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Tinto Talks #30 - 25th September 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the time of the week when we give you new information about our entirely super secret upcoming game with the codename Project Caesar.

Today we will talk about how conquest works and how integrating the new locations you have conquered will work. With conquest, we are talking about how you take territory through warfare. For how the actual military campaigns work, I recommend reading Tinto Talks 22, 23 and 24.

Casus Belli
To start a war many feel that you need a casus belli for it, which we will refer to a CB for the rest of this talk. If you lack a CB and start a war you will gain some aggressive expansion and lose some stability. Now while this may not be something you may always want, it is a more lenient way to recover instead of spending precious paper mana like in EU4. However, there are multiple ways to get a CB in this game.

Now, Project Caesar does not have a ‘Fabricate Claim’ button that magically creates a CB on any nation, nor do we have a system of claims, but you have several different options to get a CB.

First of all, there is the super old school way of getting one from an event. This may not cater to everyone's playing style, as it is way too random, but if it was good enough for your parents back in 2001, it is good enough for.. Eh, n/m.

Secondly, we have the option of calling a Parliament and asking them to come up with a valid reason for war against a nearby country. This is powerful, but unless you have a high Crown Power, you may need to negotiate with your Estates for their backing. And Parliaments can not be called every month either, democracy is not even invented yet.

Finally we have the way of creating a CB, when there is a more or less legitimate way to one. First of all, creating a CB on a country requires you to have a spy network in the target country, similar to how claim fabrication works in EU4, but you also need to have some sort of reason to create the type of CB you want. If you let's say play Denmark and want to take back Skåne from Sweden, as you have cores on it, then you can create a ‘Conquer Core’ CB on them, or if they have used Privateers in sea zones where you have a Maritime Presence, you can create another CB on them. There are 50+ different CB you can create depending on circumstances, including everything from ‘Flower Wars’ for countries of Nahuatl religion, ‘Dissolving the Tatar Yoke’ for the tributaries under that International Organization, or ‘Humiliating Rivals’.

war_overview.png

31 allies and subjects for Bohemia, hmmm…

Just remember.. No CB is best CB!


War Goals
Whether you decide that a small border adjustment is needed, or you wish to wage a total war, you need to pick which War Goal you wish to pursue. Different casus belli will allow you to pick different War Goals and the War Goal you pick impacts the cost of conquest as well. A conquer CB will make taking land cheaper, while a ‘humiliation CB will make them more expensive.

A War Goal for a province requires you to occupy that entire province, while a Naval Superiority War Goal will give you a bonus score for blockading the enemy, and defeating their navy if possible.

If your War Goal is fulfilled then the warscore from it ticks up to a maximum of 25, and the total impact from battles in this game can be worth up to 50, while occupations and blockades have no cap and can reach over 100 warscore if possible.

In Project Caesar, therefore, not every war is necessarily a total war like some previous games we have made.

If the War Goal is not fulfilled, it is only possible to get 100% War Score if the winning side controls all of the losing side's locations, and the losing side controls no towns or cities.

This means that if you have your wargoal taken care of, winning some important battles and occupying some land, you will be able to force a reasonable peace on someone.

war_goal.png

Give me liberty or ehh.. annexation?


Integration
So what do you do then, when you have signed a peace and got some new land to your country?

First of all, it is not as simple as a location being a core or not, as Project Caesar introduces a new system of integration for locations. There are four states of integration in this game, first of all the conquered locations, which have a high separatism, lower control, and make pops unlikely to convert or assimilate. This is the state of any location you conquer that is not a core of yours. When a location becomes integrated, separatism drops to one fifth of the previous levels, and control has a higher maximum. When a location becomes a core, the minimum control is higher, and your primary and accepted cultures grow more, while minorities become stagnant. We also have the colonized status, which is after you have colonized a location, and it is not yet a core. A colonized location has lower maximum control.

What is separatism then? Well, it is the reduction of satisfaction for pops that are not of the primary culture. This is very likely to make the locations very unproductive for quite some time.

A location becomes a core automatically if it's integrated OR colonial, and at least 50% of the pops are of the primary or accepted cultures of that country.

core.png

It is beneficial to get your locations to become your cores…

How do you integrate a location then? Well, this is the challenge in Project Caesar, as you do not have any magic paper mana to spend on it, but instead you need to use one of the members of your cabinet to integrate it. At the start of the game, a cabinet member can integrate an entire province at once, but in the Age of Absolutism you have an advance that will let you integrate an entire area at once.

This integration is not instant, but depends on many factors, like the status and the population living in the locations affected, but on average integrating a province may take between 25 and 50 years.

integration.png

And what are all of these factors then?


Stay tuned, as in next week's Tinto Talks, we will talk about how peace treaties themselves work, and which ones we have.
 
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7) Have you guys considered using another word than core? I always thought it was a weird name for it. If i play France and take Catalonia, it feels weird that integrating it will make it part of the core of France, despite not even being French. I typically associate "core" with the most essential part of the nation. Italy was the core of the Roman empire. It was especially weird with the "territoial cores" in EU4. Calling a part of the county that wasn't fully integrated a core part of it is a bit odd.
I see your point, but I think it's appropriate here. After all it takes a long time and conscious effort just to integrate provinces, and even then the province in question only becomes a core if your primary or accepted cultures represent the majority of people living there. If they don't make accepting a culture way too easy (like it is in EU4) and it actually carries weight, then a province becoming a core part of your country after 30-40 years (or even longer, depending how much time it'll take to satisfy the population condition), seems fitting in this case both in an in-game and a figurative sense.
 
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So, if I'm getting this right:

  • No CB wars seem intended to be way more common, as opposed to EU4 where they were heavily disincentivized.
  • Coring is meant to be very slow, taking 25 to 50 years to core a province, and it picks up pace in the Age of Absolutism by allowing to core a whole area in, I assume, the same timespan.
  • Because of that I think players will have to choose between using a lot of subjects, seizing a limited amount of land in areas of same culture in the first half of the game, or expand a lot but accept the fact that coring will be unfeasible and thus all the land gained will be very inefficient.
  • The new warscore system is trying to avoid that every war is a total war, but we'll see how well it accomplishes that.
Overall, it seems like good stuff.
 
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You will be able to force peace at 100 WS even though you occupy maybe 25% of the country, and have won most of the battles and have the War goal under control for some time.
When you say force, does that mean that the player cannot reject a peace deal from the AI if the AI has reached 100 WS and that said peace deal with be automatically accepted?
 
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About separatism: is it population based or location based.

Say we take over a location and the population in that location dies off be it war or disease, will there still be separatism?
 
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Will we have control about our cultural influence / the cultural tradition of our territories or will it be "only" a modifier we get through laws / estates privilege ?

We will talk more about this indepth mechanic later this autumn
 
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Not a great fan of Aggressive Expansion tbh. I hoped you would come up with something more innovative, but it reads like AE is basically the same as in EU4 or I:R. The problem with AE is that it's just a number that goes up and ticks down over time. There was a great post about Threat as an alternative to AE which not only takes into consideration conquering territory etc., but also your economic, military or other forms of power as well as cultural or religious factors. Threat has a much more natural anti-blobbing mechanic, it remains rather constant if you are, e.g., the economic hegemon in that part of the world. With AE, you just stab the pig or employ the right advisor action to get rid of it.

Not a fan of it at all.
 
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While integration happens across an entire province, what about the integration status of individual locations in a province?
Can I own three different locations in one province where one is core, one integrated, and one conquered or does an entire province lower from cored->integrated or integrated->conquered when new provinces are conquered into it?
 
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core.png


I don't get it... so... all non-primary and not accepted pops suddenly will... stop having sex and won't multiply?

- What's up, my dear cabinet member? How's integration of France going?
- Oh, sire, they won't mate. They just walk around, eating, and not mating.
 
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Control and proximity makes that non-ideal.
By the same token, won't control/proximity also incentivize 'snaking' to some extent? If I'm England and I take all the land surrounding Paris to cut off France's control, that seems like a very powerful way to destroy France by taking minimal land with how I understand the systems right now.
 
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View attachment 1192951

I don't get it... so... all non-primary and not accepted pops suddenly will... stop having sex and won't multiply?

- What's up, my dear cabinet member? How's integration of France going?
- Oh, sire, they won't mate. They just walk around, eating, and not mating.
Yeah, I can't say I'm a fan of that one. It also means that ticking over from 49% accepted to 50% accepted means that the resulting birth rate in an integrated location will be cut by half, as the other 50% will... well, suddenly stop growing. Coring actually becomes detrimental to pop growth in that regard, because it cuts it in half once you hit the cutoff point.

Something else to do away with once I get my hands on the game, I suppose...
 
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So since coring takes so long, is overextension a thing?

no, that does not exist.

the lack of control & separatism makes it unnecesary
 
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With auto integration of provinces, could you integrate a location by expelling locals and encouraging migration of primary culture pops? I remember and early TT referenced being able to colonize colonized provinces, so maybe this is what that referred to?
 
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With auto integration of provinces, could you integrate a location by expelling locals and encouraging migration of primary culture pops? I remember and early TT referenced being able to colonize colonized provinces, so maybe this is what that referred to?
There's only auto-coring, not auto-integration. In fact, as far as I can tell there's no way to core a location other than to hit that 50%.
 
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