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Tinto Maps #30 - 20th of December 2024 - South America

Hello and welcome to one Friday of map-loving! Today is special, as our 30th Tinto Maps, devoted to South America, is the last regular one. This implies that it won’t be the last, though - we plan to have two Tinto Maps Extra on December 27th and January 3rd, and then we will continue with the Tinto Maps Feedback posts as we progress with the map review.

But don’t worry, as on the first post-Christmas Friday, January 10th, I will start a new series, Tinto Flavor, in which we will show the content that we have been working on for Project Caesar. And I promise you, it’s a ton of content, so you will have to play the game in due time to discover it all…

Before we continue, one note: as we're covering a lot of lands today, don't be shy and ask for more detailed maps of the type you want wherever you want them, and I'll try to provide in the replies. And now, let’s start with the South American maps:

Countries
Countries1.png

Countries2.png

Countries3.png

Most of the countries that can be considered being at a State-wise level in 1337 are mostly concentrated in what is today Perú. We have famous ones, as the Chimu or Chincha, and you may also see a tiny country, Qusqu, which would later become the Inca Empire, the long-term goal while playing in the region.

Dynasties
Dynasties1.png

Dynasties2.png


SoPs
Sops1.png

Sops2.png

Sops3.png

Sops4.png

Sops5.png

There are SoPs spread out all across the continent, making for a really interesting mix in the Peruvian area (again). We're already thinking about how to better visualize the coexistence of these two types of countries in the political layer, but it's going to take us some more time to get there.

Locations
Locations1.png

Locations2.png

Locations3.png

Locations4.png

Locations5.png

One note: I'll talk a bit more in-depth about the design of the Brazilian locations if you scroll down, in the Terrain section.

Provinces
Provinces1.png

Provinces2.png

Provinces3.png


Areas
Areas1.png

Areas2.png


Terrain
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

There are huge geographical variations in South America, being one of the most diverse continents. One of the things I wanted to discuss is that we've tried to portray the Mata Atlântica, the original forest cover that was present in Brazil before the Portuguese colonized it, and a different type of land exploitation started. In this regard, we've been reading the feedback of the Brazilian community, and I want to say that our intention here is to portray the most realistic situation for 1337. That said, we've already internally discussed that we may reduce its scope, so it doesn't look so extreme, but we'd like to hear your opinions about it. And here you have one of the images that we used as a reference for it, so you get a good grasp of our intention:
Mata Atlantica.png

Development
Development.png


Natural Harbors
Harbors1.png

Harbors2.png


Culture
Cultures1.png

Cultures2.png

Cultures3.png

Cultures4.png

Cultures5.png

Cultures6.png

The jewel of the crown in this region. We've tried to portray the Pre-Columbian cultural diversity of these lands as accurately as possible, and, well, here you have the results.

Languages
Languages1.png

Languages2.png

Languages3.png

And the languages that group these cultures.

Religions
Religions1.png

Religions2.png

Religions3.png

We've tried to do our best to group the cultural religions of South America into different groups, based on common believes, gods, rituals, etc. Let us know what do you think of them. Oh, also, the Inti religion has its own differentiate mechanics, which we'll explain in the future!

Raw Goods
Raw Materials1.png

Raw Materials2.png

Raw Materials3.png

Raw Materials4.png

Lots of different natural resources in South America. You may note that some are more common compared to other regions (such as Medicaments). We've also been tweaking the color of different resources, with the help of your feedback!

Markets
Markets.png

The green market is centered around Teyuna, and the red one is Chinchay.

Population
Some issues with the map of the region this week (sadly), so let's discuss the numbers. The total in the continent is 10.22M, divided this way:
  • 1.66M in Colombia
  • 1.2M in Brazil
  • 5.07M in Andes
  • 877K in Chaco
  • 1.4M in La Plata
And that's all for today! We hope that you enjoyed the Tinto Maps series! We've definitely done, and it's also greatly helping us to make Project Caesar a much better game, with your help and feedback. Cheers!
 
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Pavía said:
Terrain
View attachment 1233665
There are huge geographical variations in South America, being one of the most diverse continents. One of the things I wanted to discuss is that we've tried to portray the Mata Atlântica, the original forest cover that was present in Brazil before the Portuguese colonized it, and a different type of land exploitation started. In this regard, we've been reading the feedback of the Brazilian community, and I want to say that our intention here is to portray the most realistic situation for 1337. That said, we've already internally discussed that we may reduce its scope a bit, so it doesn't look so extreme, but we'd like to hear your opinions about it. And here you have one of the images that we used as a reference for it, so you get a good grasp of our intention:
View attachment 1233667
Click to expand...
I don't think the huge swathes of grasslands are anywhere near realistic. Even today the total forest cover is higher than that.

There should be plenty of 'woods' in the broad area around most of the jungles and forest locations imo.

Global forest cover map
 
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I'd ask that you split up the Arawakan, Cariban, Chibchan and Jê languages, and that you rename the Quechuan language to just Quechua. Also, the Chachapoyas didn't speak a Cariban language, it was probably related to Culle and Hibito-Cholon. Tupi-Guarani itself works as a language, but I think you guys may have included some languages of the larger Tupian branch?

A good starting point for splitting Arawakan would be separate languages for:
  • the "real" Ta-Arawakan (covering the Taino, Ciboney, Lucayan, "Arawak proper" aka Lokono, Caquetio, Wayuu, Igneri which should be the culture of the Lesser Antilles)
  • Campa/Ashaninka (covering Ashaninka, Nomatsiguenga, Matsigengka)
  • Moxo (including Baure)
  • Xingu (including Enawene Nawe)
  • Achagua
  • Aroa although I'm not sure the Marajoara were Arawakan-speaking yet

A good starting point for splitting Jê would be this map:
1734892131342.png

As for Chibchan and Cariban, well, take a look at the internal classification trees on wikipedia.
 
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As we all thought, you had the Mata Atlantica in mind when you made those weird wastelands in Brazil.

I'm at work and honestly I have no definite sources to show so what I'll say will feel vibes-based, but: this is a terrible approach imo. Those areas had native populations, and most of them were perfectly colonizable by the Portuguese; many of those places weren't colonized until the XIX century not because of, say, Brazilian malaria killing the whites, but rather due to a mix of 1) Crown restrictions on colonization (east/south of Minas Gerais being the biggest victim), 2) the ferocity of the local natives after they learned of the settlers' cruelty (this was not an absolute deterrent ofc), and 3) the country just being so damn big and rich there were other easier areas to exploit. But the colonizers knew about those "empty" areas, they would cross them in travels and expeditions; they just did not settle them. I've made a map showing this in my suggestion thread:

FBUsXAL.jpeg


Most areas in black are NOT in the Mata Atlântica region. Most of them are in the middle of the country because, again, it's too damn big. The frontier was simply enormous, we never had that many people (to this day the country is "sparsely" populated, only 23.8 people/km²). That, aligned with political/strategic issues (avoiding new smuggling lines from Minas Gerais, not colonizing the South beyond Tordesillas, why bother with Goias when Minas Gerais already has gold) brought us this colonization pattern. Even the Amazon got settled relatively soon (but of course, only near the rivers; the map is misleading in that).

For reference, this is how my location map looked last time I updated my thread:

de9ula6.png
1734704288292.png

I do strongly believe this is a better approach. We do not need that many wastelands, the eastern wastelands should be restricted to the Serra do Mar/mar de morros (PT-BR only). What I would be more liberal with is the Amazon, however, precisely because we did not get much/any settlements far from the rivers until much later on (and for this, I have this Native Vegetation map which could be used as a reference, although limited to 1500).

And that's only about the locations. I have no idea about cultures and tradegoods and whatnot lmao.
 
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LordOfAnts said:
On Brazillian terrain, that's how the Mata Atlântica looks: View attachment 1233683

All those forest tiles should be converted to jungle.
And this is how the Cerrado, the Brazillian Savanah, can look like:

View attachment 1233686

I would hardly call this Grasslands. Though this image is not as stereotypical of the Cerrado as the previous one is to the Mata Atlântica, so I would need to research more to be able to say exactly which provinces should be converted from Grasslands into Forest/Woods.


Could we have a closer look on the terrain map for the Brazillian Northeast? I should be able to provide a more detailed feedback on that one.
Click to expand...
Here you are:
Brazilian Topography.png

Brazilian Vegetation.png
 
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No way to connect Eastern Brazil to Peru via land path (following rivers)? Maybe a late game technology to allow it? Seeing as how most of it was filled in by the time the game ends.
 
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Conde de Montanelas said:
Also, hopefully the dynamic raw goods are already implemented, as seeing São Salvador da Bahia loc producing sand is... weird, to say the least.
Click to expand...
Yes, it already is.
 
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Going to take some time to prepare the feedback, but some initial questions:
1-Are the (pre-)incan road system and the peabiru present?
2-Why isn't there even a single guarani SoP?
3-The mata atlântica wasteland in this size does not make sense, it is equivalent to making all of SEA into wasteland because jungle. It currently fails to portray a lot of history like: 1) the aforementioned peabiru, which served as a trading road between the brazilian coast from são paulo to santa catarina and cusco, in which the indigenous people of the coast traded salt and sea shells, the guaranis of the interior traded feathers and maily food from agriculture and the andeans traded in metals, this path is blocked by wasteland. 2) the brazilian gold rush, current migration paths going from the coast to the minas gerais interior are blocked of as well. 3) the type of jungle found in the mata atlântica was far easier to traverse and develop than the amazon jungle, their wood was also better as a product because of it's high quality (pau-brasil, araucária, canela-guaicá, and many more, even xaxim as a fertilizer) which was of great interest of the european high society, while the amazon only started seeing colonized development with the rubber rush (and from chopping of the entire mata atlântica basically). I will later, with a more proper feedback, make a map for a revision of the wasteland.
 
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Also let me ask something else: was there any criteria in drawing the locations? I was cheeky and used the municipalities' borders themselves and imo it worked, but I don't know if you had super accurate maps for yours or just drew blobs that looked "good enough".
 
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Metz said:
No way to connect Eastern Brazil to Peru via land path (following rivers)? Maybe a late game technology to allow it? Seeing as how most of it was filled in by the time the game ends.
Click to expand...
I was thinking this, but also was a bit surprised there wasn't a way across given that Orellana took this route and saw so many towns along the way. I'm sure it's tough to depict the groups that lived here but there's a lack even of SoPs.

1734704976219.gif
 
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zanga said:
What was the source for climate map of Brazil?
Click to expand...
Köppen-Trewartha, as usual. We're changing it in the reviewed regions to the 1901-1925 one, IIRC, as suggested by @Sulphurologist , as it's closer to the climate in 1337.
 
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1734704497034.png

Why is all of this impassable terrain? I live in this region and couldn't think why you could have come to this decision.
The whole region is today one of the most densely inhabited in Brazil, and was an economic and political centre in the later stages of Brazilian colonial history, as well as one of the first regions where colonization expanded inland.
The under representation of São Paulo and the region around it baffles me, considering how important it was in expanding the colony inland, as well as the importance of the indigenous people living there in early colonization, including the Tamoios.
 
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I'm from Brazil and I have a few doubts:

1) the territory named "Upaon Açu", shouldn't it be an island? I was born there and locals refer to the island itself as "Island of São Luís" or "Upaon Açu Island";
2) whether it remains the same or turned into an island, Upaon Açu has (nowadays at least) the Itaqui Port, which is the deepest port in Brazil and an inportant one. Shouldn't the Natural Harbors map be a bit brighter for it?
3) a side note: near the end of the 1500s, the french took the island from the portuguese. Their records say that there were about 12k natives living there at the time. Might be something that could be added to the Population Map.
 
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