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fake news. No authoritative data to support
Yes but actually no.

This C2-Star Cluster was initially proposed as the Y-lineage of Genghis Khan’s dynasty, given its geographic and temporal fit (archsci.fudan.edu.cn).

To say the man 100% is Han royalty decendents is overexaggeration. You can argue there are research against that and we can't make judgement directly by that research. But, that's no "Fake news". It is a possibility proven partially by academic research.
 
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Sorry, I realized last night that the scale of the teaser for Part II I posted was simply too massive, so I had no choice but to split it.

This second part will focus on the following questions:
  • Why has China historically often been divided into a northern and southern dynasty?
  • Why were southern dynasties always on the defensive?
  • Why were northern expeditions either unsuccessful or extremely difficult?
  • The necessity of "defending the Yangtze must begin with defending the Huai [River]."
  • A speculative scenario of a modern-day divided China resembling the Southern and Northern Dynasties period.
Let’s first address the first question: the geographical reasons behind the division into a northern and southern dynasty. Although all East Asian regions experienced periods of north-south division, China's Northern and Southern Dynasties period stands out as the most classic and extensive example. On such a grand scale, the impacts arising from geographical factors were more pronounced than in other regions. Upon closer examination, we can actually identify common geographical underpinnings behind the distribution patterns of north-south divisions across East Asia.

As with yesterday, let’s examine the following three maps:
  1. A (relatively simplistic) depiction of China’s four major climatic zones.
  2. The distribution of arid farmland versus paddy fields.
  3. A map showing the January 0°C isotherm.
2 (1).png
2 (2).png
2 (3).png

Compared to the maps I shared yesterday, we can still observe another striking similarity. There exists a hidden boundary between northern and southern China—one determined by climate and geography—that has shaped the country's division into north and south. This boundary is geographically known as the Qinling-Huaihe Line, marking the dividing zone between temperate monsoon climate and subtropical monsoon climate.

This climatic demarcation indirectly influenced the agricultural-pastoral frontier further north, which in turn played a role in shaping the broader geopolitical dynamics of East Asia.
qin-huai.png

We also know that monsoon climates are inherently unstable, being primarily driven by temperature fluctuations. Higher temperatures intensify the summer monsoon, causing the rain belt to shift northward. This northward movement of the rain belt results in increased humidity in the north, gradually transitioning the region toward a subtropical monsoon climate.

Rice, as a staple crop, yields significantly higher harvests than traditional northern crops like millet and broomcorn millet, and far more than wheat. Although rice was not considered a strategic grain reserve during the Tang Dynasty due to insufficient preservation techniques, the abundant rice harvests of that era were still sufficient to propel the dynasty into a period of prosperity and trigger a population explosion.

Moreover, the subtropical monsoon climate brings additional changes. For instance, vegetation on the Loess Plateau increases, sediment levels in the Yellow River decrease, and the likelihood of catastrophic flooding diminishes. Compared to the temperate monsoon climate, the subtropical variant is more stable, with significantly fewer droughts. All these factors strengthen the power of an agrarian empire. Of course, increased precipitation also enhances the strength of nomadic populations.But, we have some less favorable news.

This climatic shift also causes the agricultural-pastoral boundary to move northward, allowing agrarian empires to achieve unprecedented levels of strength. This enables the transformation of previously unsuitable lands into arable farmland.

And here’s another sobering reality: while the 3,000-meter-high Qinling Mountains effectively block the Southwest Monsoon from penetrating deep into the north, the Huai River, which primarily flows through plains, fails to stop the Southeast Monsoon. The Southeast Monsoon struggles even more to reach the lands west of the Loess Plateau, meaning the Hexi Corridor’s oasis grasslands and the northern Gobi Desert receive little additional rainfall or expanded pastureland.

Thus, while nomads do gain some marginal benefits, they remain vastly outmatched by a Central Plains dynasty that is twice—or even four times—their strength.

Reviewing Chinese history, we observe that the most powerful dynasties capable of defeating northern nomadic empires and expanding northward all emerged during periods of higher average temperatures, while weaker dynasties coincided with colder climates. Notably, the game’s key periods—the Yuan, Ming, and Qing Dynasties—all occurred under relatively cool conditions.
zhukezhen.png


The Yuan and Qing Dynasties managed to control the grasslands through mechanisms distinct from traditional Han-majority dynasties (we’ll discuss this later). The Ming Dynasty, however, exemplified a defensive posture: its westernmost expansion barely reached Hami, while in the north, despite Emperor Yongle’s frenzied northern campaigns against the Mongols, it never established the same dominance over the northern steppes as the Tang Dynasty or forced nomadic empires into submission like the Han Dynasty.

After its founding, the Ming spent most of its lifespan defending along the Great Wall. Even shortly after Yongle’s death, the dynasty voluntarily abandoned the Hetao region and began a decades-long contraction, relinquishing control over Nurgan and U-Tsang (Tibet).

Now we finally arrive at the main narrative: the division of China into northern and southern dynasties. We can observe that nearly all such periods of division coincided with colder climatic phases—even during the Song Dynasty, temperatures never returned to pre-divergence baseline levels.

Cold climates weakened the agrarian strength of Central Plains dynasties while forcing nomads to migrate southward more aggressively in search of survival. A weakened Central Plains state struggled to repel these nomadic incursions, while colder weather also drastically reduced rainfall in the north, triggering frequent droughts and cold spells. Even deadlier was the Yellow River, notorious for its violent floods, which lashed the North China Plain like a whip.

Starving peasants formed migrant waves, ravaging the land like locusts—devouring grain supplies wherever they went, swelling the ranks of refugees until they overwhelmed the dynasty’s capacity to provide relief. This sparked the largest peasant uprisings in history, with millions of angry farmers accusing the Central Plains dynasty of losing the Mandate of Heaven and failing to protect its people. Repeated uprisings drained the dynasty’s last strength, forcing its remnants to flee southward, shrinking into the relatively stable and prosperous south.

Meanwhile, colder climates also caused regional disparities: differences in climate led to variations in agriculture, which in turn fostered cultural divergences. This fractured the once-unified population into two (or even three, depending on whether a southern dynasty could control Sichuan) distinct groups. The ultimate result was a deepening north-south identity split, giving rise to the relatively stable phenomenon of divided northern and southern dynasties.

Additionally, under colder conditions, northern dynasties were inherently weaker than their southern counterparts. Although they controlled the North China Plain—the empire’s demographic and agricultural core—the region’s productivity during cold periods was limited compared to the south, and in extreme cases, even became a liability. This hindered northern dynasties from leveraging their military might to swiftly conquer the south and unify the realm.
 
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Reviewing Chinese history, we observe that the most powerful dynasties capable of defeating northern nomadic empires and expanding northward all emerged during periods of higher average temperatures, while weaker dynasties coincided with colder climates. Notably, the game’s key periods—the Yuan, Ming, and Qing Dynasties—all occurred under relatively cool conditions.
zhukezhen.png
1747417101520.png

A google translation of this chart I think would be useful as I think this is the very important one in your text.

And guys just ignore the bottom dynasty segment. That's where translation go wild. The Era is just time, starting from -2100 meaning 2100 BCE.
 
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View attachment 1300392
A google translation of this chart I think would be useful as I think this is the very important one in your text.

And guys just ignore the bottom dynasty segment. That's where translation go wild. The Era is just time, starting from -2100 meaning 2100 BCE.
Yes, this is the most important one—the temperature distribution chart by Zhu Kezhen. I recall that foreign studies based on ice core drilling in Greenland also obtained similar charts. Therefore, I didn't translate it (
 
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Yes but actually no.

This C2-Star Cluster was initially proposed as the Y-lineage of Genghis Khan’s dynasty, given its geographic and temporal fit (archsci.fudan.edu.cn).

To say the man 100% is Han royalty decendents is overexaggeration. You can argue there are research against that and we can't make judgement directly by that research. But, that's no "Fake news". It is a possibility proven partially by academic research.

To conclude that Genghis Khan is related to the Han people just because the some Neolithic culture is a c haplogroup, several things are needed.

1. If the c haplogroup is Han people, aren't the non-c friends are not Han people?

2. When exactly did the Han people form? Neolithic? If you go back too far, it'll just be a joke like Finno-Korean hyperwar

3. Is the Han people are bloodline or a culture? Selecting bloodlines and cultures only when necessary and expanding the scope of the Han people doesn't work at outside of China.
 
Is there any survey or paper about

1. fact that many nomadic peoples were actually descendants of the Han people

2. A survey shows that Genghis Khan has royal genes from the Han Dynasty.
This proves that Mongolians have many Han genes.
I found that Genghis Khan's descendants have Liu Bang's genes. This view holds that Genghis Khan is likely to be a descendant of Liu Bang, but I didn't find any papers, it may be a rumor. But it doesn’t matter
 
This proves that Mongolians have many Han genes.
I found that Genghis Khan's descendants have Liu Bang's genes. This view holds that Genghis Khan is likely to be a descendant of Liu Bang, but I didn't find any papers, it may be a rumor. But it doesn’t matter
This paper is not much different from what I know. "Neolithic" Yellow River farmers and Han people are not the same. Germanic people and Latin people are descendants of Indo-European people, but Germanic people are not descendants of Latin people. Would it be easier to understand if I compare it to that?
 
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刘渊:?
Liu Yuan was once Cao Cao's subordinate, a Xiongnu who was assimilated by Han. He didnt identify with the Xiongnu but with Han, and even named his regime Han. He vigorously promoted Hanization during his reign. You can say that the Xiongnu still existed as an ethnic group and had not completely disappeared, but as a nation it had completely perished and therefore had been wiped out in history.
 
This paper is not much different from what I know. "Neolithic" Yellow River farmers and Han people are not the same. Germanic people and Latin people are descendants of Indo-European people, but Germanic people are not descendants of Latin people. Would it be easier to understand if I compare it to that?
I agree that on the basis that discussing gene connections have no real values in history of human civilisations. As civilisations are based on culture and economic systems.
 
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Liu Yuan was once Cao Cao's subordinate
Dude they aren’t even in the same era in history.

Xiongnu still existed as an ethnic group and had not completely disappeared, but as a nation it had completely perished and therefore had been wiped out in history.
Eh, you didn’t state ethnic group Xiongnu or nation Xiongnu. And “nation” actually means 民族. So, I think you mean “state” when you say “nation”.

Anyway,
He vigorously promoted Hanization during his reign.
我猜你是国人我就直接用中文了,表意更简单一些:

汉赵之所以叫汉赵就是因为刘渊他儿子不认同汉,所以改名“赵”。而且匈奴刘是贵族。底层内迁屠各究竟有多少文化还两说。毕竟他们要真有文化,就不会有洛阳大火和荼毒关中了。

五胡十六国的出现本身就是对东汉晚期游牧民内迁政策的否定。魏晋表面光鲜的“编户齐民“,在内迁游牧民上层制造一批文学士族并不能从根本上解决“编户齐民”应该解决的问题。石勒这个人的经历就是一种佐证。华北地区其时大量存在的奴隶制甚至能让人把自己贩卖为奴。这是汉末社会失序的延续,人地矛盾的延续,以及整体社会压迫的延续。

正因这种延续,所以魏晋的文物风流最终光鲜亮丽地毁灭在了宁平城。
 
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This paper is not much different from what I know. "Neolithic" Yellow River farmers and Han people are not the same. Germanic people and Latin people are descendants of Indo-European people, but Germanic people are not descendants of Latin people. Would it be easier to understand if I compare it to that?
The article mentioned that the Han genes in the Mongols increased over time, and increased significantly during the Yuan Dynasty, rather than being separated long ago like German and Latin and thus sharing genes. It's more like German mixed with Latin before and after the invasion of the Roman Empire.
 
Next are the second and third questions: Why were the southern dynasties generally on the defensive? And why did the northern expeditions launched by the southern dynasties often end in failure or face great difficulties?

These two questions can actually be answered with a very simple reason: a lack of horses. Despite the stable climate and relative prosperity in the south, there was a shortage of grasslands for horse breeding. Whether in East Asia, Western Europe, or sub - Saharan Africa, before the invention of gunpowder, cavalry was always the most powerful military force. The abundant rainfall in the south and the natural disadvantage of lacking large plains meant that the few plains in the south were developed into farmland to support the population, leaving a shortage of grasslands for horse grazing.

The lack of grasslands led to a scarcity of horses, which in turn resulted in a shortage of cavalry. For a long time, the dynasties in southern China relied on the Ancient Tea Horse Road to obtain horses. These horses were transported to Yunnan through Myanmar and northeastern India, and then from Yunnan to Sichuan or Hunan. However, as introduced in the first part, the southwestern region of China is one of the most rugged areas in the world. The Ancient Tea Horse Road could only bring in a small number of horses. It was far from enough to form a large - scale cavalry force to compete with the northern dynasties.

The following three pictures respectively show the distribution of grasslands, forests, and cultivated land in China. We can clearly see the obvious differences between the north and the south.
3 (1).png
3 (2).png
3 (3).png

But, apart from the above reasons, there is another issue deeply rooted in human genes. Humans evolved on the tropical savannas of Africa, and our physical structure is more tolerant of relatively high temperatures rather than cold ones. Although the climate in southern China is relatively warm, its core area borders the north. Such temperature variations are not insurmountable for soldiers from Henan or Shandong. But when the southern army launched a northern expedition and approached the Yellow River, they would encounter the cold winter and be forced to halt.

Another geographical factor also contributed to the failure of the southern dynasties' northern expeditions. Yes, it's that damned and evil yellow serpent - the Yellow River.

The existence of the Yellow River disrupted the water system distribution and rivers on the North China Plain. The Yellow River embankments, which were built at great cost with the full might of a dynasty and the labor of millions of workers, could often reach a height of ten meters before collapsing, forming a giant earthen wall hundreds of kilometers long.

This earthen wall severed the water - system communication between the north and the south. As a result, when the well - developed inland water navies and grain - transportation systems in the south reached the banks of the Yellow River, they became useless. Even with the support of various canals, inland canals need natural rivers or lakes for water replenishment. As we mentioned earlier, due to the cooling climate, the north was arid, and lakes and rivers everywhere lacked sufficient water sources to supply the canals. Therefore, before the successful construction of the Grand Canal, the southern armies' offensives could at most reach the banks of the Yellow River and found it difficult to continue advancing northward.

Moreover, China is a traditional land - power country that has almost never focused on naval development. Moreover, the sea conditions in the East China Sea and the Yellow Sea are extremely complex, making it difficult for large - scale navies to pose an effective threat to the northern dynasties. (An interesting fact is that in 1840, when the British Empire attacked the Qing Dynasty, the British naval fleet blockaded the Qing coast, only to find it completely ineffective. Eventually, what forced the Qing Dynasty to surrender was that the British fleet sailed into the Yangtze River and cut off the transportation on the Grand Canal.)

In contrast, the situation was completely different for the northern dynasties. Compared with the southern dynasties, the northern dynasties had a larger or similar population, powerful cavalries, and although relatively weak, they also had some inland water navies. Therefore, once the northern dynasties were established, they would exert pressure on the southern dynasties. Although it was difficult for the northern dynasties to completely annex the southern dynasties in a short period, over time, the northern dynasties would eventually emerge victorious.

Since the core areas of both the southern and northern dynasties were plain regions, which were most conducive to cavalry charges, the southern dynasties lacking in cavalry could only engage in long - term passive defense. And the best defense is always offense. The southern dynasties, lacking offensive capabilities, would eventually be rapidly annexed once their main defensive lines were breached.
 
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Dude they aren’t even in the same era in history.
I means his father Liu Bao, sorry I'm really tired.
Eh, you didn’t state ethnic group Xiongnu or nation Xiongnu. And “nation” actually means 民族. So, I think you mean “state” when you say “nation”.
Nation is indeed related to state. To be more precise, it exists through state. But nation refers to the people, while state refers to the regime.
汉赵之所以叫汉赵就是因为刘渊他儿子不认同汉,所以改名“赵”。而且匈奴刘是贵族。底层内迁屠各究竟有多少文化还两说。毕竟他们要真有文化,就不会有洛阳大火和荼毒关中了。
Perhaps they still retained their uncivilized characteristics, but the Huns disappeared afterwards.
 
Nation is indeed related to state. To be more precise, it exists through state. But nation refers to the people, while state refers to the regime.
Yeh, that's why we say "Nation State" (民族国家/国族). But that's a different thing. I agree with part you say that there is a merge. But, saying Xiongnu dissolved after Cao Cao subjugated Liu Bao is still a very bold claim.

Perhaps they still retained their uncivilized characteristics, but the Huns disappeared afterwards.
Eh, I don't know how to put this but that's a really big "Perhaps". The dissolution of Xiongnu should be at least dated to this:

"咸和四年,九月,石勒將石季龍擊胤,斬之,進屠上邽,盡滅劉氏,坑其黨三千餘人。......坑其王公等及五郡屠各五千余人于洛陽。"
 
Yeh, that's why we say "Nation State" (民族国家/国族). But that's a different thing. I agree with part you say that there is a merge. But, saying Xiongnu dissolved after Cao Cao subjugated Liu Bao is still a very bold claim
If a nation wants to influence history, it should first be a nation. After Cao Cao wiped out the Southern Xiongnu, it was hard to say that the Xiongnu was a nation. The ruled ethnic group has no history of its own. This is why we talk about the history of the French and Germans but not the history of the Alsatians (strictly speaking, they are not "real" Germans, they speak Alsatian), because their situation is completely dominated by the French and Germans. Although it is tragic, this is the historical fact.


"咸和四年,九月,石勒將石季龍擊胤,斬之,進屠上邽,盡滅劉氏,坑其黨三千餘人。......坑其王公等及五郡屠各五千余人于洛陽。"
Sorry, mais I don't think that massacres can really destroy a nation. As long as their culture is still attractive, they can continue to revive. Just like the Romans were massacred, the Roman state had long been destroyed, the barbarians became Romans (such as the Gauls), spoke the Romance language, used the Roman religion, and imitated the Romans in all aspects, so Rome still exists. Although many nations were not massacred, their culture was despised by the conquerors and eventually assimilated. This is the real destruction. So at that time, the Huns had actually perished, but had not yet entered the grave.
 
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The article mentioned that the Han genes in the Mongols increased over time, and increased significantly during the Yuan Dynasty, rather than being separated long ago like German and Latin and thus sharing genes. It's more like German mixed with Latin before and after the invasion of the Roman Empire.
몽고;. 파나흐


I cant find the mention, increased "significantly" during the Yuan Dynasty at article.
according to article image mongol and han is too far, that mean "Han genes" increased at Mongols during yuan dynasty is not many

mongol2.png

and what is "han gene"?
according to article image, then jiangsu and fujian, shanxi, sichuan is low han gene than mongolian?
or Hubei and Henan has many "dong yi" "bei di" gene?
 
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Based on the above analysis, we can identify the reasons for the weakness of the southern dynasties. However, a question arises: where was the main defensive line of the southern dynasties? Most people might immediately think of the Yangtze River. This is not entirely wrong, but also not entirely correct. Because the Yangtze River was the last line of defense. Once the defensive line shrank to the Yangtze River, it meant that the southern dynasty would perish within decades or even just a few years.

This leads us to the fourth question - why was it essential to defend the Huai River in order to defend the Yangtze River?

If you have looked at historical maps of China, you will find that the northern border of the southern dynasties was highly similar to the northern part of the Qinling-Huaihe Line mentioned in the first question. Most people may understand the defensive significance of the Qinling Mountains. But why the Huai River? Compared with mountainous boundaries, rivers are naturally unstable, not to mention a river that mainly flows through plains and is not as wide as the Yangtze River. Why did it become a stable boundary?

Let's take a look at a simple topographic map of southern China.
4 (1).png

This topographic map is relatively simple. It classifies many hills as plains, but you can still see that the terrain in southern China appears fragmented, lacking the continuous large plains like those in the north. The largest plain here is directly connected to the North China Plain. Maintaining this defensive line requires far more military forces and national financial resources compared to abandoning the line and retreating southward. A relatively better approach would be to use the Yangtze River as the defensive line and completely abandon the defensive line north of the Yangtze River. However, none of the southern dynasties adopted this solution.

Next, I will use some simple hand - drawn sketches to illustrate this issue.
n.png

From this artistic depiction of China at night, we can identify the major cities in several southern provinces of China. They are Shanghai, Nanjing, Changsha, Wuhan, Nanchang, Guangzhou, and Chengdu. Apart from Shanghai, all the other places are metropolises that have thrived for thousands of years. They respectively represent several key plains in the southern dynasties, and it was relying on these core plains that the southern dynasties were able to confront the northern dynasties.
w.png

This daytime map more clearly reveals the differences in terrain. We can see that after losing the North China Plain, the power centers of the southern dynasties were fragmented into several small regions. Among these small regions, the two largest plains are the middle and lower reaches of the Yangtze River Plain and the Jianghan Plain.

The capitals of the southern dynasties in China were generally located in the middle and lower reaches of the Yangtze River Plain, namely Nanjing or Hangzhou. Why didn't they choose the Jianghan Plain as the capital?

There is a relatively small area called the Nanyang Basin to the north of the Jianghan Plain. Although there are mountains surrounding the Nanyang Basin, there is a huge gap in it. Moreover, it is adjacent to Henan Province, which is in the central part of the North China Plain - the most populous and densely populated area in ancient China.

This made the defense of the Nanyang Basin relatively difficult. Additionally, the Han River, the largest tributary of the Yangtze River, flows through the Nanyang Basin. So, the enemy could simply sail straight down the Han River and reach the capital region. Another problem was that the Jianghan Plain was a vast swamp in ancient times and still frequently suffers from floods nowadays.

Therefore, the capital of the southern dynasties could only be chosen in the middle and lower reaches of the Yangtze River Plain.

As for Guangzhou and Chengdu, the core area of the Pearl River Delta is too small and sparsely populated. It has long been regarded as a poor area and was unable to control the Yangtze River Basin. The Chengdu Plain is slightly larger, but Sichuan is a severely enclosed basin. If the capital were located in Chengdu, the emperor would only be the ruler of Sichuan. Moreover, once Hanzhong was lost, the Sichuan Basin would be in an isolated and helpless situation.

Therefore, for the security of the capital, the southern dynasties had to push their defensive lines north of the Yangtze River. Only in this way could they ensure that the capital had sufficient reaction time and a buffer zone, allowing officials and the people to carry out their normal work. Moreover, the lower reaches of the Yangtze River lacked northern tributaries, while the Huai River had a large number of them. Thus, the northern dynasties could only reach the Huai River swiftly via waterways for transportation. The Huai River defensive line and the Huai River inland water navy could ensure that the area south of the Huai River would not be rapidly breached by the northern dynasties. This was even more the case after the construction of a large number of canals in the south.

Besides, there was a more practical issue.

If the Yangtze River was used as the defensive line, the army in the western plains and the capital would be completely separated. It would be difficult for the army and the supplies and food in the west to be transported to the south because these core plains almost entirely relied on the Yangtze River for communication. And with the Yangtze River as the defensive line, the northern dynasties' inland water navy would attack the transport fleets.

In addition, the Nanyang Basin would be in an isolated and helpless situation, and the army would not be able to quickly support the troops fighting against the Central Plains in the Nanyang Basin. Once the Nanyang Basin was lost, the Jianghan Plain would also be rapidly lost. At this time, the southern dynasty would only have the Poyang Lake Plain and the small plain south of the Yangtze River left. And Sichuan would be completely sealed off and unable to pose any threat to the northern dynasty.

With only two small plains left, it was only a matter of time before the southern dynasty perished. After the northern dynasty completed the integration of these core plains, it could completely use its massive military force to launch a strong attack on Sichuan and crush this single province with its overwhelming strength.

Therefore, for the southern dynasties, defending the Huai River was essential for defending the Yangtze River.
 
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The article mentioned that the Han genes in the Mongols increased over time, and increased significantly during the Yuan Dynasty, rather than being separated long ago like German and Latin and thus sharing genes. It's more like German mixed with Latin before and after the invasion of the Roman Empire.

View attachment 1300442

I cant find the mention, increased "significantly" during the Yuan Dynasty at article.
according to article image mongol and han is too far, that mean "Han genes" increased at Mongols during yuan dynasty is not many

View attachment 1300461
and what is "han gene"?
according to article image, then jiangsu and fujian, shanxi, sichuan is low han gene than mongolian?
or Hubei and Henan has many "dong yi" "bei di" gene?
Yeh, that's why we say "Nation State" (民族国家/国族). But that's a different thing. I agree with part you say that there is a merge. But, saying Xiongnu dissolved after Cao Cao subjugated Liu Bao is still a very bold claim.


Eh, I don't know how to put this but that's a really big "Perhaps". The dissolution of Xiongnu should be at least dated to this:

"咸和四年,九月,石勒將石季龍擊胤,斬之,進屠上邽,盡滅劉氏,坑其黨三千餘人。......坑其王公等及五郡屠各五千余人于洛陽。"
Sorry to interrupt your friendly conversation, but I think we've strayed from the topic. If possible, could we explore issues related to geography and history instead of arguing about genes?
 
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Based on the above analysis, we can identify the reasons for the weakness of the southern dynasties. However, a question arises: where was the main defensive line of the southern dynasties? Most people might immediately think of the Yangtze River. This is not entirely wrong, but also not entirely correct. Because the Yangtze River was the last line of defense. Once the defensive line shrank to the Yangtze River, it meant that the southern dynasty would perish within decades or even just a few years.

This leads us to the fourth question - why was it essential to defend the Huai River in order to defend the Yangtze River?

If you have looked at historical maps of China, you will find that the northern border of the southern dynasties was highly similar to the northern part of the Qinling-Huaihe Line mentioned in the first question. Most people may understand the defensive significance of the Qinling Mountains. But why the Huai River? Compared with mountainous boundaries, rivers are naturally unstable, not to mention a river that mainly flows through plains and is not as wide as the Yangtze River. Why did it become a stable boundary?

Let's take a look at a simple topographic map of southern China.View attachment 1300443
This topographic map is relatively simple. It classifies many hills as plains, but you can still see that the terrain in southern China appears fragmented, lacking the continuous large plains like those in the north. The largest plain here is directly connected to the North China Plain. Maintaining this defensive line requires far more military forces and national financial resources compared to abandoning the line and retreating southward. A relatively better approach would be to use the Yangtze River as the defensive line and completely abandon the defensive line north of the Yangtze River. However, none of the southern dynasties adopted this solution.

Next, I will use some simple hand - drawn sketches to illustrate this issue.
View attachment 1300452
From this artistic depiction of China at night, we can identify the major cities in several southern provinces of China. They are Shanghai, Nanjing, Changsha, Wuhan, Nanchang, Guangzhou, and Chengdu. Apart from Shanghai, all the other places are metropolises that have thrived for thousands of years. They respectively represent several key plains in the southern dynasties, and it was relying on these core plains that the southern dynasties were able to confront the northern dynasties.
View attachment 1300457
This daytime map more clearly reveals the differences in terrain. We can see that after losing the North China Plain, the power centers of the southern dynasties were fragmented into several small regions. Among these small regions, the two largest plains are the middle and lower reaches of the Yangtze River Plain and the Jianghan Plain.

The capitals of the southern dynasties in China were generally located in the middle and lower reaches of the Yangtze River Plain, namely Nanjing or Hangzhou. Why didn't they choose the Jianghan Plain as the capital?

There is a relatively small area called the Nanyang Basin to the north of the Jianghan Plain. Although there are mountains surrounding the Nanyang Basin, there is a huge gap in it. Moreover, it is adjacent to Henan Province, which is in the central part of the North China Plain - the most populous and densely populated area in ancient China.

This made the defense of the Nanyang Basin relatively difficult. Additionally, the Han River, the largest tributary of the Yangtze River, flows through the Nanyang Basin. So, the enemy could simply sail straight down the Han River and reach the capital region. Another problem was that the Jianghan Plain was a vast swamp in ancient times and still frequently suffers from floods nowadays.

Therefore, the capital of the southern dynasties could only be chosen in the middle and lower reaches of the Yangtze River Plain.

As for Guangzhou and Chengdu, the core area of the Pearl River Delta is too small and sparsely populated. It has long been regarded as a poor area and was unable to control the Yangtze River Basin. The Chengdu Plain is slightly larger, but Sichuan is a severely enclosed basin. If the capital were located in Chengdu, the emperor would only be the ruler of Sichuan. Moreover, once Hanzhong was lost, the Sichuan Basin would be in an isolated and helpless situation.

Therefore, for the security of the capital, the southern dynasties had to push their defensive lines north of the Yangtze River. Only in this way could they ensure that the capital had sufficient reaction time and a buffer zone, allowing officials and the people to carry out their normal work. Moreover, the lower reaches of the Yangtze River lacked northern tributaries, while the Huai River had a large number of them. Thus, the northern dynasties could only reach the Huai River swiftly via waterways for transportation. The Huai River defensive line and the Huai River inland water navy could ensure that the area south of the Huai River would not be rapidly breached by the northern dynasties. This was even more the case after the construction of a large number of canals in the south.

Besides, there was a more practical issue.

If the Yangtze River was used as the defensive line, the army in the western plains and the capital would be completely separated. It would be difficult for the army and the supplies and food in the west to be transported to the south because these core plains almost entirely relied on the Yangtze River for communication. And with the Yangtze River as the defensive line, the northern dynasties' inland water navy would attack the transport fleets.

In addition, the Nanyang Basin would be in an isolated and helpless situation, and the army would not be able to quickly support the troops fighting against the Central Plains in the Nanyang Basin. Once the Nanyang Basin was lost, the Jianghan Plain would also be rapidly lost. At this time, the southern dynasty would only have the Poyang Lake Plain and the small plain south of the Yangtze River left. And Sichuan would be completely sealed off and unable to pose any threat to the northern dynasty.

With only two small plains left, it was only a matter of time before the southern dynasty perished. After the northern dynasty completed the integration of these core plains, it could completely use its massive military force to launch a strong attack on Sichuan and crush this single province with its overwhelming strength.

Therefore, for the southern dynasties, defending the Huai River was essential for defending the Yangtze River.
The read was very interesting thanks, lines up with stuff I've read before on why China could always reunify - just in far greater detail. And I suppose you could argue that China rn is in a form of North/South divide, just with straights acting as the last line rather than the rivers.


From a gameplay perspective do you think it should be possible to prolong China into a drawn out warring states period/north-south split or do you think that during the games period that was out of the question.

From my admittedly outside view I think I would prefer China to always reunify as to provide a large market and counterweight
 
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