can't always be true because then every single vote switch would have to be put into question, but on the first day I imagine the wolves would take advantage of the lack of suspicion to move votes more if they're dangerous. As such, I think the two villagers being killed was the most likely of options in the tie that you helped make.
I want to give this the response it deserves. Briefly I can say it's largely vibes-based effort. It's something similar to a wolfdar, or wolf radar, a portmanteau from the early games on this forum.

Your read of my posts is largely on the nose. I am always trying to prompt action, as the village behaviorist I believe we can always deduce inner character by observing a player's action. And words in werewolf are action. When people speak up either in favor of one or against the other, they reveal their inner motivations explicitly for those equipped with the words, or implicitly with the force of their vote.

Ninety minutes after that appeal, the situation had changed, people had made their voices heard. I believed revealing both of the player roles was the move to make at that point. I should be scrutinized for that, but that is how I can explain it. My actions have consequences, but I do not regret them.
 
Let me, on behalf of the village, personally apologize for Wombat's push against you. He got it wrong, and there's no other way to look at it. Does that make him evil or incompetent? I really can't say. All I can do is ask the question.

For chilldude, who was with us all too briefly, I

Vote Wombat
I mean, I can't argue with the logic here, but you are the last person who should be calling me out on this...

So I'm a little suspicious of the run up on Chill yesterday. He was run up in the first place for being a zombie, even though as a new player on day 1 that's very weak, but he ended up showing up to vote two hours before the first possible deadline, three before the actual one. Yakman even explicitly spoke in his defense. I don't think it was 100% clearing, even a new wolf might lie low to avoid attention, but I don't think it made sense to lynch him for it day 1.

More importantly than those first votes though, was Wombat's vote seven minutes before first possible deadline. He voted Chill then, hours after Chill had voted, because Chill hadn't responded to a request from Wombat for his thoughts on events so far. Which is just baffling all around. First, what insight do you expect a new player on day 1 to have, that's so important you'll threaten to lynch him for not giving input on it? Second, because of the deadline situation, did you think Chill was going to show up with an in depth analysis of the day in the seven minutes before the possible deadline? Or were you sure the deadline would be over an hour from then?

Pressuring a player to get more information out of them, in a vacuum, is a sensible move and often useful. Pressuring a new player, on day 1, potentially right before the deadline? That's a bad idea. One Wombat, even after a long absence from werewolf, should know better than.

Now, does this make Wombat a likely wolf. I'm not sure, but consider that at the time Wombat voted, there was a four way tie at three votes each between Chilldude, Dedonus, Panzer, and hdk. Potentially Wombat might have even thought it was a five way tie also including Yvanoff if he hadn't seen Dedonus' switch from Yvanoff to Lief just prior to his vote. With possibly only seven minutes to deadline, a wolf trying to push up one candidate from that close race to protect a packmate is very possible. This could be any of those at three votes, or even some at two or one, Lief in particular was getting rising attention and Wombat explicitly pushed back against the Lief push. Many possible suspects he could be protecting.

So overall I think Wombat is a likely suspect.

Vote Team Wombat
Perfectly logical, as ever; wrong, as usual.

You missed one thing in your analysis. I specifically called out chilldude 50 minutes before deadline before my vote on him (see below for link), saw the little green thing indicating that he was online, and jumped to the onclusion that he was dodging my question.

Hmm...

Like the EURO post from CaptainGrimlock (don't think a baddie Grimlock would put in the effort, regardless of the quality of the analysis), and to a lesser extent MawofDoom's and Yakman's so far have been positive. Euro says Aedan is semi-cleared. Any other votes I missed?

Hate to target a newbie day one, but chilldude74 putting a vote on then frontrunner Dedonus (#194) without any explanation seems a bit sketchy. Worried baddie trying to pile on a frontrunner, perhaps?

@chilldude74 I know it's early, but any thoughts on what has transpired thusfar? I don't like voting newbies early in the game who might be confused about the rules, but any thoughts you might have on the current game state would be appreciated.
Bottom line: I thought he was lurking, and made a judgment call that he was a possible baddie. Obviously wrong in hindsight, and an egregiously dickish move to pull on a new player, but there was method to my madness.

So much for defense. Now let's turn to actual baddie searching.

Randakar was the 3rd vote on chilldude (third vote on the first day essentially cements players and lynch contenders), didn't respond to the summons both of us got before deadline indicating chilldude was a villager (admittedly, deadline is terrible for him), and I really dislike his vote on Wagonlitz, who is contributing this game and who attempted a voteswitch off two known villagers. I'm parking my vote on randy for now.

Vote randakar
 
Vote Count:

EUROO7: 4
CaptainGrimlock [290]
liefwarrior [293]
HistoryDude [294]
MAWofDoom [307]

Culann: 2
Yakman [284]
Wagonlitz [305]

Team Wombat: 2
Euro [313]
Aedan [314]

CaptainGrimlock: 1
Dedonus [310]

Eternaly_Lost: 1
Culann [285]

Johho: 1
Marty99 [300]

Wagonlitz: 1
Randakar [302]

crn7000: 1
Ironhide G1 [304]

MAWofDoom: 1
Alxeu [308]

Randakar: 1
Team Wombat [322]

Not Voted:
@johho888 [Culann 282 > no vote 297]
@Arkasas
@Caillean
@crn7000
@PanzerCorps
@nepechri
@the_hdk
 
didn't respond to the summons both of us got before deadline indicating chilldude was a villager (admittedly, deadline is terrible for him)
I want to know more about this. What was your response to this summons?
 
I want to know more about this. What was your response to this summons?
I believe he refers to how he and randy allegedly had somebody reach out and state Chill was a villager. A claim, if it actually said villager specially, would mean the third party was van Helsjnf.

Depending on when said third party reached out then randy would have had no chance of seeing jt, though.
Deadline is 1 AM Europe time, so no European player can be expected on for the last 2 to 3 hours before deadline.
 
@EUROO7

Third party message, 7 minutes before deadline:

"Chilldude74 might be a zombie, but he is also a villager. Please unvote him."

Me, 7 minutes before deadline.

"Interesting. Will keep in mind." I unvoted Chilldude.

Me - 1 minute after deadline

"freaking EURO"
 
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Effectively, though, you switched from one villager to another villager. Not much to do about that.

Randakar's been too defensive about Caillean imo, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he isn't just openly packing in public.

The Third Party you refer to should have come to me instead of two players unwilling or unable to effect their wishes.

Perhaps future heroes will consider the good of the village before their own personal survival. We might just come out ahead that way.
 
I find aedan's analysis on Wombat quite convincing and honestly I have been getting some baddie vibes from Wombat. Nothing concrete, just a hunch/gut feeling from reading his posts. That said I don't want to lynch any of Euro, Culann or Wombat today because they are active. Of course by speaking out you make yourself a target but it's far too early in the game to kill every active person because we don't agree with everything they say. I think let's bring attention to a less voted person for now.

Vote MAWofDoom

Following Alxeu's lead
 
4 hours until the deadline. I will also ask the crowd if moving the deadline up an hour (6 pm EST) would be preferrable for everyone, especially our European freinds.
 
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@EUROO7

Third party message, 7 minutes before deadline:

"Chilldude74 might be a zombie, but he is also a villager. Please unvote him."

Me, 7 minutes before deadline.

"Interesting. Will keep in mind." I unvoted Chilldude.

Me - 1 minute after deadline

"freaking EURO"
7 minutes to deadline was 0:53 Randy's time. He can not at all be faulted for sleeping at that time, so unless it's proven he was online, then he honestly can't be faulted at all for not reacting tk that.
4 hours until the deadline. I will also ask the crowd if moving the deadline up an hour (6 pm EST) would be preferrable for everyone, especially our European freinds.
Would make it easier for me to make. As in, I might make if then. Atm ita no chance.
Still no guarantee, though.
 
Effectively, though, you switched from one villager to another villager. Not much to do about that.
I mean, the issue was 1) Chilldude was new, and 2) chilldude was apparently scanned. A scanned villager is much more useful than an unscanned villager.

I find aedan's analysis on Wombat quite convincing and honestly I have been getting some baddie vibes from Wombat. Nothing concrete, just a hunch/gut feeling from reading his posts. That said I don't want to lynch any of Euro, Culann or Wombat today because they are active. Of course by speaking out you make yourself a target but it's far too early in the game to kill every active person because we don't agree with everything they say. I think let's bring attention to a less voted person for now.

Vote MAWofDoom

Following Alxeu's lead
FWIW, I've been getting baddie vibes from you as well. MAW has been active and caught that EURO hadn't revealed his scan type yet, so the activity argument is strange.
 
Euro caused chaos and generates information.
He also realised that if one of Chill and Yvanoff died and was a goodie rhen dhe survivor would be run up today. So at that point making a tie makes sense.

Was that really so clear cut? I definitely am against repeating lynch cycles, especially early in the game, so I for one would have argued against that.

I think rehashing day 1 is a bad idea. Its often that people look back and think a baddie must have escaped, if two goodies hang day 1. But usually that's not the case.
Most times it's bad to rehash day 1.

This.
You don't want to invest all of the attention and information gathering on a single person. That way you will end up with some people dodging every single lynch cycle.

I don't like the purposeful vagueness of what scan you used, since being vague makes it so that others can't fact check later whether your scan was accurate, because if someone else claims to have scanned him and gotten a baddie result, you can just claim to have used the other scan. In order to encourage you to say which scan was used;

I definitely would like to know as well.

Good job. You succeeded in voting out a brand new player on day 1 because he came in close to deadline. Amazing, really encouraging people to join Werewolf. Don't count on me coming back.

My apologies, this was not my intention.

However: Relax. Dying early in werewolf is a time-honoured tradition. We have to lynch someone, and it rarely makes sense this early.
For me, and probably a lot of others, it's simply impossible to know if someone is brand new or simply someone who joined the roster in the time that I haven't played. (Years).

But what you can do - the very reason why an early death is not actually as terrible as you think - is post "SUB" in this thread, so you can replace someone. Odds are good someone will forget to vote long enough that you can jump right back into the game.

More importantly than those first votes though, was Wombat's vote seven minutes before first possible deadline. He voted Chill then, hours after Chill had voted, because Chill hadn't responded to a request from Wombat for his thoughts on events so far. Which is just baffling all around. First, what insight do you expect a new player on day 1 to have, that's so important you'll threaten to lynch him for not giving input on it? Second, because of the deadline situation, did you think Chill was going to show up with an in depth analysis of the day in the seven minutes before the possible deadline? Or were you sure the deadline would be over an hour from then?

Seems like a better case than my quick Wagonlitz vote this morning, that's for sure.
And it's not getting any traction either.
Though I still think he's not a terrible candidate. He's one of those people who get very active if they are a wolf, and less so when a villager, so it fits.

Unvote wagonlitz
Vote Team Wombat


Now, does this make Wombat a likely wolf. I'm not sure, but consider that at the time Wombat voted, there was a four way tie at three votes each between Chilldude, Dedonus, Panzer, and hdk. Potentially Wombat might have even thought it was a five way tie also including Yvanoff if he hadn't seen Dedonus' switch from Yvanoff to Lief just prior to his vote. With possibly only seven minutes to deadline, a wolf trying to push up one candidate from that close race to protect a packmate is very possible. This could be any of those at three votes, or even some at two or one, Lief in particular was getting rising attention and Wombat explicitly pushed back against the Lief push. Many possible suspects he could be protecting.

It's not really relevant at this point, is it? Going after the people who move the vote rather than whatever frontrunner might not or might not have been protected usually yields better results, if only because you spread the information out further.

I really can't argue with that. I keep the village ahead of the game, and if you can't see that all I can say is you will.

I don't see it. I mean, sure, it would tell us a lot about the players involved in the lynch, but ..odds are also pretty high you get two dead villagers for the price of one, and is it really worth that?

Priestly scan

Finally. Thank you.

Your read of my posts is largely on the nose. I am always trying to prompt action, as the village bullshitter

Fixed. :cool:
Seriously though, I appreciate the whole "Let's try to maximise information" thing, but at the same time you are being quite a good scapegoat on top of being a really good suspect.

You missed one thing in your analysis. I specifically called out chilldude 50 minutes before deadline before my vote on him (see below for link), saw the little green thing indicating that he was online, and jumped to the onclusion that he was dodging my question.

Ah, that does explain something.
Though green checkmark doesn't necessarily mean he was reading *this* thread, or even that he was online for longer than a second or two ..

Randakar was the 3rd vote on chilldude (third vote on the first day essentially cements players and lynch contenders), didn't respond to the summons both of us got before deadline indicating chilldude was a villager (admittedly, deadline is terrible for him), and I really dislike his vote on Wagonlitz, who is contributing this game and who attempted a voteswitch off two known villagers. I'm parking my vote on randy for now.

I actually thought I was the fourth. Not sure, though. Don't really care that much, I had to vote someone and most cases were pretty weak.

Depending on when said third party reached out then randy would have had no chance of seeing jt, though.
Deadline is 1 AM Europe time, so no European player can be expected on for the last 2 to 3 hours before deadline.

I only saw it when I woke up this morning, way after the deadline.

Randakar's been too defensive about Caillean imo, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he isn't just openly packing in public.

Well, I do have this tendency to defend my girlfriend .. dunno why.
But I know her quite well, don't expect her to say much this early in the game. She will probably start talking in a day or two though.
 
Responding to Euro's post at the top of this page (I really should have posted elsewhere during the year off to get rid of the spam filter, I know).

Yeah, that all makes sense. I didn't vote you out of a high degree of suspicion, since at the moment I have no high suspicions of anyone, but simply wanted you to be more clear about your scan, which you have now done. I will likely unvote you, but I'm working on seeing if there's anyone worth switching onto.
 
@randakar you don't have to protect me, I'm your girlfriend, not your packmate, so no protection needed.

Although i must admit, most of you know much more about each other than I know about you, so a day 1 that's out of character suspicion is not what you can expect from me. Later in the game I hope I can analyse a lot more and say much more useful stuff. So some time would be nice.

And on my vote, the tie-snipe really didn't make sense to me, they were both to easy targets to be a pack member so the tie was really only killing an extra villager and try to get away with it. I know it's not original and he already has lots of votes, but for me Euro feels like an obvious baddie. And I prefer to lynch the one I suspect most, even if it feels like a little bandwagon.

Vote Euro
 
@EUROO7

Third party message, 7 minutes before deadline:

"Chilldude74 might be a zombie, but he is also a villager. Please unvote him."

Me, 7 minutes before deadline.

"Interesting. Will keep in mind." I unvoted Chilldude.

Me - 1 minute after deadline

"freaking EURO"

I will confirm here that this is accurate.

4 hours until the deadline. I will also ask the crowd if moving the deadline up an hour (6 pm EST) would be preferrable for everyone, especially our European freinds.

If you make it earlier I might be tempted to try and make it and that would be terrible for my health. So .. ehm ..

FWIW, I've been getting baddie vibes from you as well. MAW has been active and caught that EURO hadn't revealed his scan type yet, so the activity argument is strange.

What exactly is it that triggers you with him? Too far off the mark, lazyness, or what?
 
@randakar you don't have to protect me, I'm your girlfriend, not your packmate, so no protection needed.
It's payback for you getting him drunk all through that one game...

Anyway, I think there's a bunch of reasonable cases here, but the guy who most pings my wolfdar is Grimlock. Taking EURO out of the TIE yesterday, then being the first on him today... I don't know, something smells fishy.

vote Grimlock
 
@randakar you don't have to protect me, I'm your girlfriend, not your packmate, so no protection needed.

Duly noted :)
Wasn't really trying to though. Just giving people some insight into what they're dealing with when it comes to you.
 
Vote Count:

EUROO7: 5

CaptainGrimlock [290]
liefwarrior [293]
HistoryDude [294]
MAWofDoom [307]
Caillean [335]

Team Wombat: 3

Euro [313]
Aedan [314]
Randakar [Wagonlitz 302 -> 333]

Culann: 2

Yakman [284]
Wagonlitz [305]

CaptainGrimlock: 2

Dedonus [310]
Arkasas [337]

MAWofDoom: 2

Alxeu [308]
PanzerCorps [329]

Eternaly_Lost: 1

Culann [285]

Johho: 1

Marty99 [300]

crn7000: 1

Ironhide G1 [304]

Randakar: 1
Team Wombat [322]

Not Voted:

@johho888 [Culann 282 > no vote 297]
@crn7000
@nepechri
@the_hdk
 
Unfortunately couldn't be super active today. I'm not going to vote yet (I'll vote by the deadline), as I still need time to really view how people are acting, but so far from what I can see none of the wolf candidates really have a concrete case