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Tinto Maps #20 - 27th of September 2024 - The Steppes

Hello, and welcome one more week to the weekly encounter for map lovers! This week it’s also directed at horse lovers because we will be looking at the Eurasian Steppes, plus the Urals! So let’s start with the maps without further ado.

Countries:
Countries.jpg

Colored Wastelands.jpg

A glorious, Golden Horde! It is at its power peak, under the reign of Uzbeg Khan, so it's a much more menacing presence for its neighbors. However, it has its some internal issues that need to be managed, as you’ll notice in some of the maps, and in the future when we talk about the content for Hordes. The Golden Horde also heads its own IO, the Tatar Yoke, as shown in a previous Tinto Maps:

Tatar Yoke.jpg

We have already corrected the Ruthenian countries that are under the Horde’s Yoke, although we still have to correct the Russian principalities, which will be done in the corresponding Tinto Maps review. We’re also aware that we need to improve a bit the coloring of the IO, to mark not only the Golden Horde as the overlord of these countries, but also that Muscovy holds the title of the Grand Principality of Vladimir, which makes it the ‘enforcer’ of the Yoke. These fixes are also planned to be done in a few weeks.

Societies of Pops:
Societies of Pops.jpg

Societies of Pops 2.jpg .jpg

A bit up to the north, we have some Societies of Pops! This means that the territory of Western Siberia won’t be empty land, but will be populated by these people, which can be interacted with.

BTW, I’m not showing this week a dynasty map because, well, only the Borgijin dynasty rules over the lands of the Golden Horde, of course!


Locations:
Locations.jpg

Locations Western Siberia.jpg

Locations 3.jpg

Locations 4.jpg

Locations 5.jpg

Tons of locations today… You might notice that the density location is in a progression from west to east, from the most densely settled areas to the less settled ones. You may also notice that we’ve followed a design of ‘settler corridors’ in Western Siberia, setting those parts of the land that were habitable, usually on river valleys.

Provinces:
Provinces.jpg

Provinces 2.jpg


Areas:
Areas.jpg


Terrain:
Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

The terrain is interesting here, as there are two main ecological areas. The first is the Steppes, Flatlands with Sparse and Grasslands vegetation, with either Cold Arid or Continental climates. And then we have the Siberian Arctics Forests, which are completely different, of course. On a note, the Urals were set as Hills, as they’re a quite settleable area, but we’ll probably make a review with your feedback, and add some mountains there.

Development:
Development.jpg

The whole region is not very developed, you might notice the difference with India, from last week’s Tinto Maps.

Harbors:
Harbors.jpg

There are some harbors in the Steppe region… In the Black Sea and Caspian Sea, of course! As usual, we’re open to feedback on this matter.

Cultures:
Cultures.jpg

Plenty of cultures! One note: Although we planned to work on the religious and cultural minorities of the region during the summer, we ended up not having enough time to add them. So what we’ll be doing today is showing the rough outline of ‘cultural spheres’, and then we’ll add the minorities during the review of the region. In that sense, feedback is very well received.

With that said the only note that needs to be made in terms of the cultural design is that we divided the Tatar cultural group into some differentiated regional cultures, being Crimean, Mishary, Kazani, and Astrakhani. We’re also aware that some of the cultures, as Mari and Chuvash, might be a bit displaced, as noted in the Russian Tinto Maps, so we’ll review and correct that with your feedback.


Religions:
Religions.jpg

Regarding Religions, the matter is a bit worse, as the big Sunni blob is just because the main religion of the Golden Horde is Islam, after the conversion of Uzbeg Khan, but that’s obviously incorrect. Also, as we have been able to forecast development time on how Pagan divisions will be during this autumn, we will make a comprehensive review of the region as well, to get a good distribution of ‘Shamanist’ Paganism, Tengrism, and Sunni Islam.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.jpg

Raw Materials 2.jpg

Raw Materials 3.jpg

Regarding the raw materials, the Steppes have plenty of Livestock and Horses, quite logically, although there are regions with some other goods. And up to the north, the main materials are Lumber and Fur. Apart from that, I want to mention the mineral hub in the Ural Mountains, with plenty of Copper, Iron, Gold, Lead, and Coal. That makes it a very mid and late-game interesting spot, and playing as Muscovy/Russia, I’ll tell you that you definitely want to expand into that region, as it will fulfill some of your material needs by that time.

Markets:
Markets.jpg

Markets! Big region, with lots of markets, although you may noticed that we changed the coloring of the locations that have 0% market access, which is the case in several areas. In any case, the market centers are Kaffa, Astrakhan, Saray-Jük, Kunya Urgench, Samarkand, Almaty, and Chimgi Tura. BTW, these names are much easier to notice in the game’s UI, as they’re beside the market centers:

Markets 2.jpg


Population:
Population.jpg

This week we’re showing only the country population mapmode, as there are some location numbers here and there which are failing, due to the already known issue with our pop editor (and which are on the way to be fixed). In any case, the whole population of the region is around 6.5-7M, of which around 6.3M are part of the Golden Horde. As I said, it’s a menacing country…

And that’s all for today! This is going to be my last Tinto Maps in a while, as I’ll be on vacation for 3 weeks during October (you might have noticed that I didn’t have any during summer), so one of the Content Designers in the team, @Roger Corominas , will step in and be in charge of the next 4 Tinto Maps. It’s in good hands, as Roger is an Experienced CD, who has been working and focused on Project Caesar for more than 3 years, at this point (this is why you might not know him from EU4, as other CDs in our team). In any case, he will be starting with the regions of Xinjiang, mostly ruled by the Chagatai Khanate, and Tibet.

I’ll keep reading and answering you during next week, and then I’ll be back in a month from now. See you!
 
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In the earlier Religions TT there was another, lighter-shaded religion next to Shamanism in Eastern Siberia. What was that? Just a different regional variety of Siberian shamanistic traditions?

Also, do you have any plans on subdividing Shamanism further?
 
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Yerle Qalıq apparently means older inhabitants in reference to the recent Volga Tatar migrants. I think Siberian or Sibir or Siberian Tatar or Tadar could work well.
 
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Yerle Qalıq apparently means older inhabitants in reference to the recent Volga Tatar migrants. I think Siberian or Sibir or Siberian Tatar or Tadar could work well.
It's also an inconsistent choice given that they have been sticking strictly to "modern English name" for every other culture, and yet they made a sort of arbitrary exception here
 
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Previously I had worked on the Genoese colonies in the black sea today I would also like to add a few more map changes for the Caucasus and more specifically for Circassia and Georgia.
sketch-1727507583379.png


-First Circassia, Circassians home region was in the north Caucasus and more accurately in the basin of the Kuban river (the Circassians that lived there were usually called western Circassians and we're more prominently settled in the western part of the Kuban river thus their name)

A visual of the Kuban river for geographic context.
sketch-1727605809953.png


A useful map regarding the ethnicities of the northern Caucasus. (Granted this map shows the populations of the northern Caucasus more than 500 centuries later, however for the Circassians their home region hadn't changed up until then)
IMG_20240929_133857.jpg


Thus I suggest that the Circassians are given the remaining 4 locations west of the Kuban river which include Belorechensk, Kurganinsk, Labinsk and Armavir as I have highlighted with light green in the locations map above.


-And now Georgia, Georgia although weakend by the constant mongol invasions from the previous century, at the 1337 start date Georgia was under a capable and pragmatic ruler of George V in which he managed to unify a politically fractured state and expel the Ilkhanate forces from the country securing Georgia's independence!

Although the current Tinto map is focused more on the Steppe's, the periphery shouldn't be ignored, and one location is of note the "Costa" location Costa's name comes from the Genoese who had built a trading post in the city's district. Now the expected thing to do is to give the Costa location to the Genoese and be done with it, however I am against giving locations to states simply because they had a trading post within the city, because if that's the case Constantinople should also be controlled by Genoa as they had their famous galata district, "Costa" or Sochi was also at the time part of the Georgian kingdom (it had been part of the kingdom from quite some time already) with which most likely the Genoese had been allowed by the Georgians to set up shop in the city.
IMG_20240928_100922.jpg

IMG_20240928_103745.jpg


So for the aforementioned reasons I suggest to give the "Costa" location to Georgia as I have highlighted in the locations map with red.
 

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  • East Dnipro instead of East Dnieper (correct Ukrainian spelling for consistency). But we can also pay tribute to the disappeared Duchy of Pereyaslav that had exactly the same borders and call this area Pereyaslav. Both are OK for me
Great post, just a small caveat: where English name exists, the game uses it as a default (you can have other languages for dynamic naming). So Rome, not Roma etc. English name Dnieper obviously exists and functions, so it would be used rather than Ukrainian. And frankly, it would be greater inconsistency to have a name half in English (East) and half in Ukrainian.

I'm noting that mostly so that you would take it into account for your other naming proposals - if some of the places you suggest have also English names it would be useful to point them out.
 
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Great post, just a small caveat: where English name exists, the game uses it as a default (you can have other languages for dynamic naming). So Rome, not Roma etc. English name Dnieper obviously exists and functions, so it would be used rather than Ukrainian. And frankly, it would be greater inconsistency to have a name half in English (East) and half in Ukrainian.

I'm noting that mostly so that you would take it into account for your other naming proposals - if some of the places you suggest have also English names it would be useful to point them out.
Anyway, my personal choice would be Pereyaslav, I have revorked completely areas and updated the post :)
 
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Wow. Thank you @Pavía and the whole team for your effort, another portion of beautiful content!
As always, I'm going to try to provide you with a reasonable feedback on the Ukrainian lands.

Firstly, I want to share a link to the project, where most of the known historic maps of Ukraine are gathered in high resolution:
Vkraina Project

Just in case you will find in useful.


COUNTRIES
  • Even though we lack any sources, I see no reason to make such a bordergore between Kyiv/Chernihiv, that Severian area has always been a part of Chernihiv influence and they have quite common history. That appendix should belong to the duchy of Chernihiv
  • Kyiv, Chernihiv, Volhynia and Halych paid the tribute to the Horde directly, not through Muscovy. That 'Tatar Yoke' IO should also reflect that.
  • From the early 14th century till 1410 the city of Bilhorod (Ukr.) / Akkerman (Tur.) (Cetatea Alba location) was a colony of Genoa called Moncastro. I knew it from the history of the town, but here is the link to the source:
The Oxford Dictionary Of Byzantium Vols 1-3, page 212 - ASPROKASTRON article.
View attachment 1194478
So maybe you should split this location into two smaller to reflect this.

View attachment 1195158

And my proposal for Kyiv/Chernihiv border:
View attachment 1195159


LOCATIONS
Obviously, most of the Steppe territory was almost empty without any settlements there, so you had to choose the location names that were founded centuries later after 1337. There could be just some better choices that are shorter, better to read or more correct. Where possible I will add Crimean Tatar names for dynamic naming.
  • Oster instead of Starogorodskaya (a well-known important historic town instead of a small village noone knows about)
  • Lubech instead of Ripky (a well-known important historic town instead of a small village noone knows about)
  • Nizhyn instead of Unenezh (Unenezh was destroyed by the Mongols, then it was Nizhyn, the name relevant for the game time frame)
  • Shostka instead od Seredyna-Buda (shorter name; bigger and much more significant town)
  • Putyvl instead of Buryn (a well-known medieval historic town founded in 1146 instead of a small village founded in the 1660-s)
  • Vorozhba instead of Lypova Dolyna (shorter name, easier to read)
  • Zinkiv instead of ...???... (the location between Poltava and Hadiach, I cannot even read it, shorter name, easier to read)
  • Aidar instead of Rovenki (those green near Valuyki) (because there are also Rovenky to the south, in Tana province, actually the same name in Ukrainian)
  • Hlobyne instead of ...???... (the location between Kremenchuk and Orzhytsia, I cannot read it, shorter name, easier to read)
  • Lozova or Berestyn instead of Krasnohrad (Krasnohrad is a non-relevant communist-era name, now it is Berestyn)
  • Svatove instead of ...???... (the location between Kupiansk and Kreminna, I cannot read it, shorter name, easier to read)
  • Starobilsk instead of ...???... (the location between Novoaidar and Novopskov, I cannot read it, shorter name, easier to read)
  • Usivka looks too big, can be split into Kamyanka and Usivka
  • Zavallya insted of Zavalye (correct spelling)
  • Zhovti Vody instead of Lykhivka (historically relevant location called 'yellow river', where a famous battle took place, later a settlement appeared with the same name)
  • Lysychi Bayrak instead of Lysychansk (early Cossack settlement, later became Lysychansk; also Tatar name origin)
  • Sokoly instead of Voznesensk (historical Lithuanian castle in the same place, existed early in the game)
  • Balka instead of Nova Odesa ('Odesa' appeared on maps 1793, so 'New Odesa' looks quite weird in 1337, chose another settlement nearby)
  • Kichkas instead of Zaporizhia (at that time Zaporizhia is a good name for the whole area, but not the location, Kichkas is now a part of Zaporizhia and a historic location where a Lithuanian Castle used to be to control Dnipro, also shorter name)
  • Rozdol instead of Berezivka (another settlement with more 'universal' name)
  • Novoazov instead of Shyrokyne (more universal name, Novoazovsk town nearby)
  • Domakha instead of Mariupol (early original Cossack settlement, much later became Mariupol)
  • Vitovtiv (Ukr.) / (Vithold) Hammami (Crimean tatar) instead of Nikolaev (existed there before Mykolaiv, a castle built by Vytautas in the 14th century)
  • Qizi Kermen (Crimean tatar) / Beryslav (Ukrainian, for dynamic naming) instead of Chrevonyi Mayak (strategic fortress built by the Crimeans in the 14th century instead of an unknown village, also shorter name, easy to read)
  • Lepetykha instead of ...???... (the location adjacent to Kyrylivka and Henichesk, I cannot read it, shorter name, easier to read)
  • Dashiv or Ochakiv (Ukrainian) / Özü (Crimean Tatar) instead of Ochakov (it's a bit complicated, it was an ancient settlement of Dashiv at that time, than taken by Lithuania and then in 1480 taken by the Crimean Tatars, after that it was called Aci-Kale and then Özü. So Ochakiv (Ukr.) / Oczakow (Pol.) / Ochakov (Rus.) appeared later from the Tatar name Aci-Kale. But in 1337 it was still Dashiv
  • Kochubiy (Ukrainian) / Khadjibey (Hacibey) (Turkish, Crimean Tatar) instead of Odesa (actually you also have Khadjibey nearby, but it is an error, Odesa and Khadjibey are the same place, just renamed in 1793. The fortress Kochubiy was founded by the Lithuanians between 1324 and 1415 (Koczubi in all Polish and Latin maps), then captured by the Ottomans and became Hacibey (Khdjibey).
  • Kinburn instead of Holyi Pereviz (important geographical location there, Kinburn peninsula, a fortress guarded the Dnipro estuary from the opposite side of Ochakiv)
  • Tendra instead of Aslan-Horod (Tendra is a peninsula exactly there, and Aslan-Horod is modern Kakhovka, it should be the location to the north)
  • Aslan-Horod (Ukrainian) / Islam-Kermen (Crimean Tatar) instead of ...???... (the location adjacent to Henichesk and to the north of your Aslan-Horod, I cannot read it; shorter name, easier to read, more proper location)
  • Or Qapi (Crimean Tatar) / Perekop (Ukrainian) instead of Kalay (Perekop is a strategic fortress that guarded the only entrance to the Crimea, it is a must)
  • Moncastro instead of Cetatea Alba for 1337 (belongs to Genoa, but Cetatea Alba is OK for Romanian dynamic name, Bilhorod for Ukrainian dynamic name, Akkerman for Turkish/Tatar. Maybe better split the location into two)
Also, I propose some easier location names that are based on the local lakes or rivers. I think it is a good option, this way we would have less irrelevant location names of the cities that were founded in the 18th-19th centuries.
And almost all of them have Tatar name origin, so they look natural both for Ukrainian and Tatar namings!
Also in most cases new settlements were actually connected with local geographical features as rivers, lakes, hills etc.
They are blue in the map:
  • Burluk instead of Shevelivka
  • Balakliya instead of Barvinkove
  • Oril instead of Samarchyk
  • Inhulets instead of Petrove
  • Inhul instead of Kropyvnytskyi
  • Torets instead of Slovyansk
  • Samar instead of Pavlohrad (currently the river is called Samara, but there is another Samara in Russia and Samar is the old name of this river, so it fits here perfectly and to distinkt it from Samara)
  • Luhan instead of Luhansk
  • Byk instead of Oleksandrivka
  • Yaly instead of Pokrovske
  • Bazavluk instead of Sofiivka (actually the Cossacks had the Bazavluk Sich)
  • Kalmius instead of Velyka Novosilka
  • Yelanchyk instead of Vasylivka (that eastern one, this is a must because you have two Vasylivkas!)
  • Haichur instead of Hulyaipole
  • Chortomlyk instead of ...???... (the location adjacent to Kryvyi Rih, also the Cossacks had the Chortomlyk Sich)
  • Bilozerka instead of Velyka Bilozerka (if I can read it correctly, no need to make it so long)
  • Vysun instead of Bereznehuvate
  • Chichikliya / Ciceklia instead of Veselynove (Tatar origin of the river name)
  • Kuyalnyk instead of Khadjibey (your Khadjibey is in the wrong location as I have already mentioned)
  • Tylihul instead of Kominternivske (absolutely non-relevant communist-era name)
  • Berda instead of Berdyansk
  • Utluk instead of Kyrylivka
  • Kalanchak instead of Chaplynka
The map:
View attachment 1195121

I also tried to add some Tatar/Turkish names (in green) for certain places, would be great for dynamic naming. Some of them are also local rivers, like Karachokrak in Vasylivka or Saksahan in Kryvyi Rih.
Other names mentioned in the map can be also used for Crimean Tatar (I mean those in blue and red fonts) if there is no better option, they are definitely better then Kyrylivka, Oleksandrivka or Voznesensk.
View attachment 1195122

Maybe if we have Crimean Tatars here or also Turkish guys would know better, feel free to add and correct me, I will update the post.

PROVINCES
For better representation of areas, some small rework is needed in the Chernihiv lands:
  • Transfer Sosnytsia and Novhorod-Siversky to Chernihiv province
  • Transfer Putyvl (Buryn) and Romny to Hlukhiv province
  • Lypova Dolyna province should be renamed to Sumy province (the dominant city)
This way these provinces will have 6, 5, 6 locations instead of 4, 5, 7 and will perfectly prepresent the historical border between Severia and Slobora-Ukraine historical regions (and areas in the game)

View attachment 1195160

Some changes relevant to the new proposed locations:
  • Nizhyn instead of Ichnia (much more historically important)
  • Chernihiv gets 2 more locations
  • Hlukhiv loses 2 locations to Chernihiv and gets 2 from Sumy
  • Sumy instead of Lypova Dolyna (much more historically important, gets 2 less locations)
  • Lozova instead of Krasnohrad (communist-era names are not relevant for the game)
  • Starobilsk instead of Bielska Sloboda (much more historically important)
  • Luhan instead of Luhansk
  • Kichkas or maybe even Sich (more flavourful) instead of Zaporizhia
  • Dnipro Steppe instead of Kherson
  • Bug instead of Ochakiv (important river alogn the whole province)
  • Kochubiy / Hacibey / Khadjibey instead of Odesa (much more relevant
  • Budzhak instead of Basarabia (Basarabia is much bigger and goes further to the north; that exact region is called Budzhak)
  • Kalanchak instead of Chaplynka (universal name for all relevant languages)
  • Or Qapi (or Perekop) instead of Kalay
View attachment 1195150


AREAS
Areas need to be reworked to better represent the historic areas of the region:
  • You have Chernihiv and Chernigov, that is obviously wrong :) Chernigov should be probably Bryansk and should include Gomel province, cause Black Ruthenia is quite big area
  • Chernihiv area can be actually Severia, an exact historic region of Ukraine like Galicia, Podolia, Volhynia, bud it should not go so fat to the east
  • Sloboda-Ukraine should be significantly moved to the south and include Izium, Karlivka and not include lipetsk, Yelets provinces. Sumy province has to be also there. And maybe you can change the name to one of shorter options: Sloboda, Slobodia (romanised Sloboda), Slobidshyna, Slobozhanshyna
  • Thus, Kursk Area should be created and include the historic lands of the Duchy of Kursk
  • Pereyaslav instead of East Dnieper to pay tribute to the disappeared Duchy of Pereyaslav that had exactly the same borders. Or Left Bank (Лівобережжя in Ukrainian). Or, lastly, East Dnipro for consistency with Ukrainian spelling in other places around. Or even you can include it in Ukraine Area. But my preference is Pereyaslav :)
  • Zaporizhia without the provinces of Kharkiv oblast will be just perfect this way
  • Yedisan was historically between the Dnister and Dnipro rivers, only around the Black Sea. It should not expand so far to Mariupol
  • Pryazovia or Pryazov instead of Posad, that means exactly the territory near the Sea of Azov and it gets the northern shore of the Azov Sea
  • If you have Lower Don, you can have Upper Don instead ov Azov, just an assumption :)
I have redrawn the areas in the location map:
View attachment 1195214

This way it matches with the historic areas of the region and looks quite balanced:
View attachment 1195220


VEGETATION
I have already mentioned it earlier, vegetation of Ukraine shoud be reworked:
View attachment 1194495

Here I will attach my notes from the Ruthenian feedback even with a scientific source:

And just on top of that the map from 1580 (take it as a minor proof:)):
View attachment 1194493


DEVELOPMENT
A couple of questions:
  • Chernihiv, East Dnipro regions should probably have just a bit higher development, like Volhynia. And definitely more than empty Steppes in the south.
  • Why do the Steppes to the east have higher development compared to others?
View attachment 1194496


CULTURE & RELIGION
You already mentioned about culture and religion borders that you will work on it.
My input is that Ruthenian and other local Slavic cultures should be expanded further to the south to Dnipro apids with at least some minor presence. But the overall population numbers should be very low, probably comparable to uncolonised lands.
The same applies to religions.
View attachment 1194772


NATURAL HARBORS
Two corrections needed:View attachment 1194576

Mykolaiv should be upgraded because of Bug estuary and what you have as Aslan-Horod (but better it is called Tendra) should be downgraded.
View attachment 1194497


RAW GOODS
In general I like it, but think that it could be a bit more diverse. Several important notes:
  • Cossack Left bank locations around Lubny, Poltava, Sumy, Hlukhiv - it was a huge saltpeter production region since the early XVI century, mostly ruled by cossack colonels and nobles. They exported a lot of it to Muscovy. Actually as far as I understand, the Cossacks dug the remnants of Kyivan border settlements and fortifications destroyed by the Mongols as well as ancient burial mounds in the steppe, so the saltpeter production was far more efficient than represented by the saltpeter works building in the game. It can be really considered as RGO and represented by at least 1 saltpeter RGO location.
  • Also, the territories of modern-day northern Ukraine (especially Chernihiv, Sumy oblasts) were a known centre for fiber crops production since the Kyivan Rus times till now. So please add several of fiber crops RGO locations there instead of wheat too.
  • Kryvyi Rih must have iron, it has one of the largest iron ore deposits. Even though the big industry was built there in the 19th century, the archaelogical excavations in the 19th and 20th centuries showed that some sorts of metallurgy activities had been present for 2000 years there.
  • Ukraine must have more clay locations, it was massively used for pottery and buildings.
  • Bakhmut and Sloviansk must have salt, these are well-known salt production centres since Cosaack times.
  • Probably you should also expand some wheat to the south to represent later ages when people migrated to the steppes more actively.
Unfortunately, all sources are in Ukrainian only:
I think these changes are quite relevant and would make this region more diverse.
View attachment 1194498

I'd like to thank you once more for your dedication and work and sorry for such a long post. But even now this level is something I could not dream of before.
Well, another big update to my feedback worth a separate post :D
This time it's provinces and a big rework of areas to match better the historical regions.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
PROVINCES
For better representation of areas, some small rework for 3 provinces is needed in the Chernihiv lands:
  • Transfer Sosnytsia and Novhorod-Siversky to Chernihiv province
  • Transfer Putyvl (Buryn) and Romny to Hlukhiv province
  • Lypova Dolyna province should be renamed to Sumy province (the dominant city)
This way these provinces will have 6, 5, 5 locations instead of 4, 5, 7 and will perfectly prepresent the historical border between Severia and Sloboda-Ukraine historical regions (and areas in the game):
NewProvinces.png


Some changes relevant to the new proposed locations:
  • Nizhyn instead of Ichnia (much more historically important)
  • Chernihiv gets 2 more locations
  • Hlukhiv loses 2 locations to Chernihiv and gets 2 from Sumy
  • Sumy instead of Lypova Dolyna (much more historically important, gets 2 less locations)
  • Krasny Kut instead of Krasnohrad (communist-era names are not relevant for the game)
  • Starobilsk instead of Bielska Sloboda (much more historically important)
  • Luhan instead of Luhansk
  • Uman instead of Torhovytsia (shorter name, much more important town)
  • Kichkas or maybe even Sich (more flavourful) instead of Zaporizhia
  • Kalmius instead of Posad
  • Berda instead of Melitopol
  • Dnipro Steppe instead of Kherson
  • Boh instead of Ochakiv (the old name of the Buh river, an important river and its estuary there)
  • Kochubiy / Hacibey / Khadjibey instead of Odesa (much more relevant
  • Budzhak instead of Basarabia (Basarabia is much bigger and goes further to the north; that exact region is called Budzhak)
  • Kalanchak instead of Chaplynka (universal name for all relevant languages)
  • Or Qapi (or Perekop) instead of Kalay
Provinces.png



AREAS
Areas need to be reworked to better represent the historic areas of the region:
  • You have Chernihiv and Chernigov, that is obviously wrong Chernigov should be probably Bryansk and should include Gomel province, cause Black Ruthenia is quite big area
  • Chernihiv area can be actually Severia, an exact historic region of Ukraine like Galicia, Podolia, Volhynia, bud it should not go so far to the east, new updated provinces represent it perfectly
  • Sloboda-Ukraine should be significantly moved to the south and include Izium, Karlivka and not include lipetsk, Yelets provinces. Sumy province has to be also there. And maybe you can change the name to one of shorter options: Sloboda, Slobodia (romanised Sloboda), Slobidshyna, Slobozhanshyna
  • Thus, Kursk Area should be created and include the historic lands of the Duchy of Kursk
  • Pereyaslav instead of East Dnieper to pay tribute to the disappeared Duchy of Pereyaslav that had exactly the same borders. Or Left Bank (Лівобережжя in Ukrainian). Or, lastly, East Dnipro for consistency with Ukrainian spelling in other places around. Or even you can include it in Ukraine Area. But my preference is Pereyaslav
  • Zaporizhia without the provinces of Kharkiv oblast will be just perfect this way
  • Yedisan was historically between the Dnister and Dnipro rivers, only around the Black Sea. It should not expand so far to Mariupol
  • Pryazovia or Pryazov instead of Posad, that means exactly the territory near the Sea of Azov and it gets the northern shore of the Azov Sea
  • If you have Lower Don, you can have Upper Don, but you probably need to switch them
I have redrawn the areas in the location map:
Areas.png


This way it matches with the historic areas of the region and looks quite balanced:
AreasUA.png


I highlighted all the areas I actually created.
 
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Islam should be far less prevalent among the tribal Turks of Golden Horde. Kazakh and Kyrgyz herdsmen were Islamicized completely in the 19th century by Kazani Tatar missions according to Hendrik Boeschoten in Routledge language family series. Tengri should rule northeast of the Caspian.
 
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A few comments:

Culture

I believe that Vyatka was closer to Novgorod than Moscow. It was a republic like Novgorod and its legendary founders came from Novgorod as well FWIW.

Vegetation

Marshes/swamps are sorely missing. There are a lot of them in modern Belarus and in certain areas of Northern Russia and they hindered passage of troops until quite recently.

Politics

Not sure why Nizhny Novgorod, a few other smaller Russian principalities are not under the Tatar Yoke. As far as I know they were subjects of the Golden Horde just like Muscovy, Ryazan and everyone else. As to Novgorod republic (not to be confused with Nizhny Novgorod) they were in a privileged position but they definitely paid some tribute to the Golden Horde in the middle of the 13th century under Alexander Nevsky. I'll need to check whether this was still the case in the mid-14th century.
 
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Well, another big update to my feedback worth a separate post :D
This time it's provinces and a big rework of areas to match better the historical regions.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
PROVINCES
For better representation of areas, some small rework is needed in the Chernihiv lands:
  • Transfer Sosnytsia and Novhorod-Siversky to Chernihiv province
  • Transfer Putyvl (Buryn) and Romny to Hlukhiv province
  • Lypova Dolyna province should be renamed to Sumy province (the dominant city)
This way these provinces will have 6, 5, 6 locations instead of 4, 5, 7 and will perfectly prepresent the historical border between Severia and Slobora-Ukraine historical regions (and areas in the game):
View attachment 1195225

Some changes relevant to the new proposed locations:
  • Nizhyn instead of Ichnia (much more historically important)
  • Chernihiv gets 2 more locations
  • Hlukhiv loses 2 locations to Chernihiv and gets 2 from Sumy
  • Sumy instead of Lypova Dolyna (much more historically important, gets 2 less locations)
  • Lozova instead of Krasnohrad (communist-era names are not relevant for the game)
  • Starobilsk instead of Bielska Sloboda (much more historically important)
  • Luhan instead of Luhansk
  • Kichkas or maybe even Sich (more flavourful) instead of Zaporizhia
  • Dnipro Steppe instead of Kherson
  • Bug instead of Ochakiv (important river alogn the whole province)
  • Kochubiy / Hacibey / Khadjibey instead of Odesa (much more relevant
  • Budzhak instead of Basarabia (Basarabia is much bigger and goes further to the north; that exact region is called Budzhak)
  • Kalanchak instead of Chaplynka (universal name for all relevant languages)
  • Or Qapi (or Perekop) instead of Kalay
View attachment 1195226


AREAS
Areas need to be reworked to better represent the historic areas of the region:
  • You have Chernihiv and Chernigov, that is obviously wrong Chernigov should be probably Bryansk and should include Gomel province, cause Black Ruthenia is quite big area
  • Chernihiv area can be actually Severia, an exact historic region of Ukraine like Galicia, Podolia, Volhynia, bud it should not go so fat to the east
  • Sloboda-Ukraine should be significantly moved to the south and include Izium, Karlivka and not include lipetsk, Yelets provinces. Sumy province has to be also there. And maybe you can change the name to one of shorter options: Sloboda, Slobodia (romanised Sloboda), Slobidshyna, Slobozhanshyna
  • Thus, Kursk Area should be created and include the historic lands of the Duchy of Kursk
  • Pereyaslav instead of East Dnieper to pay tribute to the disappeared Duchy of Pereyaslav that had exactly the same borders. Or Left Bank (Лівобережжя in Ukrainian). Or, lastly, East Dnipro for consistency with Ukrainian spelling in other places around. Or even you can include it in Ukraine Area. But my preference is Pereyaslav
  • Zaporizhia without the provinces of Kharkiv oblast will be just perfect this way
  • Yedisan was historically between the Dnister and Dnipro rivers, only around the Black Sea. It should not expand so far to Mariupol
  • Pryazovia or Pryazov instead of Posad, that means exactly the territory near the Sea of Azov and it gets the northern shore of the Azov Sea
  • If you have Lower Don, you can have Upper Don, but you probably need to switch them
I have redrawn the areas in the location map:
View attachment 1195231

This way it matches with the historic areas of the region and looks quite balanced:
View attachment 1195224

I highlighted all the areas I actually created.
I really don't like calling it "Pereyaslav" since there is no more Principality there, it hasn't existed for a long time, and that long time will only get longer as the game progresses. It wasn't an important city any more and nobody called the region that. Just call it Left-Bank Ukraine. That's the obvious and recognisable name.
 
I really don't like calling it "Pereyaslav" since there is no more Principality there, it hasn't existed for a long time, and that long time will only get longer as the game progresses. It wasn't an important city any more and nobody called the region that. Just call it Left-Bank Ukraine. That's the obvious and recognisable name.
Left-Bank is really more widespread, but in Ukrainian Переяславщина (Pereyaslavshyna) is also a normal historic term for this core lands of the destroyed Duchy of Pereyaslav even nowadays.
Actually, Pereyaslavshyna was also a province in the administrative division of Ukraine People's Republic in 1918.
Pereyaslav.png

So, I don't agree with 'nobody called', but actually I'm OK with both options :)
 
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for Castilian, there aren't any possible regional divides for 1337, as up into the 1230s, it would have been the same size as French and German cultures, but in 1337, there hasn't been enough diverging to make, let's say, 'Andalusian Castilian' a different culture).
I don't think there is a resoanble cause to baklanize Germany and France as much as you have either. You are lettring natonalism for cultures that never existed serve as a game play stand in for parochialism, and there are less ahsisotrical ways of handlign that.
 
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I saw some good and detailed posts about the potential dealing with certain anachronisms. The steppes were obviously less populated, but none seem to contest such a notion. Anachronistic naming (in Ukrainian or Russian, etc.) seems to be the most logical and least-bad option, in my opinion. Unless there were Tatar fortresses/settlements in the same spot.

But I'm personally against naming such locations after rivers/tribes, if there are indeed 17th/18th century Russian settlement-names for such locations. Obviously my own personal opinion, but more people might feel the same way. 19th/20th century names should be avoided, though (looking at you, Proletarsk).

Otherwise, love the setup. Very curious about all the religious/cultural minorities which still need implementing. And also loving the tradegood-setup (for Crimea, especially - which could be a good sign for a Salt-rich Transylvania).

Bakhmut should be a Salt-producing location, too, by the way. The cossacks operated some saltmining operations there, until it was industrialised (I see that @Kotyk-durkotyk has also mentioned this in his suggestion, mentioning Sloviansk, too).
 
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I saw some good and detailled posts about the potential dealing with certain anachronisms. The steppes were obviously less populated, but none seem to contest such a notion. Anachronistic naming (in Ukrainian or Russian, etc.) seems to be the most logical and least-bad option, in my opinion. Unless there were Tatar fortresses/settlements in the same spot.

But I'm personally against naming such locations after rivers/tribes, if there are indeed 17th/18th century Russian settlement-names for such locations. Obviously my own personal opinion, but more people might feel the same way. 19th/20th century names should be avoided, though (looking at you, Proletarsk).

Otherwise, love the setup. Very curious about all the religious/cultural minorities which still need implementing. And also loving the tradegood-setup (for Crimea, especially - which could be a good sign for a Salt-rich Transylvania).
I see you point, but it does not always work. I used river names only to avoid even worse situations.

I used actual later cossack settlement names where possible in the Wild Fields and Sloboda-Ukraine, I had no problem with that. And especially with Tatar names.

But the Horde or Crimean Tatars holding Voznesensk, Pokrovske or Sloviansk in 1337 just is weird. For those who don't understand, these cities have clear slavic ending -sk, -ske, and are named by some orthodox/christian holidays. The same weird as Proletarsk or Engels in 1337.

Let's look at Berdyansk, for example. It actually has its name from the local river Berda. And the Horde/Tatars holding Berda location feels OK, but the Horde holding Berdyansk feels weird, you see :D
And concerning the rivers, as I have mentioned, almost always you will find a village or settlement nearby with a similar name.

BUT modern Ukrainian names are absolutely OK for dynamic naming if Ruthenian duchies take these locations later.
 
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I saw some good and detailed posts about the potential dealing with certain anachronisms. The steppes were obviously less populated, but none seem to contest such a notion. Anachronistic naming (in Ukrainian or Russian, etc.) seems to be the most logical and least-bad option, in my opinion. Unless there were Tatar fortresses/settlements in the same spot.

But I'm personally against naming such locations after rivers/tribes, if there are indeed 17th/18th century Russian settlement-names for such locations. Obviously my own personal opinion, but more people might feel the same way. 19th/20th century names should be avoided, though (looking at you, Proletarsk).
The solution is obviously dynamic naming. This allows both the purging of Russian names in the steppes and the purging of forgotten nomadic names after Russia conquers the region. And I have no doubt that the game will have dynamic naming.
 
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The solution is obviously dynamic naming. This allows both the purging of Russian names in the steppes and the purging of forgotten nomadic names after Russia conquers the region. And I have no doubt that the game will have dynamic naming.
The thing is, a lot of these locations didn't have proper settlements, yet. Or had settlements which names are unknown to us. I'm all for dynamic naming, where it makes sense, but settlements should only be named after geographic entities if there's no other alternative (which happens in parts of Africa, for example), and never after 'fictional' interpretations.

Those Russian/Ukrainian names are, in my opinion, the least bad option. As long as they fit the timeframe.
 
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The thing is, a lot of these locations didn't have proper settlements, yet. Or settlements which are unknown to us.
I literally do not even remotely care. I just do not want to see locations everywhere I look named "Krasnoarmeyskoe" or whatever when I am playing a Turk or Mongol nation. Not a single one. How can this be controversial?
 
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