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Tinto Maps #6 Great Britain & Ireland Feedback

9 September 2024 12 May 2025​


What an exciting week we have had, and best of all I finally get to say the name Europa Universalis V. It still feels weird in my mouth after carefully saying Caesar for what feels like a lifetime.

But lo, the day is finally come for the British Isles feedback thread. This short update was supposed to come out a few months ago, but I just had to teach some of you a lesson. Also I had a lot of other things on, like appearing in the announcement show last week.


Here we see the updated topography:

topography.jpg



The updated vegetation:
vegetation.jpg



Many impassable barriers have been added, for example the various peaks of the Pennines and the Wicklow Mountains. The Shannon also now poses a more significant barrier between east and west Ireland, with only a few crossing points often guarded by stockades.


Here we have the Locations map, bear in mind they are only showing the default English names but many places have Gaelic or Brythonic versions.

locations.jpg




Every country has had a general increase in density.

England, in particular the south, has had a big revamp at Location and Province level to more accurately reflect the historical counties, many of them pre-Norman in origin and many of them still in use today in some form. Westminster as a capital has been killed and rolled into a monolithic London.




Provinces:
provinces.jpg


Areas:

areas.jpg



And political mapmode (with overlord colouring off):
political.png




And Dynasties:
dynasty.jpg


We have added the Earldom of Orkney in the northern isles as a Norwegian vassal. Meanwhile the Palatinate of Durham and Chester have both been promoted from a special set of buildings to vassals under England. Wales has also been limited strictly to the Principality of Wales, with the marcher lords existing as very low control locations under England.

Ireland has had a major rework in terms of locations and tags. Mostly there have been minor Irish chieftaincies added. As always we are grateful to the many suggestions that have come from the forumers.



Culture:
culture.jpg



The most obvious culture change is that English has had Northumbrian split off, to represent the divide between southern and northern dialects and attitudes. A practical example of this is how in the south the English are more friendly to Normans, whereas the Northumbrians hate them (the northern shires still bear the scars of the Harrying of the North). Northumbrians and Scots also spoke a similar form of English in this period, so it helps to set them up as a sort of middleman.

Norwegians in northern Scotland and the nearby North Atlantic have also been split into Norn.


As a bonus, Court Language, showing 3 main worlds: Gaelic, Anglo-French, and Roman Catholic Bishoprics.

court_language.jpg



There have also been some changes to Raw Goods, as you can see here:

raw.jpg





We still have time to make some changes, so let us know what we can do to push this even further towards where it needs to be.

I won’t show Population numbers right now, as it’s pending a proper rework. Among other things, the idea is to reduce the population numbers in England.
 
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Glad to see Ireland refined a bit more. My main issues with this update is that the counties of Kilkenny and Carlow appear to be part of the Munster Area, when they should probably be in Leinster. Also, Connaught seems to have annexed regions to its east that don't belong to it?
All of Bréifne would have been considered part of Connacht at this stage.
 
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Nice, is there an event late game for more coal and iron in the north west? As there were some big mines I don't spot. Also and not sure why I didn't mention this earlier - canals there was a big system of canals running across the country is this shown at all?
 
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Looking over the Irish areas, it does feel very strange that Kilkenny is part of Munster - it creates weird borders, uneven area sizes (at present Munster has 28 locations but Leinster only has 23, were Kilkenny part of Leinster it would be 26/25), and according to some quick reading on Wikipedia (I apologise that I can't provide a better source) the Kingdom of Osraige, which roughly corresponds to Kilkenny and had the town of Kilkenny as its capital, was only part of Munster up until the mid-9th century after which it became attached to Leinster, and indeed was part of the Lordship of Leinster after the Norman (English) invasion of Ireland.
 
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For those interested, FeedbackGaming left an explanation of why he didn't look at the High Kingdom IO in his playthrough, it was bugged and made the game crash when opened:
(Top comment on this video)

Probably because it's still being worked on, might not have much to show in it yet.
 
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I really dislike the term "the Home Counties". It's sometimes suggested there's earlier attestations, but it didn't arise as a term of use with any frequency until the late 1800s, well outside of the game period. I also dislike Mercia for the opposite reason - it had completely fallen out of use by even 1337. Mercia is if anything even worse than the Home Counties, as the borders of the Kingdom of Mercia extended well beyond what is depicted.

England never really had permanent large-scale regional divisions in the time period, so it is very hard to find anything that could work that well naming wise. I honestly don't think there's much problem with simply using "North of England", "South of England", "West Country", "the Midlands". They're simple descriptive terms and have been in use for a long, long time.

Simple geographical terms have been used elsewhere - I note Northern Germany and Southern Germany, for example.

As a separate point, I also very much dislike how the culture in Northumbria is called Northumbrian and the culture south of the Humber is called English. It implies that Northumbrians are somehow not English, which is not remotely how they saw themselves and is also perhaps slightly insulting, giving the south of England a claim to Englishness the North doesn't get. If there has to be a cultural split there, could we instead have English and Anglish, denoting a less Norman-ified form of the English culture?
 
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Hi. I live near the wicklow mountains, and I think it's an odd choice to make them "Impassable". I can't speak for the renaissance, but in the present day it's extremely easy to cross from Dublin into wicklow, and wicklow has always been in Dublin's orbit.

Further more, to describe the wicklow mountains as "mountains" is an exaggeration, most of them are hills with a rolling/glacial landscape. That means to ascend into the wicklow mountains is very easy. Indeed it takes just a days walk to walk from south Dublin into the heart of the wicklow mountains, and it isn't strenuous.

Perhaps in the time period it was less passable due to woods and bogs, but I don't think it should be impassable the way, say, the Alps are.
 
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Hi. I live near the wicklow mountains, and I think it's an odd choice to make them "Impassable". I can't speak for the renaissance, but in the present day it's extremely easy to cross from Dublin into wicklow, and wicklow has always been in Dublin's orbit.

Further more, to describe the wicklow mountains as "mountains" is an exaggeration, most of them are hills with a rolling/glacial landscape. That means to ascend into the wicklow mountains is very easy. Indeed it takes just a days walk to walk from south Dublin into the heart of the wicklow mountains, and it isn't strenuous.

Perhaps in the time period it was less passable due to woods and bogs, but I don't think it should be impassable the way, say, the Alps are.
1000023575.jpg


They are depicted as hills above not mountains
 
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Where are danelaw culture and scottish clans as playable nations? Plus english culture may be divided to mercian, east anglian, kentian, wessexian, essexian and sussexian.
heptarchy_interactive_map.jpg

Снимок экрана 2025-05-13 163851.png
 
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I really dislike the term "the Home Counties".
I don't love it. Incidentally I'm tempted to merge the Home Counties with East Anglia to make them more evenly-sized. But I don't have good flavor name for Home Counties or the conglomerate of Home Counties + East Anglia. South East England feels a bit contrived or boring.
 
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I don't love it. Incidentally I'm tempted to merge the Home Counties with East Anglia to make them more evenly-sized. But I don't have good flavor name for Home Counties or the conglomerate of Home Counties + East Anglia. South East England feels a bit contrived or boring.

Could just have "the North", "the Midlands", and "the South", by fusing Mercia and East Anglia (in 1337, they used very closely connected dialects and were heavily interlinked tradewise, unlike the present day where East Anglia perhaps has slightly more association with the South than the Midlands), and fusing the West Country and the Home Counties. Those three are a pretty time-honoured split of the English realm.

If you did do that, I'd probably take Essex out of East Anglia. I mean I'd do that anyway, but especially so.
 
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