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Tinto Talks #14 - 29th of May 2024

Welcome everyone to where we talk about our completely secret, not yet announced game. In today's Tinto Talks we will delve into a completely new feature.

A small reminder, this is very much a WiP, and nothing is final.

The core of this system was one of the first things I designed back in the spring of 2020, a feature that could be described as both a narrative and mechanical guide for the game. This is something that has been inspired by the Incident System from EU4, and also by the International Crisis mechanic of Victoria 2, but it is not really like any of those.

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Today is when we introduce our new Situation System.

So what is a “Situation” then? Good question. You could describe it as content that involves multiple countries over a period of time. In Project Caesar, we are using this feature to create a historical narrative that creates different experiences, as our goal is to have an immersive and varied experience for the player.

A Situation can have unique actions, events that trigger, and other types of unique content, and each of them will have its own UI and mapmode.

If a situation may involve or affect you, it will show with an alert, in the new color of purple!

Let's take a look at some of the situations we have in the game right now.

Black Death
This was the first situation we created, and it has been going through many revisions during the last four years.

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Black death can be 1346, random or off, and origin can be historical or random.

Usually, it will happen from 1346, as the Bubonic Plague appears somewhere in Central Asia and starts spreading through the old world, killing 40-60% of the population of the affected areas.

It spreads through adjacencies, moving armies, or through trade. There are ways you can attempt to alleviate this, but the efficiency of it is low, and the cost is high. You can try to isolate your court, expel the sick, blame minorities, and other very efficient ways to deal with the problem.

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Slowly spreading centrally, but some traders have already taken it into Italy...


Italian Wars
In the Age of Discovery, this is probably the most important situation for anyone in Western Europe. It is about control over Italy and will happen as soon as a French or Iberian Major Power or the Emperor declares war on an Italian Power.


There will be up to six different leagues that will fight over control of Italy. There is a French league, an Iberian league, the Emperor's league, and up to 3 Italian leagues. The first two will dynamically select their leaders based on strength calculations.

If one league gets hegemony over Italy, i.e. owning over 60% of the region either through conquest or diplomacy, then they will win. The Italians can also win by making sure the foreign leagues are destroyed through a special peace deal.

Leagues can be abandoned and anyone owning locations in Italy can join one of them.

The situation allows enemies and rivals of foreign league leaders to intervene and assist the defending Italians and it also grants access to unique interactions in order to send aid of any kind, attract cheaper condottieri and even create a new Italian league.

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This is how the situation would look if it fired in 1337 if Austria was to be the Holy Roman Emperor and Aragon was the dominant power in Iberia with vested interests in Italy.

Red Turban Rebellions
This is rather likely to happen as soon as the Yuan Empire ends up at low stability.

It will create an international organization called The Red Turbans, which will get a lot of rebel countries.

The situation can happen to Yuán after 1350 if their stability drops below 25 while also either of their estates is not satisfied. The requirements are harsh, but once you reach the Age of Discovery you have avoided the situation.

With that being said, the situation will most likely fire in a playthrough. During this period, the Red Turban Rebels will spawn as an international organization which is in direct opposition to the Huángdì, the Chinese emperor. While the situation is going on, events will pop up that force Yuán to release historical Chinese tags in their historical order (so the first Sòng is released, then Wú, then Tiānwán, etc.), which join the IO and immediately declare their own, independent war on Yuan.

Each rebel nation is playable when it spawns, and they can wage war with each other too.

The countries spawned during this situation have a custom loyalty value which describes how, well, loyal they are to Yuán which goes from -100 to 100 and grows or shrinks depending on their opinion of Yuán. Most rebel nations will start at -100 as they actively fought against Yuan. However, some nations spawned through the situation represent the Mongolian generals who gained a lot of autonomy, but were still fighting for Yuán’s cause. They would spawn with +50 Loyalty. If any rebel country reaches more than 0 loyalty, they will automatically leave the Red Turban Rebels IO.

In order to end the situation as Yuán, you have to regain internal stability, but also ensure that the Red Turban Rebels have no members left anymore after 20 years of the start of the situation. All states spawned through the situation with over 50 loyalty will then automatically be annexed by Yuán.

On the other hand, the situation also ends once any rebel tag owns the majority of China (around 70%) of all the locations there. If that happens the rebel tag which fulfills this requirement will assume the Imperial Throne and take over the tag of China.

The situation unlocks special diplomatic actions for Yuán and the rebels alike. Yuán can grant titles to any released state that is not at war with it, giving a significant loyalty and opinion boost in exchange for a hefty fee. They can also negotiate with local rebellions which decreases the process for a rebellion to break out and they can call loyalist countries (those with +50 loyalty) to their wars against the Red Turban Rebels. Meanwhile, the rebel states have a special cb against Yuan and other rebel states with a vastly reduced warscore cost for Chinese locations. They also get access to an action that allows them to rein in a conquered area, greatly reducing the local integration speed.

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Green are your loyal servants, orange are the rebels, red is the strongest of the rebels.

Other situations include things like the Western Schism, the Hundred Years War & Sengoku Jidai. We will talk more about those in future Tinto Talks.

If you have a suggestion of what you think would be an important historical event that should be a situation, then please post them here!

Next week though, we will talk about something that many people have asked for repeatedly.
 
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we got multiple types of diseases so yes
I assume that includes some depiction of the Columbian Exchange introducing Old World diseases to the New World, right? Do you have specific plans on how to model the fact that certain populations (basically, Afro-Eurasians) had much better defense against the diseases in question than the populations in the New World? At first glance, that would presumably mean 'Castillian pops don't suffer the penalties, but Nahuatl pops do.' That said, I'm concerned that the solution would be 'assimilate the natives to your culture.'

Speaking of the Age of Exploration and everything that goes with that... would the economic impacts of the global precious metals trade count for a Situation? You've got the crazy inflation in Spain, the adoption of silver currency in China (to such an extent that it was a major contributor of the Opium Wars, centuries later), etc.

Also, I'm not sure it would call for a situation, but the diffusion of the different agricultural packages from Old and New Worlds to each other would be great to model some way.
 
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Also, people, remember when we would go crazy over little scrap of the map?
Right? We got almost all of East Asia and Middle East and Europe now. I still want to see the rest eagerly though
 
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Situation System is good

But the conditions of Red Turban is shitty, Red Turban is triggered by natural disaster and dissatisfaction of Han ethnity to Mongols and the Millennialism. So you must to make the spread of Chinese Folk Religion to simulate the Millennialism.

Estate is not satisfied ? Do you mean the Mongolian Nobles wear Red Turban and rebel their Master?

Second, Japan had divided to two parts, the Southern and Northern Court in 1336, but why the Shogun still untied the western Japan in 1337?

Third, some Jurchen tribes is good, but why Girin and Heilongjiang not have any tribes??? It's another joke?
Maybe you could be less aggressive but I agree yeah
 
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So will the plagues affecting America from the colonist's also be a situation?

I take this quote as stating that it will be a situation
Immersion and narrative, as it was FAR more impactful than a normal disease. Columbian Exchange is another, which is far more impactful.

We do have a generic disease system as well.
 
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Is there content for the formation of the Kalmar Union? Maybe DHE? Or would something like that just happen generically through succession mechanics?
 
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The Italian wars seem like they'll be awesome,, could you change the Emperor's league colour tho so it's not so similar to that of the impassable terrain's? It'll definitely get confusing when they get small bits of land along the alps
 
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Johan can you say culture groups will change? Culture group of turks were wrong in the eu4. Whats the point of making belong the Turks in Anatolia as Levantine and those further east as Iranian. I'm sorry, but this just means that the creators of the game didnt care about these things. Turks should be belong to same culture group.
Turks adopted culture of the civilisations they conquered. those in the east were iranian for sure
here is the mughal monarchs . do you see any turkish ? what i see is Kushan , a blend of persian and north west indian.
if turks kept their culture the ottomans wouldnt be european style but would remain like the central asian nomads. this is why turks belong to various families of cultures
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No disrespect to the devs, but I think it's the safer choice to focus on situations from actual history that people are familiar with, than come up with a large amount of fantasy situations that are valid in certain circumstances.

Agree 100%.

Players want to see an Ottoman Empire, and strong Russia, and want to experience the Reformation and Wars of Religion.

Playerswant THEIR choices to change history.


I've been doing these games for 25+ years now, and many times I've been suckered in by "we can simulate everything, we don't need narrative guidelines" only for game launches to be rocky, and having to readjust and making sure historical narratives are happening often enough.
 
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I assume that includes some depiction of the Columbian Exchange introducing Old World diseases to the New World, right? Do you have specific plans on how to model the fact that certain populations (basically, Afro-Eurasians) had much better defense against the diseases in question than the populations in the New World? At first glance, that would presumably mean 'Castillian pops don't suffer the penalties, but Nahuatl pops do.' That said, I'm concerned that the solution would be 'assimilate the natives to your culture.'

Speaking of the Age of Exploration and everything that goes with that... would the economic impacts of the global precious metals trade count for a Situation? You've got the crazy inflation in Spain, the adoption of silver currency in China (to such an extent that it was a major contributor of the Opium Wars, centuries later), etc.

Also, I'm not sure it would call for a situation, but the diffusion of the different agricultural packages from Old and New Worlds to each other would be great to model some way.

The Columbian Exchange was mention in this quote
Immersion and narrative, as it was FAR more impactful than a normal disease. Columbian Exchange is another, which is far more impactful.

We do have a generic disease system as well.

Can people at least look at the dev responses?
 
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Agree 100%.

Players want to see an Ottoman Empire, and strong Russia, and want to experience the Reformation and Wars of Religion.

Playerswant THEIR choices to change history.


I've been doing these games for 25+ years now, and many times I've been suckered in by "we can simulate everything, we don't need narrative guidelines" only for game launches to be rocky, and having to readjust and making sure historical narratives are happening often enough.
Is that an implication that players will be able to do a close to historical run if they so wish?