Tinto Maps #12 - 26th of July 2024 - Germany

[MapPaintingEnjoyer]

Maybe you can structure the areas like the "Reichskreise", the territorial units of the HRE . As the current areas are like the modern states of Germany which were artificially created by the allies after WW2 like Rhineland-Palatinate or Northrine-Westphalia etc.

 

[Baikal]

The thread is already to long to do anything but a cursory check, but in case someone else already posted this, my apoligies.

Something general: I'm not sure I like relying on medieval Gau names for many of the provinces as these feel a bit outdated for the game's timeframe and most of them were already absorbed into other entities long before the game's timeframe.

Now on tot he details.

• Westergau is plain wrong here. A medieval Westergau existed, but that was located South of the Harz mountains, not to the north of them.
• Similarly Citizi is... spelled wrong? Did you mean the Gau Zitizi/Zitici/Citice? This Gau was rather small, mostly encompassing the territory of Zerbst, if that.
• Also, what is the name of the pinkish province to the South of these two? It's a bit hard to read, is it the "Gau Coledizi"?

I'd suggest using the names of the circles/counties of the Archbishopric of Magdeburg instead:

• Westergau -> Holzkreis (encompasses pretty much exaclty the listed territories)
• Gau Citizi -> Jerichowscher Kreis (technically only encompasses Belzig and Burg, but better than just Zerbst)
• Gau Coledizi -> Saalekreis (technically only encompasses Halle an der Saale)

Alternatives:

• Gau Citizi -> Fläming (is the name of a hill range/natural landscape encompassing Belzig, Burg, Zerbst and Wittenberg, but not Genthin and technically also encompassing the territory of Jürtbog)
• Gau Coledizi -> Mansfelder Land (tenchnically mostly covers Eisleben)

The Harz mountains were the most important source of silver in the region, to the point Barbarossa butted head with Henry the Lion over control of the Goslar silver mines. Goslar should have silver as a good instead of wool. The silver mines in the Harz have been exploited since the early medieval times.

I feel this general region should have way more marshes. Like along the Havel and in Mecklenburg... there should probably be even more in Lower Saxony and East Frisia.

 

[Tahami Tsunami]

The boundaries are not errors, in principle, as we specifically reviewed (and discussed) them a couple of times.

After posting the question, I found a post of yours saying that Bar is both a French vassal and a member of the HRE.

Regardless, thank you for the reply!

 

[Frost_34]

I have one feedback regarding the area of Trier. The Province Hunsrück is a "Mittelgebirge" and has its biggest expansion in west to east direction, on the map it is completly different. The borders of the hunsrück are the rivers Rhine, Mosel, Nahe and Saar.
On the map the province Hunsrück conists of the locations of Mayen, Cochem, Simmern and Kreuznach. I would suggest to remove Mayen out of the Province, because it is mainly in the north of the Mosel. Trier, Bernkastel and maybe St. Wendel should be added to the province. I think this will be closer to the real situation.

 

[Zymes]

That is a lot of countries.

Hopefully you are able to make countries feel different in play and not make the Imperator mistake of 1000 tribes that all play the same.

 

[Fzfghfzg]

It´s called "Mönchengladbach"

 

[Fikou_]

Yes!

will it be possible to estabilish yourself as an archduchy if you arent playing as austria and dont want to shatter everytime?

 

[zraith]

German, as Eastern Pomeranian. We've represented the Slavic culture of the region under the 'Polabian' and 'Kashubian' denominations. And yes, because of the ongoing German colonization, the region is completely striped, and there are some pockets with a Polabian majority.

We will review if this needs to be further expanded, of course.

Quick feedback:

• Slovenian Styria should be "Untersteiermark" (Lower Styria).
• Turing should be Turingen (with umlauts ofc).
• Once again re-think the useage of "Kashubian" for all Slavic Pommeranians (Kashubia is but a small region of Pommerania).
• Polish shouldn't extend into Lebuser Land, it should be either Sorbian or Polabian there. This region should also have a sizable Silesian population as it was historically part of Silesia more than Greater Poland.
• Consider maybe adding some Slavic pagans in Pommerania, they were historically very hard to convert and most likely the belief system remained in some isolated regions for a long while.
• Polabian being the majority near Stettin makes no sense - it would some variant of Slavic Pommeranian (what you call "Kashubian") here.
• Last thing tregarding Poland and Carpathia, the Polish access to mountains (Podhale) should be flanked by Orava and Spis locations, making the Polish access more narrow (as it was historically).

Using the name of the descendants of a tribe or the name of a single tribe for the entirely of the Pomeranian tribes would give the wrong impression.

Considering that there there is already a Western Pomeranian and Eastern Pomeranian cultures representing the Germanic people/settlers and German assimilated Slavs, using Slavic Pomeranian could be an option.

Another option is that since Pommern is used as the name for the area instead of Pomerania, there is the possibility of using Pomeranians describe Slavic Pomeranians and West/East Pommern to describe German Pomeranians.

It's starting to feel annoying when culture names use anglicized spelling lol.

 

[Sehmops]

Nice map. I just noticed a few things:
1) Gustrow should probably be Güstrow
2) Brema seems a bit odd to me, why not Bremen?
3) the placement of the Potsdam location looks a bit off as the city of Potsdam is more to the south then the town of Teltow.
Maybe you could consider redrawing the area a bit and making it Werder (called Flecken at the time, I believe. I misread, Flecken was not the name, just the type of town), Potsdam and Beelitz. Though Werder was not that relevant at the time, it became a famous producer of fruits in the region. But that is just my two cents without a bunch of research, so do with that what you want.

 

[Palando]

So I had the change to improve my Saxon proposal:

Compared to other parts of the HRE with comparable heterogeneity, Saxony currently lacks representation of smaller states. I don't know if it's on purpose or if it's because the sources are lacking. There only seems to be Glauchau between Meißen and Landsberg.

Regardless of that, Chemnitz shouldn't be owned by Landsberg but by Meißen.

Personally, I'd advocate to include the following smaller players:

The Bishopric of Meißen was independent until it was incorporated into Saxony after the Protestant Reformation. It owned most of the lands south-east of Dresden and the Elbe river (most notably Bischofswerda and Stolpen) as well as Wurzen and Mügeln and their surrounding areas. Between Wurzen and Mügeln there was a small territory around Dahlen which was owned by the Bishopric of Naumburg, so in general that area was held by bishoprics and not worldly rulers.

The County of Torgau was ruled by the Counts of Torgau (Bodo of Torgau in 1337) until the mid of the 15th century. They held all of the territory around the city of Torgau.

The Lordship of Waldenburg (Heinrich of Waldenburg in 1337) would represent the three small independent worldly rulers of the region (Burgraviate of Meißen and small territories owned by Colditz), as a third Meißen would probably be too much at that point.

The last one would be the Burgraviate of Colditz, althought they owned a smaller strip of land, so they are the most arguable of the aforementioned ones. Thimo VIII of Colditz, however, was an important confidant of emperor Charles IV. Given

Pirna was owned by Bohemia from the reign of Václav II (1293) until the reign of Wenceslaus, King of Germany (1405) Nearby Königstein actually derives its name from this period (there were no Saxon emperors or kings at that time). Alternatively, the territory could be changed to Dohna and then owned by the Burgraviate Dohna.

A rough map from the reign of Emperor Charles IV that shows this tentacle.

Pirna was owned by Bohemia from the reign of Václav II (1293) until the reign of Wenceslaus, King of Germany (1405)

 

[tizi1701]

We might do the German Alps a bit more functional after the review, as we did with the French and Italian area

1. Feldkirch is already decent-sized, but we'll see.
2. Obergurgl is an actual candidate to be removed, as it's too small, yes.

I also wanted to say this. Even nowadays, Obergurgl is nothing more than a hotel village. Befor winter tourism kicked in Tyrol, it was nothing more than 3 Farmers who brought their cattle up there in the summer. If really necessary to represent the Ötztal, I would rather call it „Sölden“, the village of wich Obergurgl is an official part of today.

 

[ibvfteh]

using Pomeranians describe Slavic Pomeranians and West/East Pommern to describe German Pomeranians.

That is very confusing tbh.

 

[Andreas der Löwe]

I am very pleased that my hometown Mergentheim is represented. I wonder how it works that Mergentheim is owned by the Teutonic Order, whose Baltic Order State is not in the Empire, while Mergentheim is in the Empire and it even became the Order's capital after the creation of the Duchy of Prussia. Regarding the culture, the topography, the vegetation and the climate, I think the classifications are correct. For the raw materials, I would suggest using wine as well as for Tauberbischofsheim, as viticulture is very important in the area and the area is also characterized by its vineyards. For the province of Soltau in northern Germany, I would suggest salt as a raw material, as salt mining was very important in the Middle Ages and is even the origin of the name Soltau. "Solt" means salt and "au" means meadow. For Southern Bavarian I would suggest the name Alpine Bavarian, as it would be more consistent with Danube Bavarian and Upper Palatine, which are also called Middle Bavarian and Northern Bavarian, although I find the names Alpine Bavarian, Danube Bavarian and Upper Palatine better than the name after the directions.

 

[El Don Simon123]

Hi

One small request: Please brighten up my day and create the location „Duisburg“, in what is now a Part of „Rees“. It is my hometown, so I may be a little biased, but I think it‘s a town of great history and is worthy of being featured on the map.

Located on the mouth of the Ruhr River into the Rhine and also on the „Hellweg“-Trade route, it was naturally for centuries, and is again, by the way, an important center for trading activities. It even became a free imperial city in the high medieval ages.

Additionally, maybe Duisburg is identical to „Dispargum“ from where Chlodio the Francish King started to conquer the later Merovingian Empire. But thats disputed among historians.

Politically, on the starting date, Duisburg should belong to Cleve, because it was sold by the emperor. I guess Wool as a raw material would be fine, because the city had a cloth market

So I hope deeply, that my request is considered and maybe even implemented

Sincerely

El Don Simon

 

[tizi1701]

1.. I think another location should be added in Tyrol, the town of Landeck. It was its own thing in CK3 and was much more significant in the middle age than imst or telfs for example. It could also be merged with Nauders/Galtür, because those where very small villages back then.
2. I have no clue how you got those population numbers for tyrol, but they seem pretty high for me. Steinach for example, with 47.000. Today, in the whole Wipptal and Stubaital areas, which this location approximately encompasses, there are less then 40k inhabitants. I know there are very little sources but this seems a little off

 

[Linbot#6018]

Something that's a bit strange to me is that Mecklenburg as a historical region has been disappeared and literally gerrymandered into Pomerania.

Mecklenburg was well-established as a principality by the start date and as far I can tell historical definitions of Pomerania never include Mecklenburg. Hither Pomerania and Mecklenburg do have cultural affinities, but they're distinct regions. They were politically united only as late as 983, 350 years before the start date, and as early as 1945, 500 years after the start date. Meanwhile, Holstein, which is the same as Mecklenburg if not a bit smaller, does get to be its own entire area.

As such, I would propose creating a Mecklenburg area, and also creating a Hither Pomerania province out of the eastern parts of Stralsund and Circipania.

Aside from that, the number of German cultures seems excessive. Do there really need to be three Bavarian cultures? Does Angrian really need to be distinct from Westphalian?

 

[Portius]

Overall, I like this. I'd suggest adjusting the color on either Landsberg or Henneberg, though. Those shades of yellow are pretty similar and they're right near each other, so it's hard to see the border.

 

[Relinquere]

Made an account here just for this,
Also as I started writing this there are already 19 pages of comments so some of the things I put here may have already been said; and of course not an expert so I'll probably miss a lot of things with some areas.

DYNASTIES
'Welfen' to 'von Welf'
'von Mark' to 'von der Mark'
'von Baden' to 'von Zähringen'

SOME LOCATIONS
Saxony & Thuringia
Liebenwerda (while acceptable, Mühlberg could be an alternative given an actual battle was fought there in 1547)
Schweinitz (seems Annaburg was a more relevant settlement)
Ilmenau (looking at maps its closer to directly south of Arnstadt, might be better to replace with Suhl which historically had a gunsmithing industry)
Sonneberg (Saalfeld or Rudolstadt are more relevant as capitals of lordships though not at start date)

Rhineland-Brunswick
Schotten (seems Nidda was a more relevant settlement)
Korbach (Waldeck was a lordship around there)
Hofgeismar (Schöneberg was a lordship around here)
Buren (should have an umlaut on the u, Büren)
Hamm (seems Werl was a more relevant settlement to the Duchy of Berg)
Don't know enough about the Duchies of Brunswick/Cleves/Berg to sweep more on the location relevance there, but it's probably worth checking. In terms of how I've determined 'relevance' for the above name recommendations, it goes down to checking which of these towns' historical polities either had capitals on or named governing districts (i.e. kreis) after.

AREAS
As admitted by you guys, setup looks very modern so lots of changes needed.
For Saxony try to at least follow the borders of the Electorate of Saxony because all of that area in Brandenburg only ever became a part of Prussia in 1815.
For Lower Saxony, perhaps areas can be based off the Duchy of Brunswick–Lüneburg.
For the Northern part of the Rhine, probably some merger of the Duchies of Jülich, Cleves, and Berg along with another area for the polities around the Prince-Bishopric of Münster
For the Rhineland-Palatinate, very fragmented historically without any real major territory it was partitioned from, so perhaps just naming it the Upper Rhine (after the Imperial Circle is possible)
For Oberrhein, see Rheinish Franconia
For Pomerania, consider separating Mecklenburg

Should hopefully result in similarly-sized areas? Not fully sure what size you're going for here.

 

[NilsFabian]

Wow, this game is going to be VERY expensive...
Not the game itself but the Computer needed to run it.

 

[Thorum]

View attachment 1168322
It´s called "Mönchengladbach"

And untill recently simply "Gladbach", at least per wikipedia