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Tinto Talks #14 - 29th of May 2024

Welcome everyone to where we talk about our completely secret, not yet announced game. In today's Tinto Talks we will delve into a completely new feature.

A small reminder, this is very much a WiP, and nothing is final.

The core of this system was one of the first things I designed back in the spring of 2020, a feature that could be described as both a narrative and mechanical guide for the game. This is something that has been inspired by the Incident System from EU4, and also by the International Crisis mechanic of Victoria 2, but it is not really like any of those.

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Today is when we introduce our new Situation System.

So what is a “Situation” then? Good question. You could describe it as content that involves multiple countries over a period of time. In Project Caesar, we are using this feature to create a historical narrative that creates different experiences, as our goal is to have an immersive and varied experience for the player.

A Situation can have unique actions, events that trigger, and other types of unique content, and each of them will have its own UI and mapmode.

If a situation may involve or affect you, it will show with an alert, in the new color of purple!

Let's take a look at some of the situations we have in the game right now.

Black Death
This was the first situation we created, and it has been going through many revisions during the last four years.

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Black death can be 1346, random or off, and origin can be historical or random.

Usually, it will happen from 1346, as the Bubonic Plague appears somewhere in Central Asia and starts spreading through the old world, killing 40-60% of the population of the affected areas.

It spreads through adjacencies, moving armies, or through trade. There are ways you can attempt to alleviate this, but the efficiency of it is low, and the cost is high. You can try to isolate your court, expel the sick, blame minorities, and other very efficient ways to deal with the problem.

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Slowly spreading centrally, but some traders have already taken it into Italy...


Italian Wars
In the Age of Discovery, this is probably the most important situation for anyone in Western Europe. It is about control over Italy and will happen as soon as a French or Iberian Major Power or the Emperor declares war on an Italian Power.


There will be up to six different leagues that will fight over control of Italy. There is a French league, an Iberian league, the Emperor's league, and up to 3 Italian leagues. The first two will dynamically select their leaders based on strength calculations.

If one league gets hegemony over Italy, i.e. owning over 60% of the region either through conquest or diplomacy, then they will win. The Italians can also win by making sure the foreign leagues are destroyed through a special peace deal.

Leagues can be abandoned and anyone owning locations in Italy can join one of them.

The situation allows enemies and rivals of foreign league leaders to intervene and assist the defending Italians and it also grants access to unique interactions in order to send aid of any kind, attract cheaper condottieri and even create a new Italian league.

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This is how the situation would look if it fired in 1337 if Austria was to be the Holy Roman Emperor and Aragon was the dominant power in Iberia with vested interests in Italy.

Red Turban Rebellions
This is rather likely to happen as soon as the Yuan Empire ends up at low stability.

It will create an international organization called The Red Turbans, which will get a lot of rebel countries.

The situation can happen to Yuán after 1350 if their stability drops below 25 while also either of their estates is not satisfied. The requirements are harsh, but once you reach the Age of Discovery you have avoided the situation.

With that being said, the situation will most likely fire in a playthrough. During this period, the Red Turban Rebels will spawn as an international organization which is in direct opposition to the Huángdì, the Chinese emperor. While the situation is going on, events will pop up that force Yuán to release historical Chinese tags in their historical order (so the first Sòng is released, then Wú, then Tiānwán, etc.), which join the IO and immediately declare their own, independent war on Yuan.

Each rebel nation is playable when it spawns, and they can wage war with each other too.

The countries spawned during this situation have a custom loyalty value which describes how, well, loyal they are to Yuán which goes from -100 to 100 and grows or shrinks depending on their opinion of Yuán. Most rebel nations will start at -100 as they actively fought against Yuan. However, some nations spawned through the situation represent the Mongolian generals who gained a lot of autonomy, but were still fighting for Yuán’s cause. They would spawn with +50 Loyalty. If any rebel country reaches more than 0 loyalty, they will automatically leave the Red Turban Rebels IO.

In order to end the situation as Yuán, you have to regain internal stability, but also ensure that the Red Turban Rebels have no members left anymore after 20 years of the start of the situation. All states spawned through the situation with over 50 loyalty will then automatically be annexed by Yuán.

On the other hand, the situation also ends once any rebel tag owns the majority of China (around 70%) of all the locations there. If that happens the rebel tag which fulfills this requirement will assume the Imperial Throne and take over the tag of China.

The situation unlocks special diplomatic actions for Yuán and the rebels alike. Yuán can grant titles to any released state that is not at war with it, giving a significant loyalty and opinion boost in exchange for a hefty fee. They can also negotiate with local rebellions which decreases the process for a rebellion to break out and they can call loyalist countries (those with +50 loyalty) to their wars against the Red Turban Rebels. Meanwhile, the rebel states have a special cb against Yuan and other rebel states with a vastly reduced warscore cost for Chinese locations. They also get access to an action that allows them to rein in a conquered area, greatly reducing the local integration speed.

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Green are your loyal servants, orange are the rebels, red is the strongest of the rebels.

Other situations include things like the Western Schism, the Hundred Years War & Sengoku Jidai. We will talk more about those in future Tinto Talks.

If you have a suggestion of what you think would be an important historical event that should be a situation, then please post them here!

Next week though, we will talk about something that many people have asked for repeatedly.
 
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Is the Situation system fixed? Are all situations already set at the beginning of the game,and can they be randomly generated ?

It's a bit like the struggle system of CK3
 
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I still feel it's weird for the same mechanic to power diplomatic struggles and also plague outbreaks. But this shows a Situation can apply to provinces as well as countries, and be "present" there to different degrees. I cannot imagine what crazy things modders are going to cook up using this!
 
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Just thought about something. Is there another situation for the fall of Ming/whoever takes over Yuan?
 
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This is interesting. Great for allowing complicated diplomatic dances for sure, but using that same mechanic to represent the Black Death rather than a dedicated plague system is an odd choice. May I ask what the reasoning behind that was @Johan ?

Immersion and narrative, as it was FAR more impactful than a normal disease. Columbian Exchange is another, which is far more impactful.

We do have a generic disease system as well.
 
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Are you planning to make any "alternate history situations", not necessarily based on something historical but rather on interesting plausible history scenarios?

For example, if the Mongols decide to restart their invasion of Europe and this time make it all the way to France, will there be a situation ready to handle this?

Or similarly if Byzantium retakes Rome, or the Ottomans crush the HRE, or Christian Europe takes the Middle East, etc.
 
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Great mechanic! Here are some Situation ideas for Europe
  1. Succession crises (dynamic)
  2. Protestant league
  3. Peasants war
  4. Dutch revolt
  5. 30 years war
  6. War of the roses
  7. French wars of religion
  8. Ottoman threat looms
  9. Time of troubles
  10. Great Northern War
  11. Discovery of Americas (would be a nice situation, people react in Europe via events, disease spreading in the Americas, try to meddle in native countries rebel issues etc.)
  12. Revolutions (dynamic? French?)
  13. Coalitions? Could be a situation if it's a major threat that should take a couple wars.
 
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My only fear with the black death is that it could produce radically different outcomes for the entirety of Europe. It's hard to have later events and situations make sense when in one game a nation might lose 70% of their population while they might lose 20% in another.

My big fear in particular is Bohemia which historically barely had any plague deaths. This "blessing from god", among other things, lead to the hussite wars which then did kill a large number of Czechs. Having both the full black death and the hussite wars hit Bohemia in 100 years would result in an unhistorically devastated state which then would be expected to play a large role in the 30 years war?

Will Bohemia (and Poland?) get modifiers to protect itself from the plague, to match historic events, or are we going for a full sandbox?
 
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So what is a “Situation” then? Good question. You could describe it as content that involves multiple countries over a period of time. In Project Caesar, we are using this feature to create a historical narrative that creates different experiences, as our goal is to have an immersive and varied experience for the player.

A Situation can have unique actions, events that trigger, and other types of unique content, and each of them will have its own UI and mapmode.

If a situation may involve or affect you, it will show with an alert, in the new color of purple!

Let's take a look at some of the situations we have in the game right now.
Are Situations all predetermined? or they can be dynamic? For example, can a random succession crisis be a Situation?
 
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Regarding the Italian Wars, would England count as a French Major power for the purposes of this situation, or does this depend on the outcome of the 100 year war, e.g. England is considered a French major power if but only if she retains lands or vassals etc. in France? If England is not considered a French power, what would happen if England conquered land in Italy, could England become leader of one of the Italian Leagues essentially converting it to an English league? Don't worry, I am not arguing that there should be a separate English league from the outset, I am simply trying to understand how flexible the system is.
 
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What about the Great Troubles? It was the succession civil war of the Golden Horde around ~1360 or so that caught up all the other states under the Mongol Yoke, the Lithuanians, and eventually was resolved by Tokhtamysh showing up with troops from the eastern half and ending the war, followed by sieging Moscow due to their involvement in the civil war. So, another civil war that had significant involvement of adjacent states.
 
This new mechanic seems really interesting. To return to what I launched last week on the Tinto Maps of France, I am convinced that there must be a way to use it to give Burgundy or other vassals the opportunity French to gain power and cause the King of France to waver as was the case historically. This would prevent France from simply annexing its vassals without any difficulty, while leaving the opportunity for Burgundy to attempt an ascension. We could have a situation like the French civil war between the Burgundians and the Armagnacs for example.
 
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Will you make Western Turks accurate ? Will they have their own "nomad" pop which will be better at war and bad at economy . This can make hordes better to play and interesting to rule as these nomads will can cause problems to settled people (like destroying farmlands while going from their yaylas to their kışlaks)
 
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Immersion and narrative, as it was FAR more impactful than a normal disease. Columbian Exchange is another, which is far more impactful.

We do have a generic disease system as well.
So the Black Death situation is using the generic disease mechanics, but with more stuff to flesh it out and make it as impactful as it was IRL? Do I get the idea right? Or Black Death and generic disease are entirely separate (hope not)?
 
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