Tinto Maps #30 - 20th of December 2024 - South America

[Braziler]

I am very sad about the representation of Brazil. As posted by @FleetingRain, the Atlantic Forest was not an obstacle to colonization, but most of the locations of the first 100 years of colonization were founded in this "impassable area". I also have feedback on this (I believe you already know) and if I have time I will organize to post it clearly here.

 

[Pavía]

I was thinking this, but also was a bit surprised there wasn't a way across given that Orellana took this route and saw so many towns along the way. I'm sure it's tough to depict the groups that lived here but there's a lack even of SoPs.

View attachment 1233695

One note. When depicting these types of corridors, a standard we use is 'Could an army with cannons and supply wagons cross it?', because that's a possible behavior in the game that we want to take care of. So, even if Orellana managed to go downstream the Amazon with 50 men, it doesn't necessarily mean that a colonial army could use the same route, which is an extra reason not to portray it, not even as a corridor.

 

[Pavía]

What will be the first country you'll cover its flavor?

It will be a surprise country!

 

[FFLS]

Where is the Guarani people????

 

[dw70676]

It will be a surprise country!

Spain(ish Inquistion)?

 

[Pavía]

Can you post a zoomed out religion map?

Like this?:

 

[tinto²]

@Pavia

I would be grateful if you could provide me with a world map that depicts both the old and new continents

 

[slupie]

When it comes to colonization, does terrain and vegetation impact the amount of settlers drawn to a region? Instead of all these wastelands, it seems like hilly jungles would be naturally less appealing than flat grasslands for settlers. If the disincentives for settlement are consistent enough, it seems like fewer wastelands would be needed but settlement patterns would be the same.

 

[matfer13]

The Amazon estuary should be narrows

 

[Mef]

In Brazil's first census in 1872, Minas Gerais was the most populous state. It looks very strange that half of its area is just impassable in this map.

 

[Polesie Admiral]

It will be a surprise country!

With an unexpected inquisition?

 

[Trovador]

I'm very disappointed with the depiction of Brazil, specially Southeastern Brazil:

• The historical Bandeiras starting from São Paulo are impossible, since most of them went up the Tietê river (such as Raposo Tavares's, but pretty much ALL campaigns to western Brazil save for Anhanguera's).
• Historical Minas Gerais is completely ignored - it can't even be accessed from the south, the historical route of Fernão Dias (through the south of Minas Gerais to the main gold/diamond producing regions such as Mariana and Ouro Preto/Vila Rica) nor the Caminho do Ouro and Estrada Real, from central Minas Gerais to Paraty and Rio respectively. In fact, the main cities of Minas Gerais in the period (which were incredibly relevant in the 1700s until the end of the game) don't even exist as accessible locations!
• This also erases most of the key indigenous populations that lead to the brazilian identity and the creation of Lingua Geral (specifically the Lingua Geral Paulista), the lingua franca in Brazil that was mostly based on Tupi-Guarani and Portuguese. From that map, it seems like most of southeastern Brazil was Je-speaking, when in reality the Tupi-Guarani influences were so large that portuguese settlements would speak and name places in that language.
• This also leads to a hilariously low granularity in a region that was populated through all of the game's period, with density increasing in the last 150 years - while many areas in Patagonia were added even though they have been barely inhabited. The whole of São Paulo (the captaincy that would colonize and define pretty much half of Brazil) has only 8 locations (less than Tierra del Fuego!). It turns one of the key areas of Brazil into an afterthought with no economical or demographical relevance, which is far from truth. This leads to bizarrely oversized provinces that cover huge areas with no historical connection (Goitacá covers from southern São Paulo to Araraquara to all of southern MG to all of hinterland Rio de janeiro and all of Espirito Santo) and makes it impossible to reproduce any historical subdivisions or organizations - not even the São Vicente (later São Paulo e Minas do Ouro) / Rio de Janeiro main split
• It's also baffling that Northern Minas Gerais is represented with the default granularity of northeastern Brazil, even though it was colonized later (in the late XVIIth century) while southern Minas Gerais was settled first (from São Paulo) and also more consistently during the 1700s.

Basically, assuming that the Mata Atlântica was a wasteland that couldn't be populated, transversed or colonized is incorrect, with a large amount of settlements all over the region that existed since the 1600s at least to their major relevance in the 1700s; the current approach also negates the large indigenous populations from these regions, which heavily influenced Brazilian culture and identity.

The peaks of Serra do Mar, Serra da Mantiqueira and Serra do Espinhaço could become wastelands, but the valleys of Tiete, Paraná and Grande and the rugged hills under these peaks should all be colonizable, given how they actually were colonized and essential to define Brazil as an important economical interest for Portugal.

 

[FleetingRain]

One note. When depicting these types of corridors, a standard we use is 'Could an army with cannons and supply wagons cross it?', because that's a possible behavior in the game that we want to take care of. So, even if Orellana managed to go downstream the Amazon with 50 men, it doesn't necessarily mean that a colonial army could use the same route, which is an extra reason not to portray it, not even as a corridor.

But what if there were settlements in the area founded by colonizers? I believe (very) small armies could cross these regions if whites managed to settle there, so bigger armies should be taken care of by attrition. At least that's the logic I used for my map: there was a white presence there and those areas were disputed by Europeans, even if far away from the centers of power.

 

[Apukispay]

What will be the first country you'll cover its flavor?

I am going to take a wild guess and say Castille.

 

[Sapa Inca]

Where is the Guarani people???? they had some important level of organization...

They are named Avá in the culture map.

 

[Trovador]

In Brazil's first census in 1872, Minas Gerais was the most populous state. It looks very strange that half of its area is just impassable in this map.

Not only half of it, but the half that actually had most of the population, with places like Vila Rica and Mariana being wastelands (and the main roads from these places to the coast, to Rio de Janeiro, Paraty and São Paulo, being impassable as well)

 

[Bisonmask]

I'm not sure if this applied only to the incan's, or to all of pre incan Peru and the Andes. But again citing the book 1491, there appears to be a decent amount of evidence that shows that the incans not only lacked money as a thing. But also had no markets either.

Markets in game aren't the same thing as market economies, they're networks of goods exchange which the Inka absolutely did have both within and outside their territory

That these markets were generally state controlled doesn't make them not markets in gameplay terms

I'd also love to see this system in game though, especially given the Inka Empire was unusual due to scale moreso than inventing the system

 

[Tissaia]

They have some unique features, but it's pretty hardcore at this moment, TBH.

Just wanted to let you know that my Inca Empire will be glorious, there are no obstacles that can stop me.

 

[MasterPaw]

What do you mean?

you didnt say how are grouped religions

 

[ArVass]

I was thinking this, but also was a bit surprised there wasn't a way across given that Orellana took this route and saw so many towns along the way. I'm sure it's tough to depict the groups that lived here but there's a lack even of SoPs.

View attachment 1233695

It should at least be a corridor, if it is impossible to depict the real chiefdoms there