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Stellaris Dev Diary #371 - 4.0 Changes: Part 5

Hi everyone!

This week we’re looking more at the economic changes of the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update, and how we’re going to update the Planet UI to work with them.

As this is all still in development, things are still subject to change, and I’m going to be using a lot of the UX Design Mockups in this dev diary. The final versions will not match these work-in-progress designs precisely. The Open Beta will definitely not be at these polish levels. Also be aware that numbers on these mockups are all placeholders meant to help the rest of the team get the layout right, so things like the Pop Counts or Production numbers aren’t accurate.

Planets - Districts - Zones - Buildings - Jobs​

As mentioned last week, one of the fundamental changes we’re making to the economy behind the scenes is that planets are now the source of production rather than the pops themselves. This is a generally subtle change from your perspective as a player, but this opened up an opportunity to revamp exactly how planets are structured, and to formalize some of the job hierarchy. A few of you have already guessed some of the things I’m going to share with you.

We’re introducing a new planetary feature: Zones. By specializing Districts, Zones function similarly to how the Forge World, Factory World, and Industrial World designations previously modified the jobs provided by Industrial Districts – only now as a more structured, intuitive, and flexible mechanic.

The 4.0 Planet Hierarchy is:
  • Planets produce and consume resources.
  • Districts provide a base number of Jobs for each level of development.
  • Zones manipulate what Jobs are provided by their District.
  • Buildings typically modify the production of Jobs themselves, though may also provide static numbers of Jobs.
  • Jobs are filled by Workforce, and make the planet produce a single resource by default (unless they have been modified).

Standard planets have a City District that contains your urban development, and remains capped by planet size as it is in 3.14. The City District has four Zones - one will always be locked to a Governmental Zone and contains your Capital Building, while the other three will be selectable. Normal planets also have Mining, Agricultural, and Energy Districts which each have one Zone, and - like 3.14 - are gated by planetary features. Industrial Districts have been removed, as their function has been replaced by Zones.

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Upgrading Districts is now clearly shown as a button on the Planet UI - this should reduce the number of “it took me X months to realize you can build districts” posts. As part of the increase in differentiation between Districts and Buildings, we’ve changed some of the terminology slightly - instead of building a dozen Districts across a planet, you will upgrade their development level. Functionally this remains the same.

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Zones are our new addition to the Planet Hierarchy. Zones let you change the nature of their District. By default, the City District will provide Housing and increase the maximum number of Civilians that your planet can support. (Based on design discussions over the past week, we’re leaning towards your Empire Capital having a bonus increasing this number significantly, which has the nice secondary effect of making the conquest of Homeworlds in the early game carry the societal challenge of suddenly creating many angry Dissidents that will be unable to promote back to Civilians as this bonus is lost.) If you build a Foundry Zone, the City District will replace some of their Civilian capacity and housing with Metallurgist jobs for each level of development. If you then build a Factory Zone, the City District will provide both Metallurgist and Artisan jobs, but with further reductions to their Citizen capacity.

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While you can build multiple Zones of the same type (in your City District, for example), the first Zone of each type built on a planet gains three slots for Buildings. (Duplicate Zones do not grant additional Building slots.) Buildings typically modify the production of their associated Job, and most are now Planet Unique. The majority of Buildings are restricted to the specific relevant Zones that they can be built in, but some can still be built anywhere. The Government Zone and Urban Zone can, however, accept most Urban buildings. The build list will be filtered appropriately.

The majority of Jobs will now have a single output by default, so Researchers are being broken apart into Physicists, Biologists, and Engineers.

Origins and Civics that previously replaced Jobs will now typically instead have a Building that modifies the associated Job. A benefit of this is that it should now be able to stack better with other similar Civics - we hope to be able to reduce restrictions so perhaps you’ll be able to sacrifice willing Pops by flinging them into a black hole for money.

The Planetary Surface​

Your homeworld is a bit of a special case in Stellaris - it’s not a brand new colony, but it’s also not very specialized. It needs to provide a little bit of everything, but could really use some cleanup after all those years of development (becoming an Early Space Age civilization is a dirty job.)

Here’s the work-in-progress UX mockup of what Earth may look like at the start of the game:

image8.png

The unspecialized mess of being an Early Space Age civilization gives us a relatively unspecialized zone that provides us with the basic resources necessary at the start of the game. We’ll eventually want to replace that Zone with a more specialized one.

As we head to the stars, we’ll naturally want to colonize our Guaranteed Habitable Worlds. The new Colonization UI will let us immediately set the desired planetary designation for our brand new colony.

image2.png

Don’t worry, you’ll be able to select something other than Factory World...

Here’s what our new colony could look like once the colonization process finishes:

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...But why did you choose Mining World for a planet with Poor Quality Minerals?

The Reassembled Ship Shelter provides Colonist jobs that will provide the Amenities and Stability previously granted by the Colony designation. As shown, the technologies required to expand on an alien world are not necessarily the same as those you need back on your home planet.

Our UX designer has created these explanations of the new UI:

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And here’s what our two planets might look like after some time has passed.

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Special Cases​

Ever since MegaCorp, paving the entire world has always been a grand ambition of Empires.

We’re currently thinking that an Ecumenopolis should act like the megacity it is. The Ecumenopolis will have multiple Urban Districts - one large main one and three more smaller Arcologies.

image4.png

Wait, this means you can make a Fortress Ecumenopolis…

Although the gameplay of upgrading a Habitat Complex by building orbitals throughout a system made Habitats more interesting, having to hunt down that last moon to place the orbital proved incredibly annoying.

For 4.0, we’re removing this pain point. Upgrading Districts on a Habitat will spawn Orbitals throughout the system as their Development Level increases. Some of the district capacity will be available immediately upon colonizing the Habitat Central Complex, with the remainder gated by upgrading the Capital Building. We’re also considering having the district capacity for Habitats more closely linked to the deposits available in the system instead of the current behavior where each mineral deposit grants a static amount of capacity.

We expect to see some unique or former districts for habitats be reimagined or return as Zones, such as the Order’s Demesne for KotTG or Sanctuary Districts for Rogue Servitors.

image5.png

Goodbye, hunting for where that last minor orbital is hiding!

Next Week​

Next week, @Gruntsatwork will go into some of the scripting details of Jobs and Pop Groups. We should also have some more information about the upcoming 4.0 livestream.

See you then!
 
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I think the thing is, sci-fi is generally about how dystopian mass specialisation is (mostly in reaction to the consequences of the industrial revolution).

The entire thing is emblematic of the sort of thing prevelant in the political philosophy of 'progress' in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries (bearing in mind that the term 'progressive' in modern contexts usually means something which is, in an important sense, extremely different). Essentially this is the thing which gave us the worst parts of Fascism, Communism and Capitalism; the elevating of ideas about 'efficiency' and 'progress' above concerns about people; trying to change people to fit the system rather than building the system to suit people. Or get rid of people who don't fit entirely.

I would like to make sure the system allows me to build less optimal, less efficient but more people-centric planets (in the manner of the 'unspecialized mess' which early space-age planets start with).
Also, there's many popular sci-fi authors (and scientists...) who argue that hyperspecialisation is usually only "more efficient" in the most naive sense and relies heavily on unsustainable externalised costs. That's the fun thing about sci fi - classic sci fi tropes are just the views of various popular sci fi authors' understandings of current science and sociology filtered and extrapolated through their own personal worldviews, and then further filtered through the worldviews of the editors and publishers that were historically the only routes to mass publication. Something that was a common sci fi trope in the 1960s can be the exact opposite of a common sci fi trope of the 2020s, or even just a different author's sci fi trope from the 1960s. And if a discussion of why common tropes are common tropes gets removed as real-world politics in the middle of a conversation about "what sci fi is about" then I will be very salty.

So if it's fine for some people to want to subscribe to the tropes about the obvious efficiency of converting entire planets into single-industry factory towns (and for a subset to also want to picture said factory worlds as magical lands of joy and laughter), then it's at least equally fine for me to subscribe to the tropes that say that the most optimally efficient world is a bunch of walkable cities with locally grown fruits and vegetables, a sustainable distributed energy network, and a variety of on-planet career paths for people to self-actualise with. They're both common sci-fi trope categories and if you've only ever encountered one of them then you should really branch out more, or possibly re-read a bunch of stuff you misunderstood.

I have absolutely no problem with both of these themes being valid mechanical approaches within a game with the level of scope of Stellaris. I object to the game allowing both but mechanically favouring the one I personally consider less plausible and, more importantly in a gameplay discussion, find far less enjoyable. So I'm very happy at these updates which seem to indicate both approaches will have pros and cons and be roughly mechanically equivalent, and bear no ill will toward anyone who chooses to go the ultraspecialisation route.
 
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On the other hand if anyone's actively angered by the idea of the hippy commune empire I described being a plausible threat to their clearly superior grimdark ultra-specialised there is only war empire then, well, I still don't bear you ill will but I do find it very funny.
 
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simply an echo of authoritarian governments down the aeons, diverting resources from the sustenance of the people to the construction of vulgar displays of power.

The government isn't struggling to feed people; the people are struggling to satisfy what the empire demands of them in exchange for being fed.
The head of an evil empire witholding basic needs to force the population into desperation and servitude is a very common trope (and unfortunately rather pertinent to many in the world today). And we certainly need more stories about fighting against injustice, hypocrisy, tyranny and corruption to inspire people to do the same.

Extortion and corruption to explain dyson sphere output lacks the hope and ambition that I enjoy in sci-fi. There's a trope that fits the original Star Trek, The Martian, or even the Joy of Painting called "Competence porn" (pleasure at watching people work together in a smart way to do something fantastic... and not in a sexy way). I want to see a future where we think about our actions before doing the right thing no matter the cost. Talented people working together to make amazing things (megastructures should be true wonders of the galaxy, not vulgar displays of power).

Science fiction stories in media lately can lack scale, imagination or even hope (good writers aren't given nearly enough time or valued highly enough). It can feel like a story written in 1500 set in the year 3000 where machines produce fancy lacework for the rich to use as disposable rugs while the poor struggle each evening to hand embroider a fancy new wedding glove by moonlight. Stuck in the past, too limited in scope to even begin to imagine the true scale of change the future could bring.

I want science fiction that can inspire hope that there will eventually be a point in time when current concerns are no longer relevant considerations, we move past our current needs and work together (with entirely new problems tackled by competence and teamwork).

Part of me would like to see some sci-fi games have phases where old mechanics start to melt away and be replaced by new ones. Imperium Galactica from 1997 tried this with little acts ending in small exams that unlocked new mechanics and increased the scope of the game (also increasing the micromanagement a little each step).

Civ 7 tries it with ages, opening up the map and resources becoming obsolete and new ones appearing, once it's polished if it's popular it could inspire age-mechanics in more games (but I'm personally waiting for a few rounds of DLC before sinking time into Civ 7).

For Stellaris (v7.0), a megastructures like a Dyson Sphere could mark the end of an age, an end to worrying about paying the electricity bill and starting to think about something bigger (effectively -100% energy upkeep costs at some very final stage of construction before the era ends, the board resets with no more energy concerns and a shift in scope). Each megastructure powerful enough that ownership can determine the ending of an age. Perhaps in a game where ages advance the smallest unit of management moves from being cities (pre-FTL), to planets (current Stellaris), to sectors (less micromanagement), then entire galaxies as the smallest unit of management, each age redrawing the map and changing what is important to your empire and what stories the game is trying to tell.
TLDR:
The path to Utopia can be hard to imagine. I want to imagine a future where people work together to build amazing things with artistry.
I want to solve our oldest problems (food, energy, housing) and tackle new problems with competence, co-operation and creativity.
 
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If Civ 7's ages are a success perhaps future space games could have energy technology like dyson spheres advance your empire into a new age where energy is now effectively obsolete, no longer a limiting resource to be tracked like food and money in the post-scarcity economy of classic Star Trek. That could work, as long as the next age has fun new resources and new mechanics as older mechanics are phased out and the scope shifts. But more of a suggestion for Stellaris v7.0.

I like the idea of Ressources getting obsolete b.c. there procurement becomes trivial.
 
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So one more thing about the Zones, they will shift jobs from the districts rather than add them, right? And there was talk of duplicate Zones, but not much in the way of visual representation, how will that work?
By default, the City District will provide Housing and increase the maximum number of Civilians that your planet can support. [snip] If you build a Foundry Zone, the City District will replace some of their Civilian capacity and housing with Metallurgist jobs for each level of development. If you then build a Factory Zone, the City District will provide both Metallurgist and Artisan jobs, but with further reductions to their Citizen capacity.
So you're adding government jobs but removing civilian free enterprise space (or whatever you want to call it). Cities with nothing but the default zone will be mostly full of civilians just doing civilian things and presumably generating you trade from that. Add in three science zones and you'll eminent domain the majority of high rises and commercial space to build your shiny new government science labs (and scientist housing?) and hire a bunch of civilians as scientists or promote a bunch of workers to scientists and hire a bunch of civilians as workers.
 
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I like the idea of Ressources getting obsolete b.c. there procurement becomes trivial.
I do think Civ 7, as it iterates and expands on ideas in future could be a good idicator for how much people actually enjoy something like that before it gets applied to other games. Also a new age would be a perfect time to re-survey the galaxy with a different set of anomalies, there's a lot that could apply to Stellaris... if it all eventually gets polished and works well in Civ first.

Similarly Old World has its orders mechanic as a concept to limit micromanagement overload that I found quite interesting. There's a lot of features that other games have already experimented with, and I hope developers take inspiration from many sources.

Also, back on track to the previous discussion of hellscapes/specialisation. If civics add alternative zones it could allow for the flavour text and mechanics to be match the type of society you picture when thinking about it:

Agrarian Idyll versions of industrial/Refinery zones with different flavour text, building choice, jobs and mechanics vs the opposing civics that cannot be taken with it like Relentless Industrialists/Oppressive Autocracy.
If an Agrarian Idyll built a refinery zone I'd want text, jobs and and building options talking about soil remediation, waste treatment or biological synthesis of rare products (perhaps replacing some of the mineral costs with food costs). While relentless industrialists I'd love a refinery boosting building that has the same tombworld conversion effect so the refineries are actually polluting, and the penalties scaling with city district development.

The new system has the potential to represent many more mechanical and thematic differences between empires with just a sprinkling of special zones and buildings in future (if it all works out as intended).
 
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I like how we killed the three heads of science in Galactic Paragons and now they're back as pops.

Also super excited to see how all the Origins and Civics Interact with this new system.
 
Origins and Civics that previously replaced Jobs will now typically instead have a Building that modifies the associated Job. A benefit of this is that it should now be able to stack better with other similar Civics - we hope to be able to reduce restrictions so perhaps you’ll be able to sacrifice willing Pops by flinging them into a black hole for money.
How will this affect origins like Subterranean and Civics like Master Crafters and Agrarian Idyll. They previously supplied building slots from their respective districts but it seems like we're moving away from that now
 
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So, so many feelings about this... excited, yet fearful. Also, it took me several days to kinda understand how all of this will work (and I am not sure that I do), I guess that unless I play a beta, I won't be able to get the hang of it.

So here are my initial thoughts. TLDR, Mixed feelings:

The good:

> Super interested in the whole "zone" intermediate level of development. This points out towards a far higher level of planet customization and a more granular level of fine-tuning. They are, by far, the biggest positive. Super eager to try it out!
> The orbital modifications are surely nice. Can't wait to see how other planet types like resort worlds are represented in this new system
> Dividing scientists into their own original specializations is an amazing change that would help differentiate empires and planets alike. Good stuff
> The introduction of zones and a potentially higher building count seems to point out a higher development ceiling to planets, to which I say: Hell yes. A bigger tradeoff between fleet building and planet development would make for a more interesting game
> Having to avoid scrolling through an endless building list is amazing, and quite ingenious from a UI design perspective, even if it has its drawbacks (to be commented later)

The merely strange:

> Try giving unique zones to civics as well, rather than buildings (or perhaps, both things!). There are tons of flavor and mechanical potential there
> It seems that specialized planets will be far less common. The entire mechanic of unlocking building slots through different districts/zones is a huge incentive for it, in addition to the whole logistic trade upkeep. That's an interesting change and I am open to trying it out, but that also might be far too much of an incentive for swinging the pendulum in the opposite direction and making all our planets "generalists". We will see.
> Is a bit tad strange to see the 3 basic resources get a whole district mega tab for them, while all complex resources get grouped into the "urban" category. It seems like there will be lots of wasted UI space once we get our vassal-fueled economies going (or if we go for a trade build)

The ugly:

> Super-abstracted. At least enlarge resource icons the more resources your planet produces, or something. Developed planets look almost the same as non-developed ones. And planetary features are absent too, but to be honest, they never were quite relevant in the first place.
> For a game that is supposed to be all about pops, they have little or no prominence on this UI. All is behind the population tab. No way to see at first glance if Earth has become a multicultural capital full of funny and tasty Xenos or not
> I hope that the UI will be able to show more than 4 district types. If not, that would be extremely restricting and limiting. And that brings me to the next point
> It seems that planets will become even less unique and even more of a "blank canvas" only differentiated by size. FML
 
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> The introduction of zones and a potentially higher building count seems to point out a higher development ceiling to planets, to which I say: Hell yes. A bigger tradeoff between fleet building and planet development would make for a more interesting game

[...]

> It seems that specialized planets will be far less common. The entire mechanic of unlocking building slots through different districts/zones is a huge incentive for it, in addition to the whole logistic trade upkeep. That's an interesting change and I am open to trying it out, but that also might be far too much of an incentive for swinging the pendulum in the opposite direction and making all our planets "generalists". We will see.

I don't think specialised planets will be less common, though going unspecialised isn't going to be necessarily bad anymore which opens up some diversity. Specialsied worlds will have less building slots but in 4.0 that's going to matter a lot less than now due to the fundamental changes in how they work. Currently you want as many slots as possible since buildings give jobs (particularly the good ones) and you can stack the same buildings on a planet. In 4.0 a huge change will be that most buildings are planet unique, limited to specific zones, and will modify the jobs that zones provide.

So a tech world with only city districts and three research zones is going to have significantly less building slots than a rural world (6 vs 21). But that isn't necessarily going to matter since those slots will be modifying the output of the zones, which are the ones creating jobs. On your tech world you probably don't want to build an agricultural district just to get an agrizone, just to get three more slots. Since those slots won't be able to take buildings that modify your researcher output.

We'll have to see how it plays out of course but I don't think specialisation is going away, at least not due to raw building slot numbers.
 
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We'll have to see how it plays out of course but I don't think specialisation is going away, at least not due to raw building slot numbers.
One can only hope! Don't get me wrong, I don't like "nondecisions" either, such as making every single world a specialist one. I am glad that having non-specialized planets is a viable, alternative strategy now.

But one thing I can see changing is the usefulness of planetary ascensions. Perhaps those will need to be buffed, considering how the share of specialized worlds on any given empire is going to be reduced in this new version. It is going to be even more niche.

Also, no idea how to "translate" building slot bonuses, either. Adding just one more building slot per zone seems insanely OP in this new system. Perhaps one "standard building" that you chose per empire that won't consume a slot when "built" on its zone? I dunno.
 
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Also, no idea how to "translate" building slot bonuses, either. Adding just one more building slot per zone seems insanely OP in this new system. Perhaps one "standard building" that you chose per empire that won't consume a slot when "built" on its zone? I dunno.

Yeah I also have no firm idea off the top of my head what will replace those mechanics, they won't exist since it doesn't seem like zone slots need to be unlocked. They're just there the moment you build the zone (none of the mockups have a "slot blocked" icon).

The design intent behind building slot unlock modifiers seems to be: they allow builds that focus on non-city districts on to unlock jobs, via buildings, that would otherwise need more cities. So what would achieve this in the new set up?

Best I can think of to translate that would be a loosening of the restrictions zones have for what buildings can be placed in them. For example; in the current set up if you're playing agrarian idyll you can build a lot of farms and labs on one planet. Perhaps AL in the new system allows you to build a lab in your agrizones rather than an urban research zone to give farmers research output.
 
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Something I would like with the rework would be to distinguish citizens from robots/slaves by having the later be less efficient/pop but more efficient/building (district now). The fact that you now use workforce instead of pops would be great for that.

Imagine for instance that 100 citizen fill 100 jobs at 100% efficiency (times their bonus)
100 robots / slaves could fill 50 jobs at 150% efficiency. Meaning that with 200 of them the district will run at 150% efficiency (times their bonus) but a slave is only 0.75 times as efficient as a citizen.
Numbers are placeholders not meant to be balanced but to show the concept.

This would push different gameplays for egalitarian/slaver empires.
In the former you would have a good efficiency with your natural growth and would have to work on your infrastructures. You would need buildings that increase district efficency to have as many jobs as possible for your pops.
With a slaver empire, having efficient districts would not be as important as having more pops to even fill them. You would need to conquer planets, buy slaves, create thrall worlds to reach a higher population than a full citizenship empire. That would be the same with a mecanist empire without synth rights. You would need to create as many machines as possible to work menial jobs.
 
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Looks good but as said try to keep visual immersion.I would have bigger planet visual and portait and less icon size for mining,etc

The planets being dull is another thing.I hope more personality is added down the line.
 
Since Buildings only affect the output of the Jobs in a specific District, how will Holdings/Branch offices work in the new System?

Edit: never mind, I overread this:
  • Buildings typically modify the production of Jobs themselves, though may also provide static numbers of Jobs.
 
B) The buildings you saw in the mockups, especially the robot factory, are placeholders. And to be super specific about the robot factory, outside of the government zone, the robot factory will not effect pop growth but instead handle automation.
Automation using the robot factories feels a bit odd. Have you put any thought into how you want to thematically differentiate automation workforce from non-intelligent robot pops?
 
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