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Dev Diary: Tile Upkeep Explained

Hi everyone. As we have seen a bunch of questions about how the Tile Upkeep added in patch 1.1.5f1, also known as Economy 2.0, works, we created this mini development diary. We hope this will answer some of your questions and give a better understanding of why we added the Tile Upkeep, and like always we welcome your constructive feedback and questions that might pop up after reading this.

So, let’s start with the basics. The Tile Upkeep is a new administrative land cost applied to land you own. It’s a fee that the city pays to the government for expanding its city limits inspired by the real-world property tax paid for unused land. The first 9 tiles already unlocked when you start a city do not have a cost. You are only charged a Tile Upkeep once you expand beyond those. The upkeep cost is a percentage value of the map tile purchasing cost and the percentage value increases on a curve from 5% to 25% as more map tiles are bought. This means early map tiles have a lower upkeep cost but as more map tiles are purchased, the upkeep per tile also increases affecting all purchased map tiles’ upkeep cost.

3-1 Curve.png

X axis is the number of map tiles purchased, Y axis is the % of map tile purchase cost used to calculate the map tile upkeep costs.

When we were designing the Economy 2.0 update, we felt that more management features should be taken into consideration when you build your cities. Based on the feedback from you all following the release and from the closed beta group during the development of Economy 2.0, we came to the conclusion that the game was not challenging enough, especially in the later part of the game. And with the lack of a proper challenge being successful didn’t have the impact we wanted it to have. Growing the city’s limits is a natural way to progress through the game, so implementing an upkeep cost to map tiles was a good way to pace the gameplay, especially in the latter half where the city size grows rapidly and the map tile expenses reflect that. Our goal with the Tile Upkeep cost is to bring you more meaningful choices as you expand the city so you don’t just have to consider where to expand to, but also whether your city can sustain such an expansion. All in all we feel it strengthens the game pacing and improves the gameplay experience.

Of course, this new cost affects your ability to reach the edge of the playable area and create new Outside Connections, so let’s talk briefly about the cheapest way to create them early on. If you haven’t already noticed, map tile costs are affected by what is available in them - buildable land, resources, etc - making tiles with a lot of water the cheapest. This makes buying ocean tiles the absolute cheapest way to go if your city needs that new Outside Connection as soon as possible. You can then create a bridge or pipeline to the edge of the playable area. Or you can use the terrain tools to create a more realistic landbridge and build a road on top of it, but keep in mind that more land inside the tile affects its upkeep cost.

3-2 Purchasing tiles.png

The UI has been updated to show not only the cost of new tiles but also the Tile Upkeep they come with.

If you’re continuing an existing save, you may have unlocked a lot of map tiles that now come with a high Tile Upkeep. You may be able to expand your city to build additional tax income to offset this cost, but if you have built villages or rural towns on the map using either Unlock All or a mod to unlock map tiles, that may just be too much to cover. In that case, we recommend enabling Unlock Map Tiles under Map Options the next time you load your save. While this does disable achievements, it also disables the Tile Upkeep so you can continue your city. This option is also great if you enjoy building small towns or villages and don’t want to skip the Milestone progression.

We have already seen some great feedback on the Tile Upkeep, both from those who like it and those who don’t. We will continue to follow discussions about the current state of the game, not only in regards to the Tile Upkeep, so we can further refine the gameplay and balance to provide the best possible experience for you while maintaining our goals for the game. We also have a survey where you can share your thoughts, currently available through the launcher.

Please keep in mind that iterating game features and balance takes time, so even when we agree with your feedback, we may not be able to address it for a while. Nevertheless, we greatly appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts about the game and the changes we make. We look forward to reading it and continuing development in the fall. Thank you for being a part of this journey.
 
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I feel like it could be a limit on creativity, and building smaller areas.

Want to have a long winding road through the wilderness to a remote location? Going to be too expensive.
 
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I feel like it could be a limit on creativity, and building smaller areas.

Want to have a long winding road through the wilderness to a remote location? Going to be too expensive.
I was working on this just today with a rural build that I started months ago. It is really tough to balance everything. I'm not convinced this build is out of the woods just yet.

33K population with mostly low density residential and some medium/high density in an industrial core near a harbor.

Crime still behaves weirdly IMO. 1% probability, 28% crime success rate, 110 crimes a month and almost 600 criminals.

And I don't think the game records unemployment accurately.
 
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The problem with unemployment is it’s tied inversely to tax rates, which (1) isn’t realistic to actual corporate economic behavior (lowering corporate tax rates does not automatically guarantee companies will hire more workers), and (2) doesn’t seem to account for precise zoning of jobs to meet demand at various education levels. Also there is a mismatch in how the employment rate is recorded in the population infoview when compared to the workplace distribution infoview. They’re not showing the same employment numbers for some reason (and according to patch notes, outside workers should no longer be represented in either infoview).

When you set tax rates lower in order to deal with unemployment then you have to make some hard choices about which services to fund and at what percent of budget.

Offices tend not to tolerate tax rates above 13%, commercial seem to be able to go as high as 25% but demand then crashes, industrial seems the most tolerant (I’ve set it as high as 20% with minimal consequences), and I’ve placed residential up to 15% with ample amenities and services.

Good luck solving employment!
I have noticed this…. It does seem that my unemployment of 24% is not represented in the workplace availability tab as it tells me everyone is employed and makes me think my unemployment rate is actually -24%. It’s a bit confusing. But I’m sure I’ll work it out eventually!
 
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Please remove tile upkeep, or scale it back drastically. Thankfully there was a day one mod that removes it.
Also bump up the milestone money you get.
 
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I don't like The new tile cost system.

The game became, for me, far too difficult. Before that I began to place my roads for the backbone of my city. Today with this system it costs maintenance costs (which is normal) but the cost of the tiles weighs me down from the start.

Roads, a landfill, an eoinne, a pumping station (the smallest), a wastewater discharge station and 2 tiles and here I am in deficit.

I don’t think the game is so good anymore.

The worst is that by disabling this maintenance of the tiles, the economy becomes more interesting to me but I no longer have access to a function that I liked: buy tiles because the developers did not think useful to put this maintenance function apart in the options.


I hope that a future patch this will become an option in its own right.
 
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This just reinforces my thoughts that this system is badly thought out.

It's a shame, because Economy 2.0 in general is otherwise really great, aside from a few (major) bugs.

inspired by the real-world property tax paid for unused land

Unused land taxes are levied on private companies and individuals. I'm unaware of any city that PAYS a tax like this on incorporated but unowned land IRL.

I'm also unaware of any city that has to buy entire tiles just to build a road or railroad. You pay for the eminent domain on the right-of-way and that's the end of it.

Why do we have tiles AT ALL? Why can't I just freeform district my city boundaries?

The suggestion to buy empty ocean tiles and build huge bridges is truly laughable. Can you imagine a real-world city proposing something like this...building a bridge across the ocean because it's too expensive to maintain empty land? It tells you the game is broken if that's the best way to get outside connections; bridge cost and maintenance is FAR too low and tile cost and maintenance is unrealistically high.

The difficulty increase was desperately needed, but this abstraction is all wrong. How about taking a good look at actual maintenance costs (for buildings, but even more for roads and bridges), or considering a realistic eminent domain system where redevelopment (a late game action) is expensive because you have to pay for the private buildings that you're bulldozing?
 
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The difficulty increase was desperately needed, but this abstraction is all wrong. How about taking a good look at actual maintenance costs (for buildings, but even more for roads and bridges), or considering a realistic eminent domain system where redevelopment (a late game action) is expensive because you have to pay for the private buildings that you're bulldozing?
This is a great idea. The cost to purchase private land, relocate the owner, and pay all of the associated lawyer fees when the property owner inevitably goes to court is a huge concern for real city governments.

To add to this, I’d love it if they included cost for terraforming instead of making it free. Moving dirt is another huge budget concern on large infrastructure projects.

Making these types of difficulty settings optional at the start of the game would make everyone happy.

- Eminent Domain: On/Off
- Terraforming Cost: On/Off

It would be an easy win for CO.
 
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Why do we have tiles AT ALL? Why can't I just freeform district my city boundaries?
I'm thinking all the way back to when I played SimCity in the 90s and then later when I started playing Cities Skylines around 2016-17...

I don't remember SimCity having a system of tile purchase like this, but I also don't recall the scale of SimCity2000 as being quite so immense. It may be that for people brand new to the genre starting off with a broad pallette is overwhelming. Cognitively speaking our minds need something tangible to grab hold of in order to process all the tasks involved in "building" a city.

It's like in the game is chess... first one learns how all the pieces move, then how to connect the rooks and control the center, then problems, then openings, etc. Masters of the game break the rules regularly for a strategic or tactical advantage--but newer players don't even see that deeply into the game.

Tiles (perhaps) are part of the tutorial and milestone progression process by which newcomers to the game can learn about and master the game's mechanics.

Someone like yourself, who is asking the question above, has moved beyond needing the progression sequence and tutorials in order to successfully play the game. For you, we have the 529 tiles mod. The reality is we don't necessarily need the tiles in order to build beautiful and functional (in-game) cities--but for many they are an important part of the learning process.
 
I don't like The new tile cost system.

The game became, for me, far too difficult. Before that I began to place my roads for the backbone of my city. Today with this system it costs maintenance costs (which is normal) but the cost of the tiles weighs me down from the start.

Roads, a landfill, an eoinne, a pumping station (the smallest), a wastewater discharge station and 2 tiles and here I am in deficit.

I don’t think the game is so good anymore.

The worst is that by disabling this maintenance of the tiles, the economy becomes more interesting to me but I no longer have access to a function that I liked: buy tiles because the developers did not think useful to put this maintenance function apart in the options.


I hope that a future patch this will become an option in its own right.
If you are OK with using mods, I think the 529 tile mod will allow you to open tiles according to the game's default, but it includes a toggle that lets you decide a percentage of tile upkeep cost to apply. You can also unlock all tiles and set the upkeep cost to zero in the mod. I haven't thrown in the towel yet on playing unmodded.
 
I don't remember SimCity having a system of tile purchase like this, but I also don't recall the scale of SimCity2000 as being quite so immense. It may be that for people brand new to the genre starting off with a broad pallette is overwhelming. Cognitively speaking our minds need something tangible to grab hold of in order to process all the tasks involved in "building" a city.

It's like in the game is chess... first one learns how all the pieces move, then how to connect the rooks and control the center, then problems, then openings, etc. Masters of the game break the rules regularly for a strategic or tactical advantage--but newer players don't even see that deeply into the game.

Tiles (perhaps) are part of the tutorial and milestone progression process by which newcomers to the game can learn about and master the game's mechanics.

Except that the mechanics involved in tile purchase are never reused elsewhere in the game, so learning them is pointless.

Whereas freeform districting is used all over the game. Why not set city boundaries using the districting mechanics, and take the opportunity to teach the novice player something they'll actually use?

Tile costs are already calculated dynamically based on contained resources, buildable land, etc. There's no reason for them to be compelled to be fixed-size squares when all I want is some land next to that river over yonder to build a highway on...
 
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Except that the mechanics involved in tile purchase are never reused elsewhere in the game, so learning them is pointless.

Whereas freeform districting is used all over the game. Why not set city boundaries using the districting mechanics, and take the opportunity to teach the novice player something they'll actually use?

Tile costs are already calculated dynamically based on contained resources, buildable land, etc. There's no reason for them to be compelled to be fixed-size squares when all I want is some land next to that river over yonder to build a highway on...
It would be pretty easy and intuitive from a UI perspective too.

1. Select “purchase new land” and the overlay would change to highlight the city boundary for editing
2.Edit the free form city boundary, a box in the UI would dynamically update the estimated cost of the additional land as the player makes edits
3. When done editing, select “Purcase” and the new boundary is saved or select “Cancel” and the changes are discarded

Honestly, they’re halfway there now that they are allowing map editors to create irregular tile sizes. Might as well give that power to the player, right?
 
@ra-hoch3
Those are great ideas.

I’d love if we were required to build more administrative buildings as our cities grow larger. A Department of Public Works, Department of Utilities, Department of Health, etc. Each with staff needs that would increase or decrease with the size of your city.

The administrative buildings could be staffed by cims who live in your city and whose salaries would come out of the city budget.
I agree. This idea is great. I can even imagine that this could even replace development points to feel more realistic.

Like a Departement of Railroad unlocks trains. An upgrade to that building gives you then access to subway and so on.

Each of these departments would have maintenance costs as they need employees. So just like in real life: the more departments you have, the more expensive it gets.
 
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I agree. This idea is great. I can even imagine that this could even replace development points to feel more realistic.

Like a Departement of Railroad unlocks trains. An upgrade to that building gives you then access to subway and so on.

Each of these departments would have maintenance costs as they need employees. So just like in real life: the more departments you have, the more expensive it gets.
Yes! This makes a ton of sense. Not only would it be more realistic than abstract development points, it would also make us players feel more connected to the unique, physical places in our city.

Like, I can think to myself,
“I unlocked subways in this building, on this street, this district, in my city.”
 
please update us on the office worker bug that limits high level office building workers to 5 employees. This causes massive unemployment. Is a hotfix in the works as this is an urgent issue? Great work on the latest patch!
We're working on a fix for this, but as we have entered the "summer lock" where Paradox does not release games or patches, I'm not sure when the fix might be available.

And a big thank you to everyone for sharing your feedback! This thread is a joy to read through as a community manager. <3
 
We're working on a fix for this, but as we have entered the "summer lock" where Paradox does not release games or patches, I'm not sure when the fix might be available.

And a big thank you to everyone for sharing your feedback! This thread is a joy to read through as a community manager. <3
I'm sorry, but this 'lock' attitude is stunning in its disregard for customers (who ensure Paradox continues to operate as a going concern). We are not talking about a game release or even a patch release, but a hotfix to repair the problems CO have introduced with their patch. In other words, a massively smaller in scale intervention to put right CO's problems of their own creating.

If Paradox (and I suggest you take this up with them in a conversation directly as our community manager) considers 'abandoning' players for a number of weeks as the correct approach, rather than fixing a small number of highlighted problems, it's no wonder they are losing the faith of many across their plethora of titles. They simply have lost touch and do not deserve to succeed.
 
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Lol yeah especially that they delayed the patch because of Midsummer holidays, so they could be all hands on deck for hotfixes when game breaking issues arise (their words). But when an issue arises, did they go into 'summer lock'

At this point I don't know what to believe from these people anymore. After every good thing, there is always more disappointment around the next corner.
 
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I give up, I just cant believe we wont have a hotfix for the game breaking bugs that came with eco 2.0.

I had reinstaled the game and now I am uninstaling it again. No chance I am playing it with theese bugs ( office, homeless, crime)
 
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I'm sorry, but this 'lock' attitude is stunning in its disregard for customers (who ensure Paradox continues to operate as a going concern). We are not talking about a game release or even a patch release, but a hotfix to repair the problems CO have introduced with their patch. In other words, a massively smaller in scale intervention to put right CO's problems of their own creating.

If Paradox (and I suggest you take this up with them in a conversation directly as our community manager) considers 'abandoning' players for a number of weeks as the correct approach, rather than fixing a small number of highlighted problems, it's no wonder they are losing the faith of many across their plethora of titles. They simply have lost touch and do not deserve to succeed.
this is such a helpful response! s/
 
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