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In other news...

Our attempts continue in an effort to design a defensive mine that actually works.

Our Petard mk2 has been researched and several of them are building now.

Our Petard mk3 (which is just a mk2 stuck on top of a dummy booster, making a three-stage missile) is in research.
 
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Force Randakar has arrived with 280,000 tons of Navy.

Another 500,000 tons of slower warships are following him. They'll arrive in another four days.
 
With 850,000 tons of our Navy cruising through the Harmony star system, the Modrons shut right up about us packing up and getting out.

LOL.

Now we ask THEM to get out.

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Pardon?

sc-2120.jpg


sc-2121.jpg


That star system has been part of our Empire since 1964 (!) and we established a Naval base in 2006, mined out the most valuable comets, and withdrew the mines (maintaining the Naval presence for trade route protection).

What are the Jerx doing on a comet?
 
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What are the Jerx doing on a comet?
Picturing a bunch of Jerx anchored on a comet (so they don’t float off) muttering to each other that you’ll never notice them there…:D

“We’ll get those ugly space aliens this time! They’ll never see us coming! As soon as the stars and planets are aligned…Bang! Zoom! To the moon, Alice!”

(Why [and how] were they watching The Honeymooners?!)

I think I better get some sleep soon. ;)
 
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What are the Jerx doing on a comet?

The only thing I can think of is that it contained a civilian mine and they invaded it. But we should have noticed that, right?
 
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With 850,000 tons of our Navy cruising through the Harmony star system, the Modrons shut right up about us packing up and getting out.

LOL.

Now we ask THEM to get out.

Well, good.
We just have to show some teeth.
The fun thing is that if they concede they will hand over those mining colonies.

Free auto mines for us :D

.. well, it did cost us an ungodly amount of fuel and we risked a war over it, but .. free!


Meanwhile the Børk are doing the exact same thing at the ZNZ.. of course they want to mine it. So do we. And we already are.
 
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I'm gonna send something over half a million tons of Navy to Harmony, and then ask again, not quite so politely.
Only issue is that according to what Randy posted then it accounts for systems cut off too, meaning it'd factor in the value of every single of our systems...
 
The only thing I can think of is that it contained a civilian mine and they invaded it. But we should have noticed that, right?
Didn't we have an infestation in that system preciously.
Perhaps they took it then and then we just didn't get close enough to that comet until now.

And would we get a mention for jerx attacked civvies, but we never saw them on out radars?
Free auto mines for us :D
Would those be higher level than ours if they have higher mining tech?
 
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Only issue is that according to what Randy posted then it accounts for systems cut off too, meaning it'd factor in the value of every single of our systems...
No, that's not how this works.

1) They haven't explored beyond Harmony AFAIK so they can't add those systems to the calculation in the first place.
2) This is seen from their perspective. As in, they will use their own claimed territory for this calculation, not systems they don't even have presence in.
 
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Didn't we have an infestation in that system preciously.
Perhaps they took it then and then we just didn't get close enough to that comet until now.

If Emu evacuated a bunch of mines from old mining colonies on those comets it's not impossible that it was an empty husk - a colony with nothing in it.

If that's invaded we don't really have any way to tell - no pops, no sensors, no nothing. But the Jerx may still see it as a viable target because it's 'a colony'.


And would we get a mention for jerx attacked civvies, but we never saw them on out radars?

We should. But maybe there weren't even civvies there. See above.

Would those be higher level than ours if they have higher mining tech?

Mines don't have levels. Mining tech is a global modifier for our entire empire.
 
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No, that's not how this works.

1) They haven't explored beyond Harmony AFAIK so they can't add those systems to the calculation in the first place.
2) This is seen from their perspective. As in, they will use their own claimed territory for this calculation, not systems they don't even have presence in.

To extrapolate, I linked part 3 of the series.
Part 2 talks about how NPR's determine what they consider theirs, amongst other things:



Diplomacy Part 2: Intrusion into NPR Territory

In each construction phase, each NPR will determine a value for each known system. In order of ascending importance, the values are: Alien Controlled, Neutral, Claimed, Secondary, Primary, Core, Capital. The value is calculated on a number of different factors, including existing population and installations, whether it is a logistics node, mining potential, terraforming potential and proximity to other important systems. Neutral is the default state for a system in which the NPR has no current interest, while Alien Controlled is a system which the NPR acknowledges is in the territory of another race as a result of accepting a claim from that race (see Part 3).

If you have forces or a population in a system that has at least Secondary value to an NPR, you are detected and you are currently viewed as neutral or friendly, the NPR will issue a warning which will appear as an event. This will still happen even if you haven't detected any NPR forces. You will be notified which fleet or population received the message. If communication has not been established, you will receive notification of an "unintelligible communication of unknown origin". If you have established communication, the text will reflect the severity of the situation.

This communication can be as mild as a suggestion that your forces leave in the near future and as strong as demanding you depart immediately or be fired upon. There are five levels of severity for messages and the one chosen by the NPR primarily depends on the 'Threat Level' (see below), although it may also issue a stronger warning at lower threat levels if the NPR believes that war will soon follow without a player withdrawal.

The threat level is based on three factors; the NPR’s estimate of the value of the system, any status modifiers due to the existing diplomatic relations and the Xenophobia of the NPR. This is calculated as follows:

Threat Level = Base Threat Level * Status Modifier * (Racial Xenophobia / 100)

Base Threat Level
Secondary = 2.5
Primary = 5
Core = 10
Capital = 20

Status Modifiers
Friendly Status = 0.5
Neutral with Diplomatic Points >= 1
Neutral with Diplomatic Points < 0 = 2

In addition to the messages, the threat levels generate a negative impact on diplomatic relations. The penalty in diplomatic points for intrusion into NPR territory is based on the Threat Level above plus the ships and population that the NPR can detect. The calculation for the annual point penalty is as follows:

Diplomatic Point Penalty = SQRT(Total Detected Ship Tonnage + (Total Detected Population EM Signature * 10)) * Threat Level

Each construction phase, the diplomatic penalty applied is equal to the annual penalty multiplied by (Construction Phase Length / Year)

Shipping Line vessels will be ignored for this purpose if a trade treaty is in force. NPRs will treat ships without military engines that have not demonstrated any weapon capability as 10% of their normal tonnage. If at least one ship is detected, the minimum rating for Detected Ship Tonnage will be 1000 tons. If at least one population is detected, the minimum rating for Population EM Signature will be 100. NPRs deduct 10,000 tons from the tonnage of one Diplomatic Ship (see Part 8) per system for threat purposes if that class type has never fired weapons and the Diplomatic Ship is in a non-Core system. If the NPR only has one system, it is not treated as core for this purpose.

This table shows the diplomatic point penalties for different ship tonnages in different value systems, assuming an NPR Xenophobia of 50. For populations, use EM Signature * 10 for ‘Tonnage’.



The warning message is issued during the first construction phase after detection and repeated during each subsequent construction phase where the violation still exists. Allied Races do not receive warnings as they can freely enter the NPR territory. Hostile races do not receive warnings as they are attacked instead. Trading will allow some exceptions to the rules above and I'll cover that in a future post. I will also cover situations where the NPR considers claiming a system with a large existing player population in the 'Alien Controlled' update.
 
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Note the first paragraph: "Known systems". So if it hasn't discovered a system - which is basically 95% of our territory - then it won't be considered at all.

Beyond that, the rest of the paragraph talks about how it determines the status of a system, and how much presence the NPR has in a system is a factor.

The warnings mean Harmony has secondary value. It's obviously a mining node, which counts, but it's also close to their home world, which also counts.
But it's probably not much higher than that.
 
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As an aside - how many tons are our diplomatic vessels?

NPRs deduct 10,000 tons from the tonnage of one Diplomatic Ship (see Part 8) per system for threat purposes if that class type has never fired weapons and the Diplomatic Ship is in a non-Core system. If the NPR only has one system, it is not treated as core for this purpose.

So a diplomatic ship with commercial engines will count as 1/10th it's tonnage and has 10.000 tons subtracted from its tonnage for the purpose of diplomatic penalties.

Means you can put a 10.000 ton diplomatic vessel close to their home system without any penalties. And if it has commercial engines, that limit may be 100.000 tons instead.
 
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No, that's not how this works.

1) They haven't explored beyond Harmony AFAIK so they can't add those systems to the calculation in the first place.
2) This is seen from their perspective. As in, they will use their own claimed territory for this calculation, not systems they don't even have presence in.
Ah, so even if they knew our entire empire, they'd not base it on all thr systems, as they dint claim them?
If Emu evacuated a bunch of mines from old mining colonies on those comets it's not impossible that it was an empty husk - a colony with nothing in it.
Ah, so a place there's nothing left?
Not even any life support?
Mines don't have levels. Mining tech is a global modifier for our entire empire.
But wouldn't the mines have better gear than what we can produce. How does that randomly get downgraded just because we take it over.
Or is it we can't operate it? Perhaps it can be reverse engineered then.

If the NPR automatically detect you in important systems, how can yo8h then intrude with a pop?

What relations give the friendly status?
 
Ah, so even if they knew our entire empire, they'd not base it on all thr systems, as they dint claim them?

Something along those lines. The description doesn't say how a NPR decides what it views as claimed, except in vague terms.


Ah, so a place there's nothing left?
Not even any life support?

Yes.

But wouldn't the mines have better gear than what we can produce. How does that randomly get downgraded just because we take it over.
Or is it we can't operate it? Perhaps it can be reverse engineered then.

The game does not account for any of that.

If the NPR automatically detect you in important systems, how can yo8h then intrude with a pop?

They don't. If they don't see any ships they won't send warnings either, or count it towards threat level.


What relations give the friendly status?

According to the wiki:
  • 199 to -100 is Neutral
  • 200 is Trade allowed
  • 800 is Friendly & Geo-survey info can be traded
  • 2400 Gravsurvey sharing allowed
  • 4000 Allied Status allowed
  • 6000 Research can be shared
 
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OK... we've got a few (17) of the Petard Mk2 Mines built... enough to test.

The problem that we're trying to correct is that the mines disappear immediately after being placed... about five seconds later.

There may be other problems with them as well, but we can't even find out about the other issues until we correct this problem.

So with the Mk2 version, I've added a few drops of fuel (but no engine to BURN the fuel) in the hope that it's just some malfunctioning "out of fuel" code that is causing the issue.

If this doesn't work, we'll try (the Mk3) mounting the mine on a dummy booster which we WILL allow to run out of fuel. Hopefully only the booster will get removed.
 
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The test failed, but this time we LEARNED something from it.

We set up a way-point and placed the mines.

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Five seconds later, the mines fire off their warheads, even though no enemy target exists.

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Thirty seconds after that, the warheads ran out of fuel and were removed from the game.

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OK... at least now we know what the failure mode is, so we can start making sensible efforts to work around it.

We'll start by building and testing the Mk3, even though it's just a Mk2 on top of a dummy booster. It's nearly researched anyway.

After that, I have a few other ideas already.
 
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