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Also, I found a few maps that can help with the distribution of natural resources and crops in Brazil:
(It is a map of today's Brazil, but the mineral ores were always there and the crops pretty much remained the same for centuries.)

mapa-actividades-economicas-brasil-1.jpg

Relevant resources on the map above (I don't know why it's in spanish XD):
Café = Coffee
Cacao = Chocolate
Cana de Açucar = Sugar Cane
Algodão = Cotton
Arroz = Rice
Tala e Reflorestação = Wood (That area is not Mata Atlantica, but the Araucária, composed of large and very tall Coniferous Trees)

recursosmineraisdoBrasil.gif

Relevant resources on the map above:
Calcário = Lime Stone
Ouro = Gold
Ferro = Iron
Cobre = Copper
Estanho = Tin
Sal Marinho = Salt
Carvão = Coal
Diamonds = Gemstones

Minas Gerais is very mineral rich with a lot both Gold and Iron, while the Southeast and the Northeast are great places for cash crops.
 
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Relevant resources on the map above (I don't know why it's in spanish XD):
Luckly, Tinto will have no issue reading a map in spanish ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
I don't think it's sloppiness, and a lack of data. I would venture to say that of all colonial countries, Brazil is the one that least studies original peoples.

From what I understand, the interpretation is that there were no native people living in the Atlantic Forest areas at the beginning of the game. Right? But that's not true, at least most of the cities founded already had indigenous villages before.

Look this map of this site.

I don't know, but much of thr names show at the TM aren't natives, for example "Telha" is portuguese and mean "tile".
1. It's more on the assumption that those areas covered by Mata Atlàntica would have way lower population density than the others, not that there isn't people at all.
2. In a few cases we might have not found any endonims, and may have had to use colonial toponyms, but there are very few. A good example is Escoria in Panamá, which is a diminishing term in Spanish, but we couldn't find a better endonym to use, so we had to use the exonym.
 
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Also, I found a few maps that can help with the distribution of natural resources and crops in Brazil:
(It is a map of today's Brazil, but the mineral ores were always there and the crops pretty much remained the same for centuries.)

View attachment 1234209
Relevant resources on the map above (I don't know why it's in spanish XD):
Café = Coffee
Cacao = Chocolate
Cana de Açucar = Sugar Cane
Algodão = Cotton
Arroz = Rice
Tala e Reflorestação = Wood (That area is not Mata Atlantica, but the Araucária, composed of large and very tall Coniferous Trees)

View attachment 1234208
Relevant resources on the map above:
Calcário = Lime Stone
Ouro = Gold
Ferro = Iron
Cobre = Copper
Estanho = Tin
Sal Marinho = Salt
Carvão = Coal
Diamonds = Gemstones

Minas Gerais is very mineral rich with a lot both Gold and Iron, while the Southeast and the Northeast are great places for cash crops.
Podemos leer mapas en español y portugués sin problemas. :)

Regarding natural resources, we're only interested in those that have a record of being exploited before the 19th century, otherwise, we prefer to avoid them.
 
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That said, our design of Mata Atlàntica was a proposal to portray that Pre-Colonial situation as better as possible. We may have had to think a bit more about the situation in the Colonial period, so the Brazilian community would find the region way more recognizable, and closer to what they think that it should play like in Project Caesar. It's something that has been clearly communicated to us, and we will do our best to review the region, with the help, feedback, and support that the Brazilian community gives us.
;)
On that note, I hope our feedback was clear and concise enough on one thing - the Mata Atlântica's current representation on vegetation, climate, topography, etc, is actually very well done. Had it been made plains or farmland instead we'd be having the reverse situation, where the brazilian community would bring up that it wasn't deforested at the game's start date.

Our great problem with it, and what we want the main takeaway from our feedback to be is - not a wasteland. That's what got most people angry and disappointed, that a large chunk of our country and its history would simply be unable to be represented in-game because it's a wasteland. The Mata Atlântica isn't as uninhabitable or non-traveserable as the Congo, the Sahara or the Amazon.


Of course! That's the reason why we've been doing Tinto Maps, in the first place. And we've already shown how we're applying the feedback we receive for the game, in the Tinto Maps Feedback posts. ;)
And for that we are very thankful. At the end of the day both of us (the community and developers) really want the same thing, a better gameplay experience and a more accurate representation of Brazil than we've been given in the past, one that we can be satisfied with for years to come. We hope our feedback was constructive and that our worries are eventually unfounded, as we have hope in Project Caesar and only wish for it to be improved :D
 
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"Bro this is illegible" yes, but this is just to show I got to overlay my map over Tinto's, which means I can properly draw over it now.

Nevermind, turns out the map is illegible regardless because of the resizing. Who could've expected a rasterized picture to do that, really?

Guess I'll focus now on getting the native/colonial names so at least I can present something in the main thread.
 
Good map, I would add to this just a tiny tiny detail, which is a wasteland on the place of "Lençóis Maranhenses". Other than that the distribution and density seem very reasonable.
 
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Thank you! I had another preliminary map with smaller locations (somewhere around 50% more locations than now) which I decided not to use because, frankly, Brazil had almost no people compared to some other areas of the globe. It's really hard to compete with the Old World when it comes to population, so it makes sense to me that Brazil is simply much less dense. Braziler came to this conclusion much earlier than I did and thus his map is shaping up to be around 600 locations, so I wonder what Tinto is cooking up.
I think Brazil may need more locations, similar to the current locations in India is a reasonable choice (about a thousand)
Because Brazil's area is approximately twice that of the South Asian subcontinent, its latitude is similar to that of India, and its location density is only half, which is very reasonable.
 
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I think Brazil may need more locations, similar to the current locations in India is a reasonable choice (about a thousand)
Because Brazil's area is approximately twice that of the South Asian subcontinent, its latitude is similar to that of India, and its location density is only half, which is very reasonable.
I agree. The current low density of locations and the Wastelands in the South of Brazil is completely and utterly ridiculous. It might not be very much populated in 1337, but there were natives there back then, it is fertile and colonizeable land. Damn, São Paulo and Minas Gerais are the heartland of Brazil and it was already like that in the late 1700s, which is well within the scope of the game's time period.

Why the hell does that area look like the Amazon Rainforest in the game??
 
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So, my feedback. Mostly in the drawing of the provinces, as the locations are generally nice.

ONLY ABOUT RIO GRANDE DO SUL
I liked the locations density, but I think realistically it will not be as dense. This region was not important for most(if not all) of the period and in older games it was always a region with very low density.

Add here my classical complain that this map is based on the municipalities and therefore does not allow to portrait the Madrid and San Idelfonso treaty lines. To achieve this, major changes are needed, so I didn't draw the changes. I added the lines of the treaties for reference.

correções propostas FleeingRain.png

Changes I drew:
Locations:

- Taquari and Estrela could change: As is, Estrela has both the valley and the serra in the location. I would merge the southern half of Estrela(where is the city proper and is the valley) into Taquari and create a different named location in the northern half, where it is serra. Maybe name it Guaporé.
- The northern part of Triunfo could be included into Santa Cruz, because it is serra. This way would better follow the topology (Triunfo: flatland, Santa Cruz: hills)
- Split Mostardas from São josé do Norte. It's not really necessary, but both cities had different colonization history. I also considered just renaming São José do Norte as Mostardas, but I'm also not sure which one is older. Motardas is azorian colonization around 1770s. I'm not sure about São José do Norte. It was partially colonized with Rio Grande in 1725, but it seems that the colonization was more in Rio Grande than in São José do Norte.
- A lot of the wasteland seems way to aggressive and I think it shouldn't exist. As an example the wasteland north of Santa Cruz and Triunfo is the Taquari/Antas river and, even though it has very deep valleys there (200m in the valley and 700m outside the valley, with a width of a few hundred meters), I wouldn't call it wasteland. It is very livable and can be crossed by an army if you search a good way to descend into the valley. In my interpretation, all the wasteland west of Estrela location and the wasteland north of Santa Cruz and Triunfo should all go.
- The location of Entre Ijuis contains the ruins of the reduction of São João Batista. This is probably a better name for the location(it is, at least, an older name).
- I changed part of Caçapava do Sul to Cachoeira do Sul. This is because Caçapava is the beggining of the Escudo Rio Grandese, a more hilly formation, while Cachoeira, Santa Maria and São Gabriel are mostly part of the Depressão Central. I decided to use this topological separation as a guide for the drawing of the provinces and this implied in a weird province circling around Caçapava, so I changed a little bit.

Provinces:
- I would tweak the provinces map. I believe it would be very nice to have the historical region of Campos de Viamão as a province. It would drive colonization in a more historical way, since the colonization is made through the provinces.
- The reductions and Alegrete province are mostly OK.
- Grouped the region above the Serra as a single province.
- I made the Province of Rio Grande include only the coast locations, as the inland colonization of this region was much later. This also allowed me to follow the general topological lines of the Escudo Rio Grandese as a province.
- Renaming to match some historical names: Campos de Viamão and Campos de Vacaria.
- Renaming to match more topological and recognizable names today.
Escudo Sul-Rio-Grandense is the geological formation of mainly that region.
Vales is the region encompassing the main river valleys. It matches partially with the geological region of Depressão Central. I'm not sure on the name, maybe could just be "Valleys", "Jacuí valley" or "Jacuí", even though it includes other river valleys.
-Renaming to Passo Fundo because it is more centered in the province and historically, Cruz Alta is basically the frontier of the Jesuit region. It's a vague and uncertain renaming. I would like to have a better name.
 
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Rio Grande do Sul was less populated indeed, mostly because of the focus on cattle farming which needed a small workforce to produce vast quantities of meat.

The rest of the South of Brazil, specially Minas Gerais where there was a literal GOLD RUSH during the game's time period, should be much more dense in locations. I already posted this map and I'm posting it again, in the vain hope that Paradox does something about the dreadful "South Brazilian Wasteland" before the game launches.

02-09-a-full.jpg
 
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Rio Grande do Sul was less populated indeed, mostly because of the focus on cattle farming which needed a small workforce to produce vast quantities of meat.

The rest of the South of Brazil, specially Minas Gerais where there was a literal GOLD RUSH during the game's time period, should be much more dense in locations. I already posted this map and I'm posting it again, in the vain hope that Paradox does something about the dreadful "South Brazilian Wasteland" before the game launches.

View attachment 1256317
Oh, my feedback was exclusive for Rio Grande do Sul. Both RS and SC were not much colonized and had little importance in the period (the coast of SC a little more important). In this region, I have little to no faith that paradox will give much attention, but I'll still give some feedback.
However, from PR northwards, the colonization was much more intesive, the Tinto Map was very bad and a vast review with increased vastly density is indeed more than necessary. I do belive they will correct this, at least in MG and SP.
 
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Oh, my feedback was exclusive for Rio Grande do Sul. Both RS and SC were not much colonized and had little importance in the period (the coast of SC a little more important). In this region, I have little to no faith that paradox will give much attention, but I'll still give some feedback.
However, from PR northwards, the colonization was much more intesive, the Tinto Map was very bad and a vast review with increased vastly density is indeed more than necessary. I do belive they will correct this, at least in MG and SP.
You're probably right. They're most likely rework the map on the southeast, but I have little faith in everything else.
The nation (SOP's) setup will probably be the same in the region, which is so bad that I still can't believe they put in like that. I mean, come on, they manage to make a worse starting settup than EU4. No amazon basin tribes, very low population count, very small number of SOP's... If you compare it anywhere else it's obvious that the region takes a backseat to every single other place on the map.
The North American east coast is filled to the brim with SOP's, and they managed to place FOURTEEN SOP's on New Zealand, but only FOUR on Brazil. How that makes any semblance of sense is still a mystery to me.
 
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You're probably right. They're most likely rework the map on the southeast, but I have little faith in everything else.
The nation (SOP's) setup will probably be the same in the region, which is so bad that I still can't believe they put in like that. I mean, come on, they manage to make a worse starting settup than EU4. No amazon basin tribes, very low population count, very small number of SOP's... If you compare it anywhere else it's obvious that the region takes a backseat to every single other place on the map.
The North American east coast is filled to the brim with SOP's, and they managed to place FOURTEEN SOP's on New Zealand, but only FOUR on Brazil. How that makes any semblance of sense is still a mystery to me.
I don't know how well documented the Native Brazilian Tribes are, as they didn't teach me much about them back in school here in Brazil. But, I do know there were a ton of catholic missions spread across the Portuguese colonies, so the catholic church must have some kind of registry about them, or maybe the Brazilian government.

I don't know where to look, but if you find a reliable source of documents about the tribes and numbers of the Brazilian natives in the times pre colonization, the guys on Tinto might be more inclined to include those SoPs there. Because I agree with you, Brazil was more sparsely populated than North America, Mexico and the Andes, but there were plenty of tribes here. They just were way more primitive than the other American civilizations.
 
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I don't know how well documented the Native Brazilian Tribes are, as they didn't teach me much about them back in school here in Brazil. But, I do know there were a ton of catholic missions spread across the Portuguese colonies, so the catholic church must have some kind of registry about them, or maybe the Brazilian government.

I don't know where to look, but if you find a reliable source of documents about the tribes and numbers of the Brazilian natives in the times pre colonization, the guys on Tinto might be more inclined to include those SoPs there. Because I agree with you, Brazil was more sparsely populated than North America, Mexico and the Andes, but there were plenty of tribes here. They just were way more primitive than the other American civilizations.
I don't know how well documented they are, because I don't know much about those abroad. But we have some Jesuit priests who recorded some languages like Tupi, Guarani and Kariri and published dictionaries and grammars in these languages. There are also some adventurers, especially Germans, who passed through the Krenak, Tupi and Pataxó and published their accounts in books. Some languages have only a dozen words recorded. Any inaccuracy on the map is the fault of Brazilian historians, who for the most part do not do their job right.
 
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I don't know how well documented the Native Brazilian Tribes are, as they didn't teach me much about them back in school here in Brazil. But, I do know there were a ton of catholic missions spread across the Portuguese colonies, so the catholic church must have some kind of registry about them, or maybe the Brazilian government.

I don't know where to look, but if you find a reliable source of documents about the tribes and numbers of the Brazilian natives in the times pre colonization, the guys on Tinto might be more inclined to include those SoPs there. Because I agree with you, Brazil was more sparsely populated than North America, Mexico and the Andes, but there were plenty of tribes here. They just were way more primitive than the other American civilizations.
As a good brasilian, I also had 0 knowledge of native tribes in school. I'll add that from my research, most of the estabilished missions in the souther region of Brasil (mostly today PR and RS) were actually spanish. The portuguese had some jesuit expeditions, but they were less numerous, restricted mostly to the coast and hardly found settlements.

About documentation, I found that "Historia da Companhia de Jesus no Brasil" by Serafim Leite seems to be rather detailed, but it's huge.

Another note on the subject of SoP: I didn't include propositions of SoP in my reviews because I actually don't know very well the level of representation of the SoP. In the RS region there are 3 main cultures, Tupi-Guarani, Je and Pampeanos, and they all had multiple tribes. I don't know if it would be better to have only three SoP or try to have one for each tribe. It's very hard to find info about each tribe, even the names and location, but it would seem better to represent them seperatly because each tribe reacted differently to colonization and there were even notable rivalries between tribes of the same culture.
 
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I don't know how well documented the Native Brazilian Tribes are, as they didn't teach me much about them back in school here in Brazil. But, I do know there were a ton of catholic missions spread across the Portuguese colonies, so the catholic church must have some kind of registry about them, or maybe the Brazilian government.
I've studied Indigenous History back in undergrad school, and we do have records. I just don't think elementary school teaches us a lot about it, and so most people just don't have enough information about it. But there are several texts, books, essays and so on on the area. When you're dealing with Pré-Cabral history, you're mostly dealing with archeology - We just don't have written records of that. But there are several colonial texts, treaties, chronicles and so on.

For more context,( and that's more in regards to the Amazon Basin):




And there's also a lot that you can do when it comes to SoPs. Even though we don't have any surviving buildings, there were several constructions made during the Cacicado Amazônico period, right before the Portuguese got here. To paraphrase:

"In the Amazon basin, complex chiefdoms were expanding, sustaining long networks of trade that connected the region in all directions, providing, along with the flow of prestige goods and merchandise, the exchange of ideas and techniques. It was these dynamic societies, with sophisticated mastery over the most diverse ecosystems, that were encountered by European conquerors in the 16th century. Nowhere else in the country had the development of complex socio-political institutions gone so far. It is not worth speculating here whether the Amazonian Cacicados would have become expansionist states, like the Inca empire. But they were certainly closer to becoming one than any of the idyllic rainforest tribes painted by foreigners at the fading lights of the 1950s."
 

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