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Tinto Talks #42 - 18th of December 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesday where we give you information about our upcoming super secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

This week we will be talking about the disaster system, which has been present in different forms in recent GSG games from Paradox.

Disasters
There are two major differences between a disaster and a situation. The first is that a disaster is almost always negative, and secondly a disaster is always for a specific country. While multiple situations can be active and involving a country at the same time, only a single disaster can happen at the same time.

There are also two categories of disasters. The specific historical narratives, and the generic ones that can happen to anyone under the right circumstances.

Disasters in Project Caesar are not just a modifier applied to the country, and some events triggering until you fulfill the winning conditions, but you also get unique actions you can do to affect the disaster.

Let's start looking at some common more generic disasters.

Court and Country
Resistance to the growing centralization in our country has culminated in a period of general crisis and conflict between Court and Country. Depending on how we handle this time of crisis we might come out of it a stronger country than before.

This disaster can happen to any country with strong Absolutism or Crown Power in the Age of Absolutism or Age of Revolution.

court_and_country.png

The Nobility has taken the biggest offence to this plan

As you can see above here the UI for this disaster shows your current crown power, and the power of your estates, while also showing the rebel closest to starting a civil war. It also lists the current actions you have in the disaster. Here we cannot rein in the Nobility, as they are too strong already.

Two of the icons above have special tooltips that are useful for you as well.

end_condition.png

You have to endure it for at least a decade..

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In case you don’t know how to increase crown power..


Religious Turmoil
religious_turmoil.png


Despite the country's efforts to mediate between the different religious groups in our nation, conflicts have been erupting on a regular basis. The situation has worsened and without drastic measures, we will soon be engulfed in a religious civil war.

This disaster can occur during the Age of Reformation for any Catholic country or any country following any Protestant religion, if they have a low enough religious unity and a weak clergy estate.

To get out of this disaster there are multiple ways: get religious unity higher; get the power of the clergy much higher as a spiritualist; or go full humanist, while restoring stability.

While this disaster is happening, there will be a lot of conflict from religious minorities in the country.



If we look into some of the country specific ones, we have a few here, and we don’t want to spoil them all..

The Rise of Savonarola
savonarola.png


An upstart preacher has started to spread his apocalyptic message, advocating for repentance and reform. His message is causing quite a stir among the population, and it's for sure a sign of changing times.

This is a disaster that is likely to happen to Florence in the last decades of the 15th century, if they are a Catholic republic.

To get out of this disaster you either have to become a Theocracy or Savonarola will have to die.


War of the Roses
war_of_the_roses.png


Two junior branches of the House of Plantagenet, the House of Lancaster and the House of York, both claim to be the rightful heir to the throne of England. Sporadic fights between their supporters have already broken out in a number of provinces around the country. Their heraldic symbols, a red rose and a white rose, have already become synonymous with the conflict now commonly known as the War of the Roses.

This is a specific disaster for England which can happen during the 15th century if the ruling dynasty is Plantagenet, and some specific historical events have happened. It will allow you to side with either York or Lancaster as it will build up to a civil war for the throne.



So, which historical events do you think would be best represented by a disaster? Post your suggestions here..

Now, you either get a Christmas present next Wednesday, or you get a lump of coal…
 
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I was expecting some mention to the Black Plague :( Also, not very keen on only one Disaster happening at a time, why there can't be Religious Turmoil while there is a period of general crisis and conflict between Court and Country?
 
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Guys, I'm trying to be as frank as I can, without any malice.

The UI looks terrible. Anything shown in this DD fails both in asthetic and User Experience. Please, please PLEASE consult with the artists of CK3 and Vic3. This is an abomination and waaay below modern Paradox standards.
The devs have said so many times by now that the UI is WiP.
 
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Is the English Civil War a disaster?

I presume the War of the Two Peters in Spain will be a situation? or part of the 100y war at least?

The Castillian Civil War between crown and nobles which ended with Isabel I on the Throne i presume is already in.
 
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Since the UI is WIP, I am putting forward a suggestion to work on:
Please, please, please for the love of all that is holy to you, allow us to see how long we've had the disaster - either by putting a "start date" somewhere, saying next to the requirement how many years its been or when it will be 10 years!
 
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There are gameplay reasons to have only one at once, as the game ≠ real life.
At the risk of being insolent, could you list some of them? I was never really fond of this restriction, and while you are right that the game ≠ real life, there were multiple instances where bad stuff compounded. Just look at the 100 years war and the Black Death, or the Byzantine civil war and the Black Death, and yeah, even if in gameplay terms these are compounding situations in the first case or a disaster and situation happening simultaneously in the second case, and they aren't touched by this restriction, the line feels very thin. And I'm sure if I was to search a little I could find an example where two events which would be classified as disasters by PC's criteria happened at the same time to a country.
 
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Noted, do you have a good ref to follow for circa 1400?
Not original question giver but check those out.
-Royal Seal of Casimir III the Great from 1334
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-Coat of arms of Louis of Anjou from Gelre Armorial, Polish king from 1370 to 1382
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-Chancery Seal of Władysław II Jogailla from 1390s (upper left corner has Polish eagle)
1734534053779.png


-Collection of seals of Casimir IV Jagiellon 1440-1492
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-Court Banner of Sigismund II Augustus from c. 1550 from Wawel Castle in Kraków (original and reconstruction), SA are the king's monogram
1734533584234.png

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-Coats of arms of France and Poland-Lithuania from 1585 on Tour l'Horloge at Concergerie in Paris. It was orderd by Henry III of Valous, Polish and later French king.
1734532820009.png


-Modern take on Banner of Kingdom of Poland from 14th to 16th centuries
1734534690065.png
 
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My suggestion regarding the Georgian Collapse is literally 1:1 of what happened to Hungary at that time, but according to Pavía, it's best to be left as a situation.
A minor problem is that they are both a bit small for a situation (compared to the likes of, for example, the Black Plague or the Fall of Yüán), but too international for a disaster; though given that similarly small events like the Hussite Wars or the Hundred-Year War are also rather restricted geographically to one or two regions, so probably not out of the scope.
 
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What would you think about adding some decadence disasters for big countries? If you lose your country explodes and if you win you get some buffs and you will be safe for 50-75 years. There could be different ones to make sure it to be not get repetitive. Also it would be good if this disasters scale and change with the time
 
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A minor problem is that they are both a bit small for a situation (compared to the likes of, for example, the Black Plague or the Fall of Yüán), but too international for a disaster; though given that similarly small events like the Hussite Wars or the Hundred-Year War are also rather restricted geographically to one or two regions, so probably not out of the scope.
Well, with there being no middle ground, I suppose all small countries are doomed with regards to flavour...

ფაქტის ყვაყი.jpg
 
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Is the American Revolution a Disaster from the perspective of a GB player? Or is that just a generic "Colonial Independence" Disaster that might happen to a GB player?
 
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There are gameplay reasons to have only one at once, as the game ≠ real life.
So gameplay reasons, but not mechanical/engine limitations? I imagine people might disagree on those gameplay reasons actually necessitating the limit, though I am curious about the reasoning!

So what would you say are those gameplay reasons?
 
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Will there be a disaster for whenever a country has a ruler of a different faith than the people, or would this be handled with just a small popular opinion modifier of some sort? Queen Christina of Sweden abdicated to convert to Catholicism, Augustus II of Saxony converted to be acceptable to the Polish people, and of course in England the people revolted against James II for having a Catholic heir in a Protestant country. Particularly in the British Isles it seems they were not fond of having heretical rulers.
 
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Some Disasters for Ottomans I remember:
1. Ottoman Interragnum
I think this is one of the most important disaster for early game Ottomans. After the death of Bayezid I as prisoner of Timur, sons of him started a civil war that last 10 years.

2. Celali Rebellions
Celali is a general term for rebellions on Anatolia but first one happened in 1519 but the major one happened in1598. This rebellions lasted almost a century and even Ottoman Sekban soldiers were involved. Celali Rebellions happened not because they want to change goverment but they wanted better life conditions as Little Dark Ages happened during those times.

3. Jannissaries

Janissaries were established in 1363 ( hope they weren't available for Ottomans day one.) and they rebelled several times. I think there might be a Jannissary Balance mechanic for Ottomans. They constantly rebelled during their time there are a lot of recorded incidents and they even murdered Sultan II. Osman (probably they sexually abused him before execution...)

4. Sultanate of Woman
There was a interesting period in the history of Ottoman Empire starting with Hürrem Sultan and most notably Kösem Sultan and later Turhan Sultan (This can add as a flavor too that's up to you guys game design. ). They were influenced politics a lot and probably more than anyone can imagine. At one point Kösem Sultan was literally ruled Ottoman Empire. I think there could be appease Valide Sultan mechanic too.

5. Decadence or Decline of Ottomans
EU4 already have this so I don't want to explain but like EU4 it could make more disasters like Eyalet Rebellions or Minority Rebellions.
 
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