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Tinto Talks #14 - 29th of May 2024

Welcome everyone to where we talk about our completely secret, not yet announced game. In today's Tinto Talks we will delve into a completely new feature.

A small reminder, this is very much a WiP, and nothing is final.

The core of this system was one of the first things I designed back in the spring of 2020, a feature that could be described as both a narrative and mechanical guide for the game. This is something that has been inspired by the Incident System from EU4, and also by the International Crisis mechanic of Victoria 2, but it is not really like any of those.

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Today is when we introduce our new Situation System.

So what is a “Situation” then? Good question. You could describe it as content that involves multiple countries over a period of time. In Project Caesar, we are using this feature to create a historical narrative that creates different experiences, as our goal is to have an immersive and varied experience for the player.

A Situation can have unique actions, events that trigger, and other types of unique content, and each of them will have its own UI and mapmode.

If a situation may involve or affect you, it will show with an alert, in the new color of purple!

Let's take a look at some of the situations we have in the game right now.

Black Death
This was the first situation we created, and it has been going through many revisions during the last four years.

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Black death can be 1346, random or off, and origin can be historical or random.

Usually, it will happen from 1346, as the Bubonic Plague appears somewhere in Central Asia and starts spreading through the old world, killing 40-60% of the population of the affected areas.

It spreads through adjacencies, moving armies, or through trade. There are ways you can attempt to alleviate this, but the efficiency of it is low, and the cost is high. You can try to isolate your court, expel the sick, blame minorities, and other very efficient ways to deal with the problem.

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Slowly spreading centrally, but some traders have already taken it into Italy...


Italian Wars
In the Age of Discovery, this is probably the most important situation for anyone in Western Europe. It is about control over Italy and will happen as soon as a French or Iberian Major Power or the Emperor declares war on an Italian Power.


There will be up to six different leagues that will fight over control of Italy. There is a French league, an Iberian league, the Emperor's league, and up to 3 Italian leagues. The first two will dynamically select their leaders based on strength calculations.

If one league gets hegemony over Italy, i.e. owning over 60% of the region either through conquest or diplomacy, then they will win. The Italians can also win by making sure the foreign leagues are destroyed through a special peace deal.

Leagues can be abandoned and anyone owning locations in Italy can join one of them.

The situation allows enemies and rivals of foreign league leaders to intervene and assist the defending Italians and it also grants access to unique interactions in order to send aid of any kind, attract cheaper condottieri and even create a new Italian league.

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This is how the situation would look if it fired in 1337 if Austria was to be the Holy Roman Emperor and Aragon was the dominant power in Iberia with vested interests in Italy.

Red Turban Rebellions
This is rather likely to happen as soon as the Yuan Empire ends up at low stability.

It will create an international organization called The Red Turbans, which will get a lot of rebel countries.

The situation can happen to Yuán after 1350 if their stability drops below 25 while also either of their estates is not satisfied. The requirements are harsh, but once you reach the Age of Discovery you have avoided the situation.

With that being said, the situation will most likely fire in a playthrough. During this period, the Red Turban Rebels will spawn as an international organization which is in direct opposition to the Huángdì, the Chinese emperor. While the situation is going on, events will pop up that force Yuán to release historical Chinese tags in their historical order (so the first Sòng is released, then Wú, then Tiānwán, etc.), which join the IO and immediately declare their own, independent war on Yuan.

Each rebel nation is playable when it spawns, and they can wage war with each other too.

The countries spawned during this situation have a custom loyalty value which describes how, well, loyal they are to Yuán which goes from -100 to 100 and grows or shrinks depending on their opinion of Yuán. Most rebel nations will start at -100 as they actively fought against Yuan. However, some nations spawned through the situation represent the Mongolian generals who gained a lot of autonomy, but were still fighting for Yuán’s cause. They would spawn with +50 Loyalty. If any rebel country reaches more than 0 loyalty, they will automatically leave the Red Turban Rebels IO.

In order to end the situation as Yuán, you have to regain internal stability, but also ensure that the Red Turban Rebels have no members left anymore after 20 years of the start of the situation. All states spawned through the situation with over 50 loyalty will then automatically be annexed by Yuán.

On the other hand, the situation also ends once any rebel tag owns the majority of China (around 70%) of all the locations there. If that happens the rebel tag which fulfills this requirement will assume the Imperial Throne and take over the tag of China.

The situation unlocks special diplomatic actions for Yuán and the rebels alike. Yuán can grant titles to any released state that is not at war with it, giving a significant loyalty and opinion boost in exchange for a hefty fee. They can also negotiate with local rebellions which decreases the process for a rebellion to break out and they can call loyalist countries (those with +50 loyalty) to their wars against the Red Turban Rebels. Meanwhile, the rebel states have a special cb against Yuan and other rebel states with a vastly reduced warscore cost for Chinese locations. They also get access to an action that allows them to rein in a conquered area, greatly reducing the local integration speed.

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Green are your loyal servants, orange are the rebels, red is the strongest of the rebels.

Other situations include things like the Western Schism, the Hundred Years War & Sengoku Jidai. We will talk more about those in future Tinto Talks.

If you have a suggestion of what you think would be an important historical event that should be a situation, then please post them here!

Next week though, we will talk about something that many people have asked for repeatedly.
 
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The system is looking good and flexible enough to simulate a huge number of historical developments that were not possible under the general game mechanics of past games, I ike it.

I have 5 doubts:

There are plans to make "Situations" for India? EU4 was not capable to simulate well the real life historical outcome here, where the 2 main regional powers (Bahmanis and Vijayanagar) both collapsed in smaller states instead of one annexing the other and dominating the penisula. In Project Caesar we will have a situation about Bahmanis and Vijayanagar late?

Manchuria unification and Qing dynasty will be a situation too? Or the game at release will focus exclusively in early game situations?

Ming China will be a thing that happen in more than 50% of games? Or it is a rare outcome? Considering that other rebel states apparently can succeed and form other alternative dynasties.

Hordes collapse in smaller states will be Situations or will use other system more associated with their particular form of government?

Why Taiwan is empty in the map? Work in progress?
 
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I have trouble, however, reconciling this model with the Italian leagues... Since they apparently involve fixed participants, and happen more than 100 years after the start of the game, they look extremely railroaded, and for no good reason. There is no local unit (like an italian kingdom) collapsing.

How is it fixed participants or railroady? Anyone who has land in italy can take part in it. Who wins is not deterministic at all. Don't know, I dont see how its railroady.
 
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Are the situations applicable to other major European conflicts, such as the Seven Years' War or the Northern War (1700-1721), or are similar wars simulated by a system of alliances and coalitions?
I hope not! The Seven Years War has nothing to do with a crisis within an IO/PS. It's a normal war (albeit a quasi-world war) that should be handled by normal mechanics.
 
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For the Italian Wars, what happens if no party wins 70%? I don't think historically any party controlled as much? Not even Spain who had the Duchy of Milan and Naples+ Sicily. Can there not be a kind of whiete peace if Spain gets most of the land whereby they leave Savoy land to france in exchange for finishing the Italian Wars?

What happens if they never finish? Is there a constant war?

All in all the DD does not go deep into how italian wars work. Will there be another DD explaining how it works exactly?
 
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I think anti-Portuguese alliances in the Indian Ocean world during the 16th century would make for some great situations.

Once the Portuguese entered the Indian Ocean there were multiple coordinated attempts to kick them out. First the Venetians convinced the Mamluks to build a fleet and challenge the Portuguese. But more important were the attempts by the Ottomans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman%E2%80%93Portuguese_conflicts_(1538%E2%80%931560)

After conquering Egypt the Ottomans built an Indian Ocean fleet and spent significant resources to aid other Muslim polities like the Gujarati sultanate. The Turks often provided guns and gunners, but also fought the Portuguese directly. Both parties also got roped into the Ethiopia-Adal wars.
The Portuguese presence in the Indian Ocean would prompt the Ottomans to extend diplomatically as far out as Sumatra and support the Sultanate of Aceh.

Speaking of Aceh, they also orchestrated a pan-Asian (both Indian and southeast Asian actors, with some Ottoman support) against Portugal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_League_of_the_Indies
 
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Very interesting!

1. The Sound Tolls for Denmark, which were mentioned previously, would changing these cause a situation to happen, for example, by allowing a coalition to fight against Denmark against this increase in taxes?

2. Would the potential secularization of a country (e.g., the Teutonic Order) be carried out through a situation to allow for neighbouring states to have a say in it (who becomes the ruler, etc)?
 
This isn't exactly related to the tinto talk today but I wanted to ask, is it possible that this games multiplayer will have the automatic resynching that is in hoi4? One of the biggest issues with a lot of paradox titles multiplayer is that whenever someone desynchs you have to wait for them to join back in and often times the entire lobby no longer works and you have to re-host.
 
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How is it fixed participants or railroady? Anyone who has land in italy can take part in it. Who wins is not deterministic at all. Don't know, I dont see how its railroady.
Not anyone who lands in Italy. From what I read, it's limited to France, Spanish and Italians. Returning Normans wouldn't trigger it, nor Hungarians or Albanians. And it's not linked to a previously existing IO/PS, so you can't explain it by an internal crisis. It just happens out of the blue.
 
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Could the long-lasting witch-hunts in central europe, that peaked around the counter-reformation and thirty year war, be considered its own Situation?
Or will you handle these as individual events per country and/or events as part of the thirty years war?
 
Regarding the italian wars and from what other users asked: wouldn't make sense to add to the italian wars another leagues, regarding possible conquest/reconquest by the ottomans/romans. Other option couldn't be to create another situation regarding them and maybe hungary, if the expand west?
 
Would revolutions come under situations or just general mechanics?


Also by random on the Black Death, how random is it? Is it random within the first age, confined to the 1340s or whenever in the game?
 
Could the long-lasting witch-hunts in central europe, that peaked around the counter-reformation and thirty year war, be considered its own Situation?
Or will you handle these as individual events per country and/or events as part of the thirty years war?
They also spread past Europe so I'd say that's a good candidate for a situation.
 
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