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Tinto Talks #40 - 4th of December 2024

Hello everyone and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the Happy Wednesday when we talk more about our upcoming top secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

This week we will go into details about the government reforms and look into some specific ones that you may use or not.

Representing everything from ancient traditions to progressive amendments, Government Reforms outline the shape of governance in a country. Each one is unique, but they often give powerful trade-offs or open up unique play styles.

At the start of the game, countries are only allowed 2 government reforms, but in every Age there is at least one advance that unlocks another slot for reforms. Some specific reforms also add another slot, so they are essentially “free” for that country. On average in the final Age of the game, a country may have 7 or 8 reforms.

Common Government Reforms that are available to everyone are likely to have an Age requirement, spreading out their availability over the game.

Some reforms are major reforms, and a country may not have more than one major reform at the same time.

There will be a diverse selection of reforms in each age, with about 5 common new ones added each age, and another 2 per government type. The unique ones are far more plentiful, and diverse, with over 150 currently in the game.

In the User Interface, the government reforms exist in the Crown’s part of the Estates Screen, as the Crown does not really have any estate privileges…

french_estates.png
France can have 3 reforms, but are the current ones actually beneficial?



Removing a Government Reform currently costs 20 stability, which is a bit cheap, but that may change. Some reforms can not be removed at will though, and are locked until specific circumstances allow them to be removed.

Adding a new reform does not have a cost, but it takes up to 2 years before the benefits are fully implemented.



Common Reforms
Here are some examples of early government reforms that many nations have access to from the start.

Religious Tolerance
For when your country is populated by people who practice different beliefs and confessions. Therefore, it would be prudent to govern in a tolerant manner with them, ensuring their support for the government.

religious_tolerance.png

It will make your country a bit more communal though..

Diplomatic Traditions
From time immemorial our people have favored the word above the sword, giving us the ability to forge lasting relationships with our allies and friends and a reputation as honest and loyal.

diplomatic_traditions.png

For certain types of countries, this is rather important..


Military Order
This is a major reform that catholic theocracies have access to. It is one of the types of reforms that truly defines a country.

The Military Orders were created in the Middle Ages as a militant body of the Catholic Church. Its members are both warriors and monks who take religious vows and are destined to defend and expand Christianity.

military_order.png

Military Sponsorships are vitally important to a Holy Order!



Unique Government Reforms
So let's take a look at some of the more unique government reforms that we have in the game right now.

Family Sagas
This is a unique reform that anyone with the primary culture of Icelandic can get, which both Iceland and Greenland starts with.

Our ancient sagas passed orally through the generations tell of adventurous expeditions to a distant and wild land over the western sea. Perhaps one day we may follow in the footsteps of our old compatriots.

family_sagas.png

If only they had the population to exploit it..

Three Departments
This is available to any country that has Chinese or Korean as their court language.

The Three Departments System originates from the ancient Chinese empires and is the primary administrative structure of the state. All departments focus on several aspects of the process of drafting, establishing and revisiting state policies.

three_departments.png

If you want laws changed, this is the reform to have..

Magna Carta
This is a unique reform that England starts with, and is also possible for any country with the English primary culture, or if their overlord has this reform.

The 'Great Charter' is a constitutional law that distributes power away from the monarch and towards the barons. First signed in 1215, it is also one of the earliest documents to enshrine the idea of civil liberties, such as the right to a fair trial, and protection against illegal imprisonment.

magna_carta.png

It gives some power to the nobility, and shapes the country towards certain ideals.


Stay tuned, as next week we will look into all the different types of Parliaments, and how you interact with them...
 
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Will some government reforms like this affect the name of the country? For example if I become a military order as a theocracy, would I get a cool new name (for example Livonia -> Livonian Order) etc?
 
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Magna Carta
This is a unique reform that England starts with, and is also possible for any country with the English primary culture, or if their overlord has this reform.

The 'Great Charter' is a constitutional law that distributes power away from the monarch and towards the barons. First signed in 1215, it is also one of the earliest documents to enshrine the idea of civil liberties, such as the right to a fair trial, and protection against illegal imprisonment.

View attachment 1226078
It gives some power to the nobility, and shapes the country towards certain ideals.


Stay tuned, as next week we will look into all the different types of Parliaments, and how you interact with them...

The Magna Carta reform should also be available to Flanders, as I previously explained here in TM1 Feedback.
Some other Germanic duchies apparently also had similar charters, but I couldn't find any concrete examples. Anyone else who has more info on these?

Edit: although the Flanders variant should also give power to the Burghers instead of only nobility.
 
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Imagine if with "Can Invite Settlers", you can invite from other countries, that way it wouldn't matter how big your own population is, since you can "steal" from other countries.

There are a few limits though.
 
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View attachment 1226108

I gotta say, I never know how to feel about this. On one hand I have to recognise that vikings did set foot in Canada. On the other, it frustrates me to see this being put on the same level of ability as Iberian explorations, mechanics-wise. Even if it's held back by population, it just always feels like an ahistorical leg-up.

I can already tell it's not going to be a popular comment to make, but I just think that if the Icelandic or Norweagian really were specially prepared to be part of the colonial powers more than, let's say, the Bretons or the Irish or the Scots, we would have seen major colonies in the game period, as opposed to the Americas' colonisation being utterly dominated by Iberians for almost a century.
Agreed. This is 100% a meme policy. Going to end up with common Vinland exploits on day one.
 
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Wy shouldn't it be? There is evidence that the Norse might have briefly settled Madeira too, it is directly comparable, they just didn't have the adequate technology 4-5 centuries prior.

I agree.
 
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hmmm

the system on paper is good, the only thing that I don't like too much is how it basically is the new "idea system", as it basically it shifts the tradition ledgers. I would kinda like them to be separate, as it feels much like "starting idea benefits" (government reforms) and "idea group completed" (tradition ledger fully on one side or the other. Also I hope that there's a planned rework for what the ledger bonuses are / adding more ledgers (given the many more suggested in the comments in that Tinto Talk)

Besides this, yeah. I quite like it
 
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Can Estates force a Reform on me if they are unhappy and powerfull enough?
Like if i am a weak absolutist king, and the nobles want more freedoms.

Or if cleregy hates the "religious tolerance" reform, and would much rather have the opposite.
 
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Holidays are coming it seems, this was a bit shorter and way too general than what I would have expected.

yeah sorry.. been a bit busy atm working on the game.
 
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Maybe a better name would be "Governing Principles" and rename "Crown" to "Government"

1. Reform means it changed from A to B, and thus starting with a "reform" makes little sense
2. Crown makes no sense for countries that aren't monarchies - and many of countries in 1337 won't be. It's funny to think the famously republican Venetians will be using "Crown" to represent the power of the ruling oligarchy.


Other than the naming, I'm fine with the mechanic.





Ah also
Why isn't Magna Carta a law? It literally is one. Even you yourself state that.
 
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Can there be certain government "reforms" that make abandoning or adopting other reforms cheaper OR more expensive?

I.e., could you for example mod in one that makes changing reforms incredibly expensive, effectively soft-locking the state into the same situation it has been in the start, unless the player wants to spend like -90 stability or something?

Also, I assume most of the "60 countries with the same amount of flavour as England" will probably get some of their own reforms, right?
 
Unsure how to feel about reforms. I wish they were gotten into a bit more, IDK they seem simultaneously important and also not, feels like they should be more involved.


The Magna Carta reform should also be available to Flanders, as I previously explained here in TM1 Feedback.
Some other Germanic duchies apparently also had similar charters, but I couldn't find any concrete examples. Anyone else who has more info on these?
I feel that would be best served with simply a generic "Noble Charters" reform that is a bit weaker but covers similar things. Rather than just giving everyone the Magna Carta.
 
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Could we have the 7 partidas as a starting government reform for Castile? Pretty please? It basically defined what government should be in Spain for centuries and was still referenced in th XIXth century.
The 'Siete Partidas' is implemented in the game but as a unique policy in the Legal Code law. ;)
 
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Looks very nice and flavourful!

Does it also mean that we can change reforms every several years if we want?

If yes, it looks more like temporary national focus rather than reform (as I feel this word). Maybe there should be a cooldown period. Or only new ruler can change a reform if there is enough crown power. Or only a certain law or parliament can allow changing reform.
 
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I'd wish the amount of reforms were a bit more dynamic than being heavily tied to ages.

Some states had a sophisticated governmental structure a thousand years before this game, and that the Europeans start scooting around in boats shouldn't really change the government's in say China.
 
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