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Dev Diary #130 – Wards and Wardens - The Vision

Hello all!

It's been a few weeks since we spoke but it feels like longer, what with all of you having been busy traveling, touring, tournamenting and the rest! It is time for us, nonetheless, to leave behind that world for now and take a look ahead at what we have coming up next.


Vision

Our first Event Pack, Friends & Foes, gave us something of a chance to experiment. Since then, we’ve had the chance to take a look at exactly what direction we want to start moving in with these packs, and build on what worked.

One area that we hit upon was diversity of content and how the player experienced the game. Events are the ink that we daub on to the fabric of the narrative, but it’s how, what and why these events happen that govern their efficacy. Introducing new avenues for that content to reach the player is a great thing, provided it’s done in an unobtrusive way.

With that in mind, we’re going to outline a few of the new features that you’ll find in Wards & Wardens (the event-pack that you voted for last January) and its accompanying patch - both available on August 22nd. Some of them we’ll talk about more in the future, so don’t expect anything too exhaustive here, but let’s start off with…


Captivating features

Hostages aren’t quite what you’d think of when you hear the term. Rather than forced holding of a person to ransom, hostageship in the Middle Ages was a political and legal status that was absolutely widespread.

Put simply, hostages were generally given, not taken. They were, essentially, transactional guarantees. In this case, we’ve zeroed in on the most common reason for hostages to be exchanged: as a means to guarantee a peace treaty.

In Wards & Wardens, hostages are a new type of relation somewhere between a prisoner and a foreign court guest. They reside at your court as a guest would, but cannot leave of their own accord, nor can they become knights. They are generally - though not always - children, and have found themselves in such a predicament due to their liege exchanging them away as a guarantee of non-hostility following a war, or exchanged via interaction during peacetime. Such an arrangement not only eases the mediation process, but also gives both sides some peace of mind.

hostage_window.png


Hostages are essentially living non-aggression pacts. Harming a hostage is a significant diplomatic incident, but it’s also a way to deter your former enemies from getting any more bright ideas about exactly to whom that border county belongs. Any ruler that you have a hostage from will suffer significant debuffs and penalties should they try and attack you - and any wardens attacking home courts also suffer similar debuffs - so hostages present one of the strongest forms of deterrent possible.

The hostages themselves are kept in line via something else new and shiny:


In Perpetuity

We have two types of Hook extant in the game already: Strong and Weak. The latter are the type of hooks you’d get if you were to, for example, manipulate a person in some way. They are single-use, and can be refused at cost. Strong hooks, on the other hand, can be used multiple times and in a range of scenarios, but are also much rarer.

Perpetual Hooks are a new sort of hook, which wardens can get on hostages who they treat well, and represent something of a middle ground. They are refuseable like Weak hooks, but also permanent like a Strong hook. At the moment hostages (and those that have previously been hostages) are the only characters you’d expect to see with a Perpetual hook, but just as Memories were built with expansion in mind for Friends & Foes, so too should you not be surprised if in the future you find more and wider examples of Perpetual hook usage.


What An Odd Fellow!

One of the spots that we’ve been somewhat hamstrung by in CKIII is in mediating the existence of characters that don’t quite… fit the mould, as it were.

eccentric_trait.png


In CKII, you’d have insane and possessed characters who did all kinds of wacky things - immortal horse chancellors and such; you know how it goes. CKIII’s takes a more grounded approach to how traits are represented: Lunatic, for example, was used increasingly loosely in CKII, ending up as an umbrella for anything ranging from slightly kooky to genuine mental illness, but CKIII sticks much more rigidly to the latter.

This is where the Eccentric trait comes in, as a trait dedicated to the slightly odd. This allows us to group some of the more unusual situations you’d find under this new personality trait, giving them both more reason to happen for a certain character but, critically, also barring those characters who wouldn’t engage in such strange distractions from doing so. We’ll talk about this more in the coming weeks!


A Midwife Crisis

As you might expect given how hostageship skews very much towards the young, a fair percentage of what we’ve been working on has been filling out the experience of non-adult existence in Crusader Kings III. We’ve come some way in this regard since release, with Friends & Foes adding a swathe of new events and a revamp of childhood personality traits, as well as of course the Regency mechanic giving a whole new layer of intrigue to a child navigating the dangerous Medieval world.

In Wards & Wardens, we’ve added to this with another fresh layer of childhood content - in no small part focused on hostages and their experiences - but also the addition of a Wet Nurse court position. Wet nurses held an interesting status amongst the medieval court, and adding this court position adds another layer of intricacy to the trials and tribulations of raising a child.

wet_nurse.png



Mature Students

We have been delighted to read just how much you all have been enjoying all the new - and the old! - activities in CKIII since the release of Tours & Tournaments. With this in mind, we’ve attempted to utilize it to approach something that’s previously been static in Crusader Kings: education as an adult.

university_visit.png


Previously, once you had come of age, an education type and rank was assigned to you and that was that. You, aged 16, were as educated as you’d ever become! Now, whilst properly reflecting the rate at which humans grow as people as they age is something of an impossible task for a game, the current system felt a little too rigid for our liking. As such, the Adult Education activity now gives players a chance to tickle their brains at a center of learning, in hope that they can actually upgrade their education trait to a higher level!

But what of those of us who enter adulthood with the finest education life has to offer? What steps can those people take to better themselves in adulthood?

Worry not. We have a plan for that, too, but it will have to wait!


Goodbye For Now

Thankfully, however, you won’t have to wait all too long. Whilst we’re saying bye for now, next week @Areysak will be taking us through the Adult Education Activity in CKIII from top to bottom. Hope to see you all then!
 
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My personal opinion: I would really like it if personality traits were more relevant in general, so I disagree with the notion that the numbers need to be reduced.
I'd like the personality traits to be more relevant as well, but not at the cost of inflating numbers. More dedicated trait-related events, more AI interactions, deeper integration with culture and religion, ect. would all be welcome.
 
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Really loving the vision of CK3 so far. It feels so dynamic and alive, much more than CK2! (Not a diss, I love CK2.) I saw a dev mentioning something about rebalancing earlier in the thread. Can you expand? I feel like it's easy to stack modifiers and such, especially with T&T. It makes sense to have so many benefits, but I think it should be nerfed a bit.
 
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Really loving the vision of CK3 so far. It feels so dynamic and alive, much more than CK2! (Not a diss, I love CK2.) I saw a dev mentioning something about rebalancing earlier in the thread. Can you expand? I feel like it's easy to stack modifiers and such, especially with T&T. It makes sense to have so many benefits, but I think it should be nerfed a bit.
Agreed. It's gotten a lot better but it is still a bit too easy to stack modifiers to the point of becoming borderline superpowered.
 
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Oh, and one more question that popped into my mind. While it's certainly in-theme for medieval characters to visit universties for a semester or two, is it in-theme for medieval rulers to visit universities? If those guys wanted to improve their education, I would expect them to call up the experts and teachers to their court, not the other way around.
 
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Hello there, this DLC seems like it will be really cool, and I'm particularly interested in these "child development events" that the Wet Nurse position allows.
Will it allow some...course correcting, for those Genius heirs who got terrible luck and were shafted by those Shy/Craven/Paranoid events one too many times?

Also, a bit unrelated but should Villains and Vagabonds or another such enmity based event pack see the light of day, you think it could come with updates to the Feud system?
It's such a great concept but I feel it could really use a dedicated screen clearly showing who's involved, which actions your house is taking and which actions can you take to win/end the feud. I mean, what can my Honest, Just and Diligent character do to help out my house that won't cause an instant Stress Break and will likely fail?
 
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Defensive packs
I see auto-correct loves you the way it loves me! :p -but this typo stirs the imagination. A pack of very well-trained dogs, perhaps? Something for a pets flavor-pack (with a groan for the unintended pun, oy!).
… is it in-theme for medieval rulers to visit universities? If those guys wanted to improve their education, I would expect them to call up the experts and teachers to their court, not the other way around.
For Emperors and Kings maybe,* but probably not for lowly Counts? Either way, it’s baked in already, surely. :)

*edit: and only for Universities within their domain, I expect; if the experts they want to study under already teach at a university in foreign lands, said experts might well refuse the request.
 
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Real question: will the AI be likely to execute hostages in case of betrayal?

And if so, what will prevent the "Here, I will send you my inbred primary heir as a hostage, so you can be sure that me and my genius younger son certainly won't betray you" approaches?
 
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Nothing fundamentally important to the games playability but all nice little additions for sure!

I really like everything offered here. I just wish the parts of this game that keep me from playing it would get a look at sooner than after the next DLC.
 
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Glad to see hostages coming in - I know that there were a fair few of us hoping that this would be a feature alongside this DLC so pleased to see the devs agree!
 
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Rebrand it as "Trials and Tortures", with new methods of execution and torture, and it'll win in a landslide. Preferably with sound effects!
So true!
 
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This is where the Eccentric trait comes in, as a trait dedicated to the slightly odd.
Now I finally feel that I can use the Ruler Designer to reproduce my personality in the game! :p

Also, I can confirm that being eccentric is very stressful.... :(

But more seriously, all these mechanics look awesome! I voted for W&W and to get this as well as Regencies is well. I wish you well as you and your colleagues code and script the hostage AI, which I think will be a fair bit of work for an events pack.

what ARE the metrics for a high proficiency wet nurse? good physical health? traits like strong or athletic? or is it more geared toward being a good substitute parent and educator, intellect traits and the like?

actually i suddenly remembered also the ck2 childbirth event that allowed female rulers to choose to eschew the wetnurse in favour of nursing the child themselves. is there anything geared around that as a concept at all?
The one absolutely essential requirement is that they should have previously had a birth (and my thoughts go out to anyone reading this for whom that is a painful subject). General physical health should help and a health value below a certain level should trigger an event where the wet nurse can be dismissed (or very sad things will happen to the infant...).

The terrible implication of this though is that many wet nurses had to neglect their own child in order to feed their employer's baby. I'm not sure if I really want something that dark in this game, but you might want to think about writing a sensitive event about it.

Using a wet nurse also has health implications for the mother of the newborn. Breastfeeding releases enzymes that act as a natural contraceptive, so (other things being equal) using wet nurses increases the number of pregnancies, which increases maternal mortality (not in each pregnancy, but per mother). This could be included in the game and would make the use of a wet nurse into a more interesting decision (gain court grandeur & more kids vs extending the life of the ruler or their consort). However, this was not widespread knowledge (at least in medieval Europe, which my source was discussing), so it isn't really a decision that medieval rulers were aware they were taking. So I think it would be a bit of a luxury feature TBH. I would understand if you just handwaved it away by saying that having wet nurses was a social expectation that had to be met.

In the screen shots on Steam I have seen events now display which content they are from, is this just for Steam or is this for all events? If so wonderful edition.

Good eye! I believe it should be all platforms and at very least all events for this Event Pack. It's one of the things we noticed people had said a lot in F&F, that they couldn't tell which events were DLC and which weren't. Hopefully this goes some way to addressing that!

Will this feature work for mods too? To display which mod an event is from?

I'm really pleased to see that you're adding an indication of which DLC an event is from. It will help players to see that they're getting value for money. However, I'd be grateful if you could also implement this for mods at well. I'm not a modder but I am a bug reporter and it saves some steps if I at least know what DLC or mod a bugged event is from. A tooltip would be enough.

If we have hostages, wouldn't it be nice if we have feuds and vendettas? For example you killed the son of a noble and his family becomes your feud. Over decades you have certain events and wars to get rid of them or asume peace.
Maybe with villians and vagabonds...
You're going to really like the Friends & Foes event pack....
This DD seems... really detailed for such an early look (a little more than 2 months away). I trust we also will have free patch content to look forward to in the coming weeks, or will there be a pause in the DDs?
There is no pleasing some people..... People complained when there were no DDs until shortly before T&T. Now someone is complaining about DDs being too early or not having breaks.

I guess it matters to you but to me it just seems the most inconsequential thing.
Will there be a beta oppurtunity? Would love to have my better AI esutcation mods on steam updated at release day and from the looks of it this update will modify the education files so beta access would be very nice have in this case.
The beta programme is advertised on the forum from time to time. The modders of the very largest modders are also given early access, but I doubt that asking for it will make you more likely to get it unless you're also a big mod. But I could be wrong.
 
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With time, amount of events per month has grown. And will grow with more expansion1s1/event packs added.

Do you have plans for adjustable setting for saturation of events?
 
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With time, amount of events per month has grown. And will grow with more expansion1s1/event packs added.

Do you have plans for adjustable setting for saturation of events?
Yes please! The event spam is way too much. At the very least, we need QoL features to control if/when they pop-up and obscure the game.
 
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Any chance to add pages and squires? Maybe as a way to groom commoners into some sort of junior nobility via martial training and loyalty.

What about having a plot where you get the option to frame others?
 
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With time, amount of events per month has grown. And will grow with more expansion1s1/event packs added.

Do you have plans for adjustable setting for saturation of events?
This isn’t necessarily the case. Events generally trigger from pulses. Adding events to a pulse does not make it fire more often, it only increases the pool of what could happen when the pulse fires :)
In other words, event frequency is disconnected from the amount of events added to the game.

Then there’s things like Toto where events are pushed out by activities that you choose to attend yourself - with general pulses being blocked as you travel to them. This is also why traveling comes at a bit of an opportunity cost since you’re no longer getting lifestyle xp events at all when you’re traveling (a bit countered now by points of interest).
 
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Is Eccentric DLC-locked. Seems like a trait that could be relevant for stuff from outside this DLC as well.
 
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Looking forward to "adult education", but I hope it extends beyond just university. It always got my goat that 'optimal' play, in theory, was 1. Live to 100, 2. Die the day after your heir's 16th birthday. I can't help but think someone coming to the throne at age 30-40, having had decades as an adult learning from the king, would have a huge advantage, and I feel like the initial advantage in lifestyle perks doesn't quite cut it. They also usually had "job experience" doing various tasks for the kingdom. It would be nice if these little things had an effect on how effective 'older kings' can be to younger ones.

Edit: and also, if we could do something about my heir only having 2 children because he's unlanded, that'd be nice.
 
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