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Zones; what is good, what needs to be fixed before 4.0

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SirBlackAxe said:
That said, factions not working correctly does mean a unity cushion that would've propped you up for a while longer is (usually) missing.
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In one Parliamentary System beta-test game I happened to get two relevant factions first, and it was +177 Unity per month.

That's quite the monumental "cushion".

Even with only one relevant faction, which happened in the next beta-test game, it was still almost +80 Unity per month from month 2.
 
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HFY said:
In one Parliamentary System beta-test game I happened to get two relevant factions first, and it was +177 Unity per month.

That's quite the monumental "cushion".

Even with only one relevant faction, which happened in the next beta-test game, it was still almost +80 Unity per month from month 2.
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I haven't tried Parliamentary System, and I don't think I've seen a faction giving more than like 20 unity (and not for lack of trying by resettling good ethic pops back to my capital every month to preclude tiny factions forming on my colonies). It feels like the game forms factions out of either the smallest or maybe the newest pop group of that ethic, so getting them to form really early before your pops are split across colonies or have had much time for ethics divergence would be very strong.

Also that looks like factions are giving 100x too much unity, which is being masked by the majority of your pops (usually) being unable to join one.
 
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SirBlackAxe said:
I haven't tried Parliamentary System, and I don't think I've seen a faction giving more than like 20 unity (and not for lack of trying by resettling good ethic pops back to my capital every month to preclude tiny factions forming on my colonies). It feels like the game forms factions out of either the smallest or maybe the newest pop group of that ethic, so getting them to form really early before your pops are split across colonies or have had much time for ethics divergence would be very strong.

Also that looks like factions are giving 100x too much unity, which is being masked by the majority of your pops (usually) being unable to join one.
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Yeah the majority of pops being unable to join a Faction really does hamper testing that.

The one game I had where it worked perfectly was Mat + Fan Egal, and I got roughly a 70 / 30 split between the two, all of whom were pretty happy.
 
Tisifoni12 said:
Which may work well if you have the two automatic suitable worlds for colonisation nearby.

If however you turn that off and go with a random distribution of worlds matching your species' preferred type it is going to be more difficult.

There are limited options to deal with 'Scum and Villainy' and if you're in a unity deficit spiral and don't have 250 headroom to 'fund' law enforcement.
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If the problem is a lack of Unity, why did you swap the Archives to only Research? You cut your Unity, and then went into a death spiral. So leave the Archives as is. That's the consequences of the Zones system, you're trapped with this one mixed build.

Personally I think it's a bad idea, but they're going with it, full steam ahead.
 
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Archives seems like a weird Zone title / function. Also weird that a Zone labelled Archives thar comprises Engineering research, physics research and generic research labs should perform differently to with the same composition labelled Research.

We've got districts, zones, buildings and the planet 'label'; Empire capital, agri-world, mining world, etc. Zone labels and Planet labels, a mining world with a unity zone and a factory zone . . .
 
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Games where I've gone for the guaranteed two planets option tend to go better, but you end up with a vast Empire with most of your population concentrated in one corner on three planets.

Games where I've turned that option off (and you can call my species picky) I've really not found sufficiently compatible planets for those key first couple of colonies.
 
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Tisifoni12 said:
Archives seems like a weird Zone title / function. Also weird that a Zone labelled Archives thar comprises Engineering research, physics research and generic research labs should perform differently to with the same composition labelled Research.

We've got districts, zones, buildings and the planet 'label'; Empire capital, agri-world, mining world, etc. Zone labels and Planet labels, a mining world with a unity zone and a factory zone . . .
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Someone suggested "Forum" instead of Archives, as it covers both Unity and Research thematically. Not perfect, but I think it's a better fit.
 
You can't upgrade research that's in an Archives Zone . . .
That's a bit annoying; had to demolish research and physics research to re-designate Archives as Research.
Perhaps there'll be provision to re-designate a zone without demolishing all the buildings in ir provided the buildings in the zone are permitted in both zone designations.

If you're not going to do the automatic two compatible planets thing then increase the incidence of planets to '2' in the Galaxy customisation.
 
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Red Death said:
There's not going to be another update to the beta.
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Still dev diaries though, and there should be one tomorrow.

I have a feeling that the progress of this dev diary (basically, is a quarter of the needed work done since the last one, accounting for a freeze at some point before release) will strongly indicate how good, bad, or ugly 4.0 will be.
 
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Tisifoni12 said:
You can't upgrade research that's in an Archives Zone . . .
That's a bit annoying; had to demolish research and physics research to re-designate Archives as Research.
Perhaps there'll be provision to re-designate a zone without demolishing all the buildings in ir provided the buildings in the zone are permitted in both zone designations.

If you're not going to do the automatic two compatible planets thing then increase the incidence of planets to '2' in the Galaxy customisation.
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They've suggested this will be fixed for the release of 4.0, that any buildings in a Zone that are allowed in a new Zone will not need to be destroyed to change the Zone. So instead of:


X No buildings allowed
to swap a Zone, it will only allow you to swap to a Zone that allow all the buildings in the new zone.
 
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Thiend said:
Still dev diaries though, and there should be one tomorrow.

I have a feeling that the progress of this dev diary (basically, is a quarter of the needed work done since the last one, accounting for a freeze at some point before release) will strongly indicate how good, bad, or ugly 4.0 will be.
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All remaining scheduled dev diaries are going to be hype/marketing focus for the DLC. I seriously doubt there are going to be any planet management changes put in as that would suck the air out of people talking about the DLC. Maybe we'll get an unplanned dev diary in between the scheduled ones giving us update on the planetary changes. Would be nice actually.
 
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Juboboman said:
All remaining scheduled dev diaries are going to be hype/marketing focus for the DLC. I seriously doubt there are going to be any planet management changes put in as that would suck the air out of people talking about the DLC. Maybe we'll get an unplanned dev diary in between the scheduled ones giving us update on the planetary changes. Would be nice actually.
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That fits into my expectations. No disclosed progress just means the answer is "ugly."
 
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Tisifoni12 said:
Has gone v. quiet; all waiting for the next update . . .
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I can't say for others but I personally got tired of going in circles in these discussions. I've said what I wanted, heard a lot of different proposals, had some back and forth here and there. What else there to do? I would've loved to see some of ideas floated in this thread to be implemented as prototypes in-game to see what works. But we are not devs here, so that's than.

There would be no more updates for beta, and DDs are going to be about features of a new DLC. A DLC I personally have absolute zero interest in btw. So we are just waiting for 4.0 to come out. And then we would all have jolly good time being absolutely not surprised that nothing really was changed apart from some new zones and maybe changes to buildings (right now building upgrades are weird, they are neither here nor there, so this is less of a change but rather a fix of an incomplete system)
 
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My current experience with zones was not too bad (i am someone too lazy minmaxing single jobs).

The mixed starter zones actually caused my economy to be more stable (i usually have trouble getting enough cg). But my initial science gain was comparatively low. I maxed the capital districts till i built up my starter colonies, which i dedicated one to forge zones and the other to cg. Only then i was able to switch the capital to research zones and rake in the quicker tech gains. My 4. Planet got unity zones.
Whats nice is that what would be clerks in previous versions now works more useful jobs and that no full basic resource specialization was needed. Actually my unity zone planet was specialized on energy. I build up the advanced zones while also developing the basic zones on need. And later switched more and more districts from basic to city in demand, gradually specializing one planet after another.

Its a different way to approach the economy as u dont instantly fully specialize a planet but do it more gradually. At no point i was feeling running out of pops.

Naturally I also saw some issues:
- I never needed keep track of my trade, as being in deficite doesnt give punishment.
- housing is never an issue. As u now go into city districts, which provide more housing than the old industrial districts
- luxury appartments are op. Make amenities or any other building providing them obsolete
- strategic ressource gain is over the top. The buidings only taking like 4 in upkeep while granting over 100 per planet? And there is no real reason not to put it on ur forge or cg world? It might drain ur energy but selling the excess strat ressources on the market grants way more than u spent.
 
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We'll continue showing progress in the weekly livestreams, which will be continuing until release. (Exception: May 1st, since that's a holiday.)

Tisifoni12 said:
Perhaps there'll be provision to re-designate a zone without demolishing all the buildings in ir provided the buildings in the zone are permitted in both zone designations.
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Internally, you can now replace them freely, and any buildings that fit in both will be retained. (Any that don't will be destroyed. It gives you a list.)

1744270267292.png
 
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