I am worried the turkic tribes will get shafted in the Steppe dlc in favor of the Mongols

[Bisonmask]

Turks received no flavor in either the Persian dlc or in the supposed dedicated steppe dlc.As for the devs hearing concerns,they said the same about serious objections in the 1178 byzantine border situation which is bad and nevertheless still isnt resolved.Also the reply was a noncommital "maybe in the future" eg probably never.They could at least bother giving them their proper clothes which exist since Legacy of Persia and not keep them wearing mongol clothing.

Also, critically as somebody who doesn't care either way about Turkic flavor, the general lack of care extends to gameplay. The Sultanate of Rum not only hasn't reliably formed since the release of the game almost 5 years ago and the situation was made even worse with the last expansion. It makes playing in Anatolia, Iraq, Syria-Palestine, Egypt, and Anatolia all feel more unfinished than they really need to be.

That said I do expect to eventually see a Turkic expansion eventually it's just strange that such a central group of cultures for all three starts hasn't gotten any specific content

 

[aegeann13]

I think we should compile all of our suggestions into a single thread where the developers can read through them and hopefully add them to the game.

Turkic Flavor for "Khans of the Steppe"

Since the new Steppe DLC will probably be lacking of some flavor for Turkic cultures, I decided to make a suggestions thread. Please comment your ideas, maybe we can convince the devs to implement some of them in the coming weeks until the dlc's...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

there u go

 

[klopkr]

Op is so clairvoyant. What culture will be shafted under AuH? I'm betting on all of south east asia.

 

[Koppel235]

That said I do expect to eventually see a Turkic expansion eventually it's just strange that such a central group of cultures for all three starts hasn't gotten any specific content

I dread that turkic flavor will be relegated to Content Creator Packs.

 

[TheLeviathanOfLevistus]

When I play a specific culture, I often have a goal in mind for that playthrough. When I played an Occitan character in southern France, my goal was to unite all of the Occitan speakers in France and Iberia into an Occitan-speaking Cathar empire. When I played as a Manichean Greek adventurer in Persia, my goal was to reform the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom. When I played as a Hellenic Roman in Cagliari, my goal was to Unite Italia and form the Roman Empire.

Normally, once I accomplish this goal, I’m both done with the playthrough and done with the idea of that playthrough. I don’t need to do it again.

This is all to explain that I will probably only play as a Mongol character a single time. And it will probably be Temujin with the goal of becoming Genghis Khan. He will have unique content, so why would I play any other Mongolic character that doesn’t? This is also why when I did a Zoroastrian Persia playthrough I played as Rostam of the Sassanid Dynasty. Why would I be anyone else? And once I’ve played as that character and accomplished that goal, why would I do it again? I only do that if I really, really like the gameplay/story.

This is why I wish there was more unique content for the other steppe cultures in this DLC. I’ll probably only do one Mongolic Greatest of Khans playthroughs, but if the Turks, Magyars, or Alans/Saka had unique content, I’d definitely do playthroughs for each of them.

But all of the previewed content has been created for the Mongols. There is a tiny bit of flavor for the Turks in new cultural traditions and alternative names for Genghis Khan, but that’s not enough to motivate me to play those cultures. It would be cool to play as a Bolgar/Bulgarian character and create Old Great Bulgaria. It would be cool to be an Alan Pagan and recreate the kingdom of the Royal Scythians. It would be cool to be a Magyar character in 867 and decide to settle somewhere else, or just stay on the Steppe for a while.

The one time I did play as a Turkic character on the Steppe, it was as the Khazars because there were unique decisions I wanted to do. Reforming their Jewish religion and creating Khazar Israel was fun. This sort of flavor content acts like Mission Trees in other paradox games.

This is why I’m so disappointed that the focus of the DLC seems to almost entirely be on the Mongols. As cool as they are, I don’t think I’ll be playing a Mongol character more than once. I would prefer that they focused on giving a bit of content and flavor to all of the Steppe cultures over focusing all their attention on the Mongols. Especially because it will be a long time to wait for the other cultures to get any flavor, if they ever do.

 

[Koppel235]

But all of the previewed content has been created for the Mongols. There is a tiny bit of flavor for the Turks in new cultural traditions and alternative names for Genghis Khan, but that’s not enough to motivate me to play those cultures. It would be cool to play as a Bolgar/Bulgarian character and create Old Great Bulgaria. It would be cool to be an Alan Pagan and recreate the kingdom of the Royal Scythians. It would be cool to be a Magyar character in 867 and decide to settle somewhere else, or just stay on the Steppe for a while.

You raised very good points.As for me its the same with playing Karakhanids or Oghuz Yabguids or the Ashina Khazar and restore the Old Gokturk Khaganate.

 

[Enku7071]

Also, critically as somebody who doesn't care either way about Turkic flavor, the general lack of care extends to gameplay. The Sultanate of Rum not only hasn't reliably formed since the release of the game almost 5 years ago and the situation was made even worse with the last expansion. It makes playing in Anatolia, Iraq, Syria-Palestine, Egypt, and Anatolia all feel more unfinished than they really need to be.

That said I do expect to eventually see a Turkic expansion eventually it's just strange that such a central group of cultures for all three starts hasn't gotten any specific content

I also think that the Turkic nations will have their own expansion later down the line, now that a "base" mechanics for nomadic nations have been added. Maybe alongside with Slavic expansion/flavour pack, don't remember them having any special events/mechanics 'n stuff. Worth mentioning that the Indian subcontinent is still essentially a random kingdom generator sandbox with a sprinkle of "flavours" that exists there just to fill up the map. Aaaaand let's not even talk about Africa.

I think that PDX is pretty much finalising the necessary mechanics and maps this year so that they can do sth actually interesti... ah fuck, I forgot about the trade and republics. Also religions update. They really have to do sth with flavour and more content for different cultures as well, don't they? Like, instead of keeping the players waiting for another year or two?

 

[peteoj]

It's actually so insane knowing that with this nomadic dlc the seljuks turks will still probably never even try to move into anatolia after the pathetic and frankly poorly implemented war for armenia they start currently participating in on 1066 especially when you realize that the Turkish invasion of anatolia literally kick started the crusades.

It such a no thinker slam dunk of an idea, the biggest baddest nomads at the time, the turks, get big features and spotlights in the nomad dlc to compliment the Byzantium dlc dropped last year. Instead we get a Mongol flavor pack disguised as a steppe nomad dlc .

I just want someone to please tell me how the turks will work in 1178, are they still sedentary and weak due to their government type and the fact that they are surrounded by the OP byzantines, constantly collapse into civil wars or split into multiple smaller weaker kingdoms during succession and are currently the minority in the region they're currently ruling or did the devs finally get around to making them actually partly historically accurate and still somewhat nomadic as well as still quite powerful when united. Can a dev just tell me if they tweaked 1178 already?

An interesting idea I had when I first saw the first nomad dev diary earlier this year was that they would give places like Seljuk Persia or Anatolia a clan government for its central empire whilst a majority of its Vassals in the borders would be nomadic and loosely allied to the central government sort of acting like tributaries. But we all know ck3 dlcs don't mesh well together and are all completely seperate from one another so I was a fool to even want that in the first place.

 

[DONGHAIZHIDABIE]

It's actually so insane knowing that with this nomadic dlc the seljuks turks will still probably never even try to move into anatolia after the pathetic and frankly poorly implemented war for armenia they start currently participating in on 1066 especially when you realize that the Turkish invasion of anatolia literally kick started the crusades.

It such a no thinker slam dunk of an idea, the biggest baddest nomads at the time, the turks, get big features and spotlights in the nomad dlc to compliment the Byzantium dlc dropped last year. Instead we get a Mongol flavor pack disguised as a steppe nomad dlc .

I just want someone to please tell me how the turks will work in 1178, are they still sedentary and weak due to their government type and the fact that they are surrounded by the OP byzantines, constantly collapse into civil wars or split into multiple smaller weaker kingdoms during succession and are currently the minority in the region they're currently ruling or did the devs finally get around to making them actually partly historically accurate and still somewhat nomadic as well as still quite powerful when united. Can a dev just tell me if they tweaked 1178 already?

An interesting idea I had when I first saw the first nomad dev diary earlier this year was that they would give places like Seljuk Persia or Anatolia a clan government for its central empire whilst a majority of its Vassals in the borders would be nomadic and loosely allied to the central government sort of acting like tributaries. But we all know ck3 dlcs don't mesh well together and are all completely seperate from one another so I was a fool to even want that in the first place.

Are seljuks turks in 1066 or 1178 still in the steppe or nomadic?

 

[tribnia]

Anyway the DLC is called Khans of Steppe not Tsars of Danube or Sultans of Anatolia. What about discussing more about pagan nomads who actually dominated the steppe then?

 

[Koppel235]

Op is so clairvoyant. What culture will be shafted under AuH? I'm betting on all of south east asia.

Oh you can bet Korea and Japan will wait a lot of time to get their own flavor after the Spring Asia dlc.

 

[peteoj]

Are seljuks turks in 1066 or 1178 still in the steppe or nomadic?

They are semi nomadic with the rulers being sedentary in their capitals while tribal chiefs and warlords freely grazed and shirked central authority, it's partially why manzikert happened. Regardless of the truces made by the seljuks and Constantinople these tribal nomads would still raid and pillage Armenia and anatolia. This phenomenon increased in scale post manzikert and the seljuk sultanate of Rum's establishment with Konya having even less central authority and nomads under their rule freely raiding and grazing on Roman lands. This was somewhat the same as people like the Khazars which is why I'm so surprised but not shocked that it isn't going to be a thing.

 

[peteoj]

Anyway the DLC is called Khans of Steppe not Tsars of Danube or Sultans of Anatolia. What about discussing more about pagan nomads who actually dominated the steppe then?

They turks dominated the steppes so did the Khazars what are you saying? The dlc is called Khan's of the steppe and there were hundreds of Turkic polities in the steppe, you say it's not called sultans of anatolia but brother where do you think those sultans came from? Not to mention the devs call this the nomad dlc not the mongol dlc, if they stated it was gonna primarily be a Mongol flavor pack then I'd understand you but they didn't, that's not how they're marketing it.

 

[DONGHAIZHIDABIE]

They are semi nomadic with the rulers bring sedentary in their capitals while tribal chiefs and warlords freely grazed and shirked central authority, it's partially why manzikert happened. Regardless of the truces made by the seljuks and Constantinople these tribal nomads would still raid and pillage Armenia and anatolia. This phenomenon increased in scale post manzikert and the seljuk sultanate of Rum's establishment with Konya having even less central authority and nomads under their rule freely raiding and grazing on Roman lands. This was somewhat the same as people like the Khazars which is why I'm so surprised but not shocked that it isn't going to be a thing.

I think when it comes to the Turkic flavor in the steppe DlC, we should first focus on the full nomadic such as Cuman or Kimek.
The similarity within the steppe is clearly greater than the similarity between the steppe and Anatolia or Persia.

 

[Muezzahan]

Anyway the DLC is called Khans of Steppe not Tsars of Danube or Sultans of Anatolia. What about discussing more about pagan nomads who actually dominated the steppe then?

Hmm... Lets discuss about "pagan nomads who actually dominated the steppe" in the game's timeframe.

Kirghiz khanate
Karakhanid Khanate (later would convert to islam)
Cuman-Kipchak confederation
Khazar khanate (Their jewish faith is unreformed)
Pechenegs
Volga Bolghars (Later would convert to islam)

And many more that doesn't fit into the timeframe of ck3

Now, i have a proposal for you.
Lets discuss mongolic states that actually mattered in ck3 timeframe before genghis khan. See if they can surpass the number of Turkic states.

 

[Muezzahan]

starting to think y'all just want Turkic supremacy rather than representation;

No. We just don't want mongol supremacy rather than representation.

 

[Delterius]

and the devs have signaled to you that they hear your concerns

That happened because of threads like these.

 

[philsomeblanks]

my issue is less the existence of the thread and more the weird vitriolic tone y'all are taking

but this is a good reminder that i don't actually enjoy keeping up with the forums and reading all the teeth-gnashing hair-pulling hyperbole, so farewell good luck and godspeed

 

[Rex Hiemis]

Oh you can bet Korea and Japan will wait a lot of time to get their own flavor after the Spring Asia dlc.

This was my initial doubt about adding Asia. Until they release an Asian flavour pack, we will probably get an Asian cosmetic pack wrapped in generic CK stuff.

 

[Delterius]

but this is a good reminder that i don't actually enjoy keeping up with the forums and reading all the teeth-gnashing hair-pulling hyperbole

the forum shall miss your calm and measured words