Dev Diary #132 – Eccentricity & Adoption

[MahoganySpitfire]

These both seem like good additions to the game. But I do think a Game Rule is a better way of turning off content that some players don't want. If my heir becomes Eccentric I now have to choose between breaking roleplay and getting Pants Act events I don't want.

We need a renowned diplomat to ease the tensions between those of us who want to occasionally have a harmless laugh, and those who insist on only prim and proper conduct during video games... And as we all know, there is only one with such magnificent diplomatic skill, in all the world of Crusader Kings...

We need...

 

[KreugerIV]

The released and teased content this year has been great! Thanks and keep up the good work.

 

[Inspecta]

Some notes:
Julius Caesar adopted Octavian Augustus as his son (while Julius was his great-uncle) while Octavian was already 19. So I think that Roman and Greek cultures should have a special tradition, that despite the rules would allow to adopt people more often and those who are being adopted are allowed to be adults.

Also, for the adoption in general, there should be an event that when ruler goes through his city, he stumbles upon child street urchin chased by the guard and has option to adopt him, let him go or let him being punished.

Also, I think that adopted children would be seen as less ligitimate heirs then actually blood related heirs, so adopted ones should have a special status like legitimatimized bastards, that would have opinion impact of the traditionalists in your court.

 

[apollo1989vieten]

Ludwig "the mad" would definitely fit under the eccentric category.

 

[MahoganySpitfire]

Some notes:
Julius Caesar adopted Octavian Augustus as his son (while Julius was his great-uncle) while Octavian was already 19. So I think that Roman and Greek cultures should have a special tradition, that despite the rules would allow to adopt people more often and those who are being adopted are allowed to be adults.

Also, for the adoption in general, there should be an event that when ruler goes through his city, he stumbles upon child street urchin chased by the guard and has option to adopt him, let him go or let him being punished.

Also, I think that adopted children would be seen as less ligitimate heirs then actually blood related heirs, so adopted ones should have a special status like legitimatimized bastards, that would have opinion impact of the traditionalists in your court.

Again, perhaps with the exception of Roman and Greek cultures... Where adoption and grooming of specific heirs, based on merit (or just preference, whims, whatever) was an accepted and normal practice... So any opinion penalties there could, perhaps, not exist at all... And possibly there could even be some advantages for specifically groomed nominated heirs when they ascend to the throne...?

 

[Fierabras]

Will the Armenians have the Noble Adoption tradition? After all, the adoption of the (adult) Baldwin of Boulogne by Thoros of Marash played a large role in the establishment of the County of Edessa, and is a well-known example of adoption happening during the game's timeframe.

 

[Mindel]

The game already has a behind-the-scenes "real" father, and a "real" mother has been introduced for adoption. "Real" in CK terms refers to a child's biological lineage and it doesn't show up on the family tree except in the case of bastardry and such.

Which entry gets changed by that intrigue event where a child's father gets rewritten, the real father or the effective father?

 

[Dualninja]

Will it also be possible for childless rulers to adopt adults as a matter of succession formality, as was sometimes done by the Byzantines?
I believe good ol' Emperor Basil in 867 start was actually formally adopted by his predecessor Michael as part of a convoluted series of succession shenanigans.

Don't forget Caesar (Octavian) Augustus being adopted by Julius Caesar. Although he was his grand nephew already.

 

[BrotherJonathan]

Also hopefully this will finally stop the constant community bickering over "silly" events.

 

[fodazd]

Which entry gets changed by that intrigue event where a child's father gets rewritten, the real father or the effective father?

As it is right now, it overwrites the "real" (biological) father, which is the main reason I don't like it. The game currently cannot portray an *incorrect* suspicion of parentage, so it just overwrites the biological father of a character in order to generate that suspicion, with all the plausibility problems that come with that.

 

[Darsara]

They must not be within the realm of someone of their dynasty. Technically it could be possible if they have a great grandchild who has ended up in some distant realm, but that is somewhat unlikely. I'll toss the concern over to QA.

'Distant' kin seem to have a real habit of wandering, so it might not be that hard

 

[Werther]

In order for the AI to even consider adopting, they must have less than 2 children, and either be infertile themselves or have no fertile consorts (same-sex spouses are not considered fertile). So they will adopt if the chance of producing a legitimate heir is very low.

This is why I'm torn about adoption not being restricted by culture. I really really want to enable adoption so Byzantines or other civ which adopt can do it... But I know that the first time I will see a infertile Capetian King adopt a random guy to be king of France instead of letting his cousin wear the Crown, I will cringe and my immersion will explode.

 

[cavveman]

What about adopting a lowborn? Many times don't have parents.

 

[Anonymous01]

I love this in the sense that it provides more player choice and agency.

But I hate it in the sense that CK developers always use "it's a dynasty game" as the reason for refusing to make unlanded play at least moddable. While adoption has historicity, it blatantly skirts the dynasty game.

 

[MahoganySpitfire]

Also hopefully this will finally stop the constant community bickering over "silly" events.

I think... It will not.

It is a shame, I think. In my view some people are assuming that Medieval times were humorless, and everyone was a stuck-up prude... Whereas, no. Not really. People told jokes, enjoyed comedic performances, and laughed about farts and poo.

Though I guess, to be fair, there were grim humorless people back then also. Those people probably had similar arguments with people who enjoyed the japes of the jesters and troubadours of the age, to what we are having now.

 

[MahoganySpitfire]

This is why I'm torn about adoption not being restricted by culture. I really really want to enable adoption so Byzantines or other civ which adopt can do it... But I know that the first time I will see a infertile Capetian King adopt a random guy to be king of France instead of letting his cousin wear the Crown, I will cringe and my immersion will explode.

But...

That, um, happened.

It's outside the era of CK, but for an obvious example, Charles XIII of Sweden adopted two unrelated male nobles as sons, as he had no legitimate heir (son)... Even though of course he had a plethora of cousins, and also an illegitimate son... Instead he and the Swedes ended up asking Jean Bernadotte (a Marshal of the Napoleonic French, and previously a very minor noble) to be his heir... Totally unrelated to him... And they picked him because, uhhh, he had treated some Swedish prisoners of war respectfully... And some random Swedish baron went "Hey come be our King!"... And he said "Yeah OK...?" Then the Swedes arrested the Baron for just doing that on his own initiative... But gradually they came around to the idea anyway... Bernadotte was of course still one of Napoleon's Marshals, so Napoleon was all "What the hell?", and he thought it was silly, but eventually he also decided "OK I guess...? Go for it..." [profanity moderated out]

So it happened.

And to this day, the house of Bernadotte occupies the Swedish throne.

I am sure there are other examples of similar shenanigans happening in the Medieval era too.

 

[Gobla]

It depends entirely on the event. If the event is about someone else acting strange, then it checks their traits. If it's about you acting strange or something strange happening to you, it happens to you. Perhaps wild wasteland was a bad example, it really is most similar to CK2 lunacy.

I don't agree that game rules are the answer for events of a specific tone that some people on our forums don't like. If we did that, we'd end up with game rules for just about all the different types of content we have since each player has their own idea of what kind of content they do and don't want to see. If you don't want to see eccentric content, simply make sure your heir doesn't become eccentric.

These answers seem to contradict each other.

Is the eccentric trait an explanation for characters acting silly as the above answer to my post says, meaning that even if your character isn't eccentric you will still see eccentric events due to other eccentric characters?

Or is it a gate to eccentric events as the blog post and the second answer seem to imply where if you make sure to educate your heir to not have that trait then you won't see eccentric events?

 

[tsr-aph]

Children can be adopted as long as: they're not a ruler, they're not in prison or otherwise unavailable, nobody in their family is a ruler, they're not already part of your house, and they're not in the realm of someone of their dynasty.

So, the neighbouring kingdom is down on its luck and has reached a dynastic dead-end. The heir is a 10-year-old child who is second-cousin-once-removed on a female branch, so is of a different dynasty. I can adopt that child, make them my heir and inherit all of those lands when the decrepit king next door dies? That seems a little OP TBH. I'd much rather you be able to adopt a vassal's son and heir than even the fourth-in-line to a kingdom. If you are going to do this, you need to massively lockdown heirs from wondering/leaving court.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Adoption​

Now onto the next feature of this diary and one that's quite exciting to me personally is the Adoption interaction! Now many many patches ago we introduced the Same-Sex marriage rule and ever since then it's just kind of been there and we've yet to introduce a way to actually make same-sex play… well, playable.

Who can adopt?​

Under the default game rules, Adoption is available to characters who are in a same-sex marriage, the childless and elderly/infertile, and Compassionate characters. Compassionate has long been a bit of a weak trait to have, so it's nice to give them a powerful way to secure succession and bring talented orphans into the family.

Who can be adopted?​

Children can be adopted as long as: they're not a ruler, they're not in prison or otherwise unavailable, nobody in their family is a ruler, they're not already part of your house, and they're not in the realm of someone of their dynasty. This does mean you're technically allowed to adopt noble children, and children whose parents are still alive, but they are highly reluctant to accept adoption in those circumstances.

So with this there's no ability to adopt your cousin or nephew as your heir?

It might be niche, but I'd want adoption to allow me to adopt a nephew or niece (and thus keep the succession in the bloodline) more easily than some random lowborn nobody. Or I might want to adopt a grandson to bypass an unsuitable second or third heir (Infirm, Insane, Crippled, Wrong Faith/Culture, childless and infertile etc).

 

[Wayofwisdom]

Adoption is something I love, so this is a welcome addition to the game. Definitely going to get those lowborn kids some extra love.

Also I like the new child and horse event. Keep up the good work.