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Tinto Maps #30 - 20th of December 2024 - South America

Hello and welcome to one Friday of map-loving! Today is special, as our 30th Tinto Maps, devoted to South America, is the last regular one. This implies that it won’t be the last, though - we plan to have two Tinto Maps Extra on December 27th and January 3rd, and then we will continue with the Tinto Maps Feedback posts as we progress with the map review.

But don’t worry, as on the first post-Christmas Friday, January 10th, I will start a new series, Tinto Flavor, in which we will show the content that we have been working on for Project Caesar. And I promise you, it’s a ton of content, so you will have to play the game in due time to discover it all…

Before we continue, one note: as we're covering a lot of lands today, don't be shy and ask for more detailed maps of the type you want wherever you want them, and I'll try to provide in the replies. And now, let’s start with the South American maps:

Countries
Countries1.png

Countries2.png

Countries3.png

Most of the countries that can be considered being at a State-wise level in 1337 are mostly concentrated in what is today Perú. We have famous ones, as the Chimu or Chincha, and you may also see a tiny country, Qusqu, which would later become the Inca Empire, the long-term goal while playing in the region.

Dynasties
Dynasties1.png

Dynasties2.png


SoPs
Sops1.png

Sops2.png

Sops3.png

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There are SoPs spread out all across the continent, making for a really interesting mix in the Peruvian area (again). We're already thinking about how to better visualize the coexistence of these two types of countries in the political layer, but it's going to take us some more time to get there.

Locations
Locations1.png

Locations2.png

Locations3.png

Locations4.png

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One note: I'll talk a bit more in-depth about the design of the Brazilian locations if you scroll down, in the Terrain section.

Provinces
Provinces1.png

Provinces2.png

Provinces3.png


Areas
Areas1.png

Areas2.png


Terrain
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

There are huge geographical variations in South America, being one of the most diverse continents. One of the things I wanted to discuss is that we've tried to portray the Mata Atlântica, the original forest cover that was present in Brazil before the Portuguese colonized it, and a different type of land exploitation started. In this regard, we've been reading the feedback of the Brazilian community, and I want to say that our intention here is to portray the most realistic situation for 1337. That said, we've already internally discussed that we may reduce its scope, so it doesn't look so extreme, but we'd like to hear your opinions about it. And here you have one of the images that we used as a reference for it, so you get a good grasp of our intention:
Mata Atlantica.png

Development
Development.png


Natural Harbors
Harbors1.png

Harbors2.png


Culture
Cultures1.png

Cultures2.png

Cultures3.png

Cultures4.png

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Cultures6.png

The jewel of the crown in this region. We've tried to portray the Pre-Columbian cultural diversity of these lands as accurately as possible, and, well, here you have the results.

Languages
Languages1.png

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Languages3.png

And the languages that group these cultures.

Religions
Religions1.png

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Religions3.png

We've tried to do our best to group the cultural religions of South America into different groups, based on common believes, gods, rituals, etc. Let us know what do you think of them. Oh, also, the Inti religion has its own differentiate mechanics, which we'll explain in the future!

Raw Goods
Raw Materials1.png

Raw Materials2.png

Raw Materials3.png

Raw Materials4.png

Lots of different natural resources in South America. You may note that some are more common compared to other regions (such as Medicaments). We've also been tweaking the color of different resources, with the help of your feedback!

Markets
Markets.png

The green market is centered around Teyuna, and the red one is Chinchay.

Population
Some issues with the map of the region this week (sadly), so let's discuss the numbers. The total in the continent is 10.22M, divided this way:
  • 1.66M in Colombia
  • 1.2M in Brazil
  • 5.07M in Andes
  • 877K in Chaco
  • 1.4M in La Plata
And that's all for today! We hope that you enjoyed the Tinto Maps series! We've definitely done, and it's also greatly helping us to make Project Caesar a much better game, with your help and feedback. Cheers!
 
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RaccoonCity said:
IMHO: because of the time period, America should feel more relevant than Africa, so Wastelands should be defreased in America and increased in Africa
Click to expand...
Africa and South America both deserve more than their current portrayal in this game. Hopefully with all the feedback, the devs will make South America a rich place like it is irl.
 
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Pavía said:
One note. When depicting these types of corridors, a standard we use is 'Could an army with cannons and supply wagons cross it?', because that's a possible behavior in the game that we want to take care of. So, even if Orellana managed to go downstream the Amazon with 50 men, it doesn't necessarily mean that a colonial army could use the same route, which is an extra reason not to portray it, not even as a corridor.
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This is fair, though in the case of the route from Brazil to Peru I think there is a contemporary demonstration of moving a significant enough force along it: Pedro Teixeira's expedition in 1637 from Maranhão to Quito was quite large, apparently including 47 canoes and some 2000 persons, mostly natives.
 
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By the way, can I ask for a zoomed out location map? Or at least one that covers all of Brazil.

Holbenilord said:
This is fair, though in the case of the route from Brazil to Peru I think there is a contemporary demonstration of moving a significant enough force along it: Pedro Texeira's expedition in 1637 from Maranhão to Quito was quite large, apparently including 47 canoes and some 2000 persons, mostly natives.
Click to expand...

And he travelled upstream, even!
 
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LordOfAnts said:
View attachment 1233689
Why is all of this impassable terrain? I live in this region and couldn't think why you could have come to this decision.
The whole region is today one of the most densely inhabited in Brazil, and was an economic and political centre in the later stages of Brazilian colonial history, as well as one of the first regions where colonization expanded inland.
The under representation of São Paulo and the region around it baffles me, considering how important it was in expanding the colony inland, as well as the importance of the indigenous people living there in early colonization, including the Tamoios.
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Yeah, this that idea that tropical jungle = impassable terrain is super incorrect!
 
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we've tried to portray the Mata Atlântica, the original forest cover that was present in Brazil
Click to expand...
Love this.
we've already internally discussed that we may reduce its scope a bit, so it doesn't look so extreme,
Click to expand...
I don't really see this as a compelling or worthwhile reason at all to deviate from historical accuracy.
 
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Bisonmask said:
Markets in game aren't the same thing as market economies, they're networks of goods exchange which the Inka absolutely did have both within and outside their territory

That these markets were generally state controlled doesn't make them not markets in gameplay terms

I'd also love to see this system in game though, especially given the Inka Empire was unusual due to scale moreso than inventing the system
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Good point. But I do agree that there should be some way to represent the lack of internal markets in the Incan Empire and a lack of money
 
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Could we have a map of locations/terrain centered on Southeastern Brazil (São Paulo / Minas Gerais / Espirito Santo / Rio de Janeiro)? Right now it's always split in two images so it's harder to doodle proposals on top of it.
 
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Conde de Montanelas said:
The French didn't take São Luís do Maranhão from the Portuguese, the French founded the settlement (hence São Luís, from Saint Louis Roi de France).
The Portuguese were the ones who took it, later on.
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Acknowledged. The portuguese first founded a town there in the 1550's, named Narazé, but it was abandoned due to the indigenous people's ferocity.
 
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Trovador said:
Could we have a map of locations/terrain centered on Southeastern Brazil (São Paulo / Minas Gerais / Espirito Santo / Rio de Janeiro)? Right now it's always split in two images so it's harder to doodle proposals on top of it.
Click to expand...
The one that I just posted is good enough?
 
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TilFolkvang said:
Love this.

I don't really see this as a compelling or worthwhile reason at all to deviate from historical accuracy.
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Historically, many of these areas were colonized as early as 1550, and contained some of the main population centers of Brazil in the 1700s, so the current design heavily deviates from historical accuracy. While many of these areas were jungles, they could merely have that terrain type without being impassable.
 
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This new way of representing native religions is definitely better.

I've had a blast with the Tinto Maps, thanks for taking the time to do these. Can't wait to play whatever game this is!
 
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Trovador said:
Historically, many of these areas were colonized as early as 1550, and contained some of the main population centers of Brazil in the 1700s, so the current design heavily deviates from historical accuracy. While many of these areas were jungles, they could merely have that terrain type without being impassable.
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Oh, I see what you mean then. Yeah, that makes sense. I thought they meant they were going to change the terrain type. I'm totally fine with making the wastelands smaller.
 
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Loved the dev diary. Mata atlantica should not be taking that much wasteland. Making the entire state of Rio de Janeiro into one location frankly is a bad choice. At least Campos das Goytacazes, Niteroi, Cabo Frio (presentin a 16th century map in the Vatican Museum) and Volta Redonda, not to mention that Petropolis, along with Teresopolis and other plateau regions, which were a sort of summer residence for the Brazilian Imperial family should be present. The locations along the route from the gold mines of minas to Rio should be present as well.
 
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I think including the Mâta Atlantica forest terrain in southeastern Brazil is great, but I'm not so sure about making those areas wastelands, given the timescope of this game extends into the 19th century.
 
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Holbenilord said:
This is fair, though in the case of the route from Brazil to Peru I think there is a contemporary demonstration of moving a significant enough force along it: Pedro Teixeira's expedition in 1637 from Maranhão to Quito was quite large, apparently including 47 canoes and some 2000 persons, mostly natives.
Click to expand...
That would require in-game navigable rivers.

And, to my knowledge, that expedition did not have any bellicose purposes, since it was done during the times of the iberian union.

Would it have succeeded as a wartime expedition? Very hard to say (and then we'd re-enter the whole navigable rivers debate...)
 
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