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I suggest the renaming of C'Axud (Ցախուտ) to P'arts'rap'ert' (Բարձրաբերդ) (dunno if you want to represent aspirations or not with the transliteration; I went with "yes" while also assuming that you're going for more of a Western Armenian phonetic representation given that otherwise it should be C'axut). The former was a river that passed through the area; the latter is the fortress that guarded it. Or you could go with Agner, the name of the monastery and nearby village also guarded by the fortress.

Yes, finding anything on those locations was a nightmare.
 
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Also I suppose while staring at the map some more, Hasankeyf should not go by that name no matter who rules it in this era. Under its current rulers the name should be Kurdish as Heskîf, and under a Turkish ruler it should be some flavor of حصن كيفا forced into the Turkish script (Hisn Kayfa, Hisn Kaifa, etc.) rather than the "Hasankeyf" of modern (Atatürk) form.

So it's not that Hasankeyf is the modern name for the place, but rather that it's the modern spelling of the name of the place which, prior, was spelled in all sorts of haphazard ways to directly adopt the Arabic name into Turkish. Using the modern form isn't the worst, but it'd be nice to see it be represented as the awkward "Arabic word shoved into Turkish" that it was. Also of course the fact that the current ruling dynasty is Kurdish should change the spelling as well.
 
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Reposted due to moderate changes:

I don't know if there is a way to find landless Army-Based-Countries on the map, but Anatolia had some of them, especially from the Mongols, with enough power to be independent, or act in a very independent manner, often switching sides and acting as kingmakers for their own gain, such as:
  • Hasan Kucek of the Chobanids is supposedly residing in Karahisar, prior to his rebellion and intervention in the Ilkhanate succession wars in 1338, after which he marched through the hostile Eretnids to Alataq near Van, where he defeated the Jalayirids in July 1338 and captured the imperial heartland of the Ilkhanate; Azerbaijan and Tabriz
    • The only Karahisar I know is in Western Anatolia, which is usually not considered that deep in the Mongol sphere at this time. But apparently there were quite a few places called "Karahisar" in Anatolia
  • Makeshift Mongol "tribes" similiar to the Jauni Kurban (Ja'uni Qurban) in Khorasan. They were formed out of various unrelated Mongol military detachments. Some of the named ones are:
    • The Samagar, named after Samagar noyan. They are said to have been very powerful, with great effect on the later Eretnid power struggles
    • The Jaygazan
    • The Jawunqar
    • There are also mentions of the Babuq clan ruling over Nigde, who took part in the power struggles between the Karamanids and Eretnids
    • Another area mentioned to have been ruled by a Mongol emir is of Beysehir and Ilgin
Below is a map of the areas they are said to have roamed/inhabited:

NOTE: Only the Babuq clan at Nigde, and the unnamed Mongol Emir at Beysehir and Ilgin were "settled". The Samagar, Jaygazan and Jawunqar were very much roaming nomads

View attachment 1189468
View attachment 1189603

Interestingly, Timur displaced this group of Mongols, just like he did for the Jauni Kurban in Khorasan

Sources used:
  1. "Mongol Aristocrats and Beyliks in Anatolia. A study of Astarabadi's Bazm va Razm" (2011)
  2. "Hülâgû Han’dan Emîr Timur’a Anadolu Tatarları" (2022)




Coming back to this post after the tinto talk on Mercenaries. The best way to depict the Samagar, Jayqazan and Jawunqar would be as mongol mercenary companies, drawing manpower from the mongolian pops in Anatolia.


 
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I checked some locations on the map of Tinto Talks #52 and here is the changes I spotted:

export202503081916411267.png

Red overlay: Locations I checked

Circles
Red: Country borders change
Pink: Location border change
Yellow: Possible applied changes which is not exact due low resolution.

1. Teke - Hamidids / Istanoz location border change: Probably "Bucak" location created which is nice but the name of that location should be "Ağlasun" according to date.

2: Payas: Mamluks to Cilicia

3. Kapan: Dulkadirids to Cilicia

4. Malatya: Dulkadirids to Eretnids

5. Siverek: Sutayids to Döger

6. Viranşehir: Artuqids to Döger

7. Cizre: Artuqids to a new country

8. Rize, Khupati from Trebizond; Khikheni, Artanuji, Parkhali, Panaskerti, Oltu from Georgia and İspir from Eretnids to Samtskhe

9. Tortum location might stay in Georgia or transfered to new Georgian vassal "Tao" country.

10. Panaskerti location's borders seems changed. Eastern part probably merged with Oltu location.

11. Tercan and Erzurum locations might been transfered to Sutayids from Eretnids.

GdbIWSE.jpeg

LUvzJ6O.png


You can overlay and see the differences.
 
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I checked some locations on the map of Tinto Talks #52 and here is the changes I spotted:

View attachment 1263837
Red overlay: Locations I checked

Circles
Red: Country borders change
Pink: Location border change
Yellow: Possible applied changes which is not exact due low resolution.

1. Teke - Hamidids / Istanoz location border change: Probably "Bucak" location created which is nice but the name of that location should be "Ağlasun" according to date.

2: Payas: Mamluks to Cilicia

3. Kapan: Dulkadirids to Cilicia

4. Malatya: Dulkadirids to Eretnids

5. Siverek: Sutayids to Döger

6. Viranşehir: Artuqids to Döger

7. Cizre: Artuqids to a new country

8. Rize, Khupati from Trebizond; Khikheni, Artanuji, Parkhali, Panaskerti, Oltu from Georgia and İspir from Eretnids to Samtskhe

9. Tortum location might stay in Georgia or transfered to new Georgian vassal "Tao" country.

10. Panaskerti location's borders seems changed. Eastern part probably merged with Oltu location.

11. Tercan and Erzurum locations might been transfered to Sutayids from Eretnids.

GdbIWSE.jpeg

LUvzJ6O.png


You can overlay and see the differences.

IMG_9302.jpeg


Bucak did not get added, That part of Istanoz is given to Burdur, as we can see in the map they forgot to add new locations their earthquake modifiers, so since that part is part of earthquake zone, there is no new location there, instead there is a new location west of Burdur, and Bartın location is splitted, which both are appreciated , they were big blobs,
all other new locations are the ones that were already added in tinto maps feedback post
 
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View attachment 1263869

Bucak did not get added, That part of Istanoz is given to Burdur, as we can see in the map they forgot to add new locations their earthquake modifiers, so since that part is part of earthquake zone, there is no new location there, instead there is a new location west of Burdur, and Bartın location is splitted, which both are appreciated , they were big blobs,
all other new locations are the ones that were already added in tinto maps feedback post
The location east of Bartin would fit with Eflani, which I suggested in the original thread, would be very happy to see it included! Not sure what the west of Burdur could be, Salda or Yesilova? Acipayam is probably too far to the west
Screenshot_20250310_213303_Samsung Internet.png
 
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View attachment 1263869

Bucak did not get added, That part of Istanoz is given to Burdur, as we can see in the map they forgot to add new locations their earthquake modifiers, so since that part is part of earthquake zone, there is no new location there, instead there is a new location west of Burdur, and Bartın location is splitted, which both are appreciated , they were big blobs,
all other new locations are the ones that were already added in tinto maps feedback post
That can be right, I only overlayed those two maps and spotted differences of country borders which was my main interest.
 
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There is a high probability that in Erzincan/Yerznka there was an Armenian state that was a vassal of the Mongols.
Information sources are in Armenian.

Page 79 of the pdf file

Erzincan, with a population of 100,000, was a reliable stronghold for the Mongols on the eastern border of the Sultanate of Iconium. The existence of Armenian rule in that zone is in itself a remarkable phenomenon, since it was a unique "island" between the main centers of national political power - North-Eastern Armenia and the Kingdom of Cilicia. It is also noticeable that before the murder of Ter-Sargis and his son Hovhannes in 1276, cultural life in Erzincan had flourished, and the Armenian rulers of the city stood out not only as commissioners of manuscripts, patrons of art and intellectual pursuits, but also Hovhannes himself came up with independent works. Ter-Sargis's energetic activity inevitably aroused the opposition of the regions of the Sultanate of Iconium with anti-Mongol sentiments. The analysis of the events that unfolded in the Near East and in Asia Minor in particular in 1276 serves as a basis for such an assertion. Although the document written in the province of Yekeghyats in 1272 The manuscript notes that “in the time of this (Ter-Sargis and Prince Hovhannes – H. M.) there was peace from the Christians”, it is no secret that this claim is an exaggeration and the prospects of the Armenian government of Erzincan depended on the outcome of the struggle between the government and the Sultanate of Egypt. The next clash of the opponents took place in 1276. The Sultan of Egypt, Rukn ad-Din Baybars Fundukhtar, inflicted a heavy defeat on the Mongol border guard unit in June and, moving into the depths of Asia Minor, reached Caesarea. But Ter-Sargis’s situation in Erzincan had deteriorated significantly even before Fundukhtar’s campaign. The murder of Ter-Sargis and his son Hovhannes took place in February-March 1276, that is, before the appearance of the Mamluk army in Asia Minor. The murder of the Armenian rulers of Erzincan was probably provoked by the same forces that had prompted the Sultan of Mamluk to launch military operations against the Mongols. Persecution of Christians, and Armenians in particular, intensified during the short reign of the Mamluks.

Page 80 of the pdf file

During the 13th century. As Rashid ad-Din testifies, “Fundukhtar arrived in Caesarea and spent a week there. He had a sermon read and minted money in his name... Fundukhtar executed some Christian Armenians and returned.” Thus, the activities of Ter-Sargis and Prince Hovhannes were tragically interrupted, but since the Mongols resolutely wanted to continue their previous policy in Asia Minor, the spiritual and secular leadership of the Armenians of Erzincan was assumed by Ter-Sargis’ grandchildren, restoring similar relations with A-bagha Ilkhan (1265-1282). In the second half of the 13th century, it is also possible to explain the establishment of a similar authority in Artaz, similar to the Erzincan principality. Approximately in the 13th century. 70-80s Here settled Mr. Manvel, whose sons Mr. Zakaria Tsortzoretsi and Mr. Petros had concentrated the spiritual and secular power of the Artaz province in their hands. It is noteworthy that this family also descended from the avatatiran dynasty and had ancient kinship ties with the Orbelyans of Syunik. The similarity of the Erzincan and Artaz principalities is also evident in terms of the fruitful spiritual and cultural achievements of their rulers. In the second half of the 14th century - the beginning of the 14th century, remarkable facts of the revival of Armenian political power are found even in the south-eastern and southern provinces of Armenia. Thus, in the regions between Agn and Chmshgadzag, where there was a large Armenian-Chalcedonian population, representatives of the Khavras dynasty ruled. The report of Abu-l-Faraj, according to which until 1290 (but from what year onwards it remains unknown) there was an Armenian ruler in the city of Mush, Ish Khum, is worthy of serious and detailed attention. The certain strengthening of the political power of the Armenian ethnic element was explained, first of all, by the growth of the military power of the Armenians within the framework of Mongol rule. The most prominent position in the environment of the conquerors belonged to the military-nomadic council, therefore the only way to raise the elite of the subject peoples was successful military service. The Armenian princes first participated in the Mongol campaigns


Page 6-7 of the pdf file
Here, the mention of the Armenian prince Khutlushan is very interesting not only in the sense that it confirms the fact of the existence of the Armenian principality in Erzincan in the fourth quarter of the 14th century, but also brings some clarity to the national religious affiliation and rights of a number of princes mentioned later on one occasion or another. The question is that the Armenian princes of Erzincan are usually called lords or amirs. And the dual meaning of these titles has created such a misunderstanding that the aforementioned lords and amirs are simply noblemen without political power. On the other hand, many of the Armenian princes, as is known, starting from the 13th century, often bear foreign names, such as Khutlushah, Suleiman, Pakhtamur, Hasan-Jalal, etc. And here is a very interesting memoir written in Erzincan, which lists a number of Armenian nobles, including the aforementioned Khutlushak, in the shortened form of that name Khutlu, who has already passed away. "With the grace of the Lord I began and with mercy I completed it... ... Grigoris... in the Armenian calendar PLb (1986), June [10], at the request of the good and faithful servant of God T. Satin, son of the cross of Aaron, and grandson of Lord Sarkis through the line of Maren, who grew up with hope and with many longings and desires asked for this for the enlightenment of his soul and for the consolation of the hearing Believers.

Again I beg you all to be in the Lord, having received this sacred book, parents and children, parents and you be in the Lord... But let not the singing of psalms, the voices of worshipers, the fragrance of incense be lacking from its doors (from the Holy Catholic Church of Erzincan. P.) And let its ministers and worshipers, the first and the last, remain holy in the will of God and God-loving Lord. Our sacred book Suleiman will grant this holy book and us long days, having overcome all trials... now the good and the believing)... sacred book Khutlu who has been converted to Christ, may God illuminate his soul and grant him a heavenly (kingdom worthy of all) : 19, There is no doubt that the amir Khutlu mentioned here is the same Armenian prince Khutlushah. who was probably one of the direct descendants of the Armenian princely and archbishopric of Erzincan. This is also evident from the fact that one of his relatives, Tachatin, also came from the lineage of Ter Sargis. As for the godly gentleman Sulayman, then. there is no reason to doubt that he was the son of Khutlushah. In the same period, another manuscript written in Erzincan also mentions a group of Armenian princes, who again descend from the same lineage. The writer Hovhannes wishes to remember the Archbishop of Erzinka, Ter Grigor, who was the son of Mr. Paktamur, as well as Ter Grigor's son Mr. Hovhannes and the latter's son Mr. Paktamur, along with their relatives20. At first glance, the names of various Armenian princes appearing in the two chronicles may create the above-mentioned false impression that they are all nobles devoid of political power. However, the fact that they 18 Kyurtyan believes that this Khutlushah is one of the ancestors of Hovhannes Vorotnetsi, but there is no basis for asserting this, since the aforementioned Khutlushah is considered the prince of Erzinka or Daranaghik (these two provinces have often been merged or identified) and, moreover, this is not the only information about Khutlushah. Ibid., p. 201. 19 Council of Ministers of the Armenian SSR Mesrop Mashtots Scientific Research Institute of Ancient Manuscripts, Matenadaran (hereinafter referred to as Matenadaran), 34,557 manuscripts, e 227-2250. See also L. Khachikyan, 14th-century memoirs, pp. 560-561. The end of this memoir is not given here because it is illegible. We managed, with difficulty, to restore the original manuscript almost completely. 20 Matenadaran, manuscript. N 1980, p. 40.

They are descended from the same princely family of Erzincan, whose princely rights and noble title were recognized by the princes and probably the emperors of Byzantium, which makes it clear that they all have the right to appear with noble titles. * dance. Very valuable information about the Armenian government in Erzincan and the Armenian prince endowed with great power and universally recognized is provided by the famous traveler of the beginning of the 4th century, the ambassador of the Spanish king Clavijo, whose information, however, has received due attention in our historiography due to a great misunderstanding. It all started with the information provided by Tovma Metsopetsi. Listing the interests of Lenk Temu in 1985 in various provinces of Armenia. Metsopetsi is in Hayan. “And he came again to the world from the east and went to the city of Erzinca with love, and the great Catholic Saint Sarkis, in the foundation of the kakyats and other churches, all the ruins, with the evil slander of the Takhratan Lord and all the other Tachks of the city.”21 Based on the above, Gh. Alishan also concludes that “the friendship of the Tatars did not last very long, when they themselves began to weaken, and the Turkish tribes grew stronger, who in the 14th century took possession of this city and its surroundings. Among them was Tamerdan or Takhradan, who surrendered to Timur Lenk (1893), and was a leader and accomplice in his destruction. One of whose works was the magnificent St. "The destruction of the Saviour's Catholic Church, along with other churches."22 But, as we have seen, the Armenian prince Khutlushah and his heirs appeared at a time when Tatar power was weakening and the country was in anarchy. Therefore, it is not correct to say that Erzincan and the Yekeghets province generally passed into the hands of the Turks in the 14th century.

However, what interests us most now are the issues related to the prince of Erzinka or the Takhrada of Mr. Taharten (Klavikho, who was in Erzinka only a few years after the Yekeghyats province fell under the rule of Temur, using the accounts of eyewitnesses, describes in quite detail the events of the recent past of Erzinka and the events of his region. He speaks in particular about the personality and activities of the prince of Erzinka Taharten, and the information he provides contradicts both the personality of Taharten and his policy. According to Klavikho, “Armenians built Arzinca”, where in the region he saw there lived “many official persons and prosperous merchants. The majority of the inhabitants were Armenians and Greeks. The lord of Erzinka. Before it fell under the rule of Temur, there was “a great nobleman named Taharten”, who, in addition to Erzinka He also ruled a large area of the surrounding lands, including "Kamak", probably the Kamakhnarik fortress. 3 That Taharten was indeed a powerful ruler is confirmed by the fact that he boldly opposed the Turkish Sultan Bayezid's demand to hand over the impregnable fortress of Kamakh. 24 It also becomes clear from Klavikho's report that Taharten not only did not cause the destruction of the churches of Erzinca, but, on the contrary, being forced to accept Temur's supremacy in order to secure the borders of his power from the Turkish attack, he continued to patronize the Armenian population of the city and the surrounding area and saved it from Temur's atrocities. This circumstance greatly irritated the Turks of Erzinca, who complained to Temur against Taharten. The Turks accused Taharten of the fact that the Christians in Erzinca were in a privileged position in all respects, that their ecclesiastical are more luxurious and spacious than Turkish mosques, etc.

Clavijo also reports that Taharten explained his benevolence towards the Armenians by the fact that the main productive element of the city was the Christians and they received the main income from them. However, a careful examination of the facts reported by Clavijo leads to the conviction that in the person of Taharten we are dealing not with an intelligent Turkish ruler who patronized the Christians, but with a prince who was a native of Erzincan, probably a Christian or only superficially Muslim.26 First, Clavijo himself calls Taharten an Armenian prince, he reports that Sultan Balaghat, wanting to take revenge on Temur and Taharten for the capture and destruction of Svagh. "moved and took this city of Arzinjan from the Armenian prince Taharten 27. Let us accept, however, that Clavijo's calling Taharten an Armenian prince is a misunderstanding, which arose in the Armenian translation of his orthography. But Clavijo not only calls Taharten an Armenian prince, but also reports that his wife was the daughter of the Greek emperor of Trebizond. Of course, a Muslim Turk or Tatar prince could also have been the son-in-law of the emperor of Trebizond, but the point is that this distinguished and powerful prince had only one wife. Among other things, Clavijo alludes to this circumstance in several passages. Thus, he reports that during the capture of Erzincan, Bayaghet takes Taharten's wife prisoner, but honorably releases her. Something that, in our opinion, should be attributed not so much to Bayezid's chivalrous attitude as to his diplomatic skill. For understandable reasons, he avoided turning the Emperor of Trebizond against him at a time when he had a powerful enemy like Temur against him, the same circumstance is also confirmed by the fact that Taharten's sister's son, Shah Ali, asks Temur to recognize him as Taharten's heir, since Taharten had no children from his wife and bequeathed power to an illegitimate child. As we can see, here too the fact that Taharten had one wife is alluded to. It is also noteworthy that Clavijo, speaking of the prince of Erzin-ka he saw, who was the illegitimate child of Taharten, never calls him a Turk, despite the fact that a number of nobles who were with the latter were Turks:


 
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It's quite likely, given what I read, that it was less of an outright Armenian state and more of the Armenian population not being significantly influenced by whatever state claimed sovereignty over them (i.e. low control).

It's one of those things that these games (at least, before having a population system) seriously struggled to capture. I wouldn't necessarily want to represent this with a state since that grossly overstates their position. Rather, the better choice would be (at least, what I intend on doing) utilizing building-based countries to represent the actual ecclesiastical structure of the various Christian churches that persist even after their conquest by non-Christian (or oppositional Christian) states.

Especially relevant given that Armenian religious identity in 1337 was extremely convoluted, with their faith split three ways: between those who resent the Latins as much as the Greeks and wish to keep their faith unadulterated, from those who fear has led to a compromise in faith as they comply with the broad demands of the Catholic church to bend (but not break!) the tenants of their faith into something more acceptable by their Latin peers, and those who think that no amount of bending of their faith truly fits and have embraced the Roman rite.
 
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Sorry about to late reply. I was away from the forum for a long time so I didn't see these maps.

The name Bekarlar is out of place on this map. It is a new name less than a hundred years old.
At 16th century Liva of Aksaray had a nahiye named Bekir. I don't know if this nahiye of Bekir was the same Bekarlar/Nenizi but it would be more era appropriate name.
I think Ihlara (or Chliara in Greek) would be a better name for that location between Aksaray, Niğde and Nevşehir.
 
I would like to provide feedback on Ankara and surrounding locations (having lived there for many years).

Firstly, the goods seemed quite off to me. Spices for Ankara in particular is quite weird, perhaps this is done to give Ankara a unique produce? Ankara was known for Angora wool, that is wool (or hair) from Angora goats. There is also the Angora rabbit as well. Perhaps you did not want to go with wool since urban locations get a debuff for agricultural products. I feel like a unique modifier similiar to Sweden's copper mine would have made it valuable despite the debuff, and add flavour as well.

Also, Kalecik is known for its wine (it was known for a specific kind of grape grown in the region, Kalecik Karasi, which is used for making wine), so surprised it does not have wine. I feel like some of the goods in the province are correct, but assigned to wrong locations.

Here is what I think makes more sense:

Ankara: wool
Cubuk: legumes
Kizilca (Kizilcahamam): alum
Beypazari: silver, or alternatively legumes (?) to represent carrots
Haymana: wheat
Polatli: stone
Kalecik: wine

Also, I would have preferred Ankara and Cubuk to be continental since this is kind of the region where the transition into cold arid climate happens and so they exhibit the features of both, but cold arid is true as well.
 
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Also makes sense to break the Anatolian side of Istanbul. The European side is three locations, while the Anatolian side is only one (Chalcedon/Kadıköy). My proposal would be:
Üsküdar: Mediterranean, Woods, Hills, Medicaments
Kadıköy: Mediterranean, Grasslands, Flatlands, Fish
Şile: Subtropical, Forest, Hills, Lumber
 
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Screenshot_2025-05-29-16-03-19-33_f9ee0578fe1cc94de7482bd41accb329.jpg

From today's video, around minute 3: there's 61% Orthodox and 48% Turkish culture.

At a total population of 1.5 million, that means there's at least 200k orthodox Turks in this nation, WAY more than I was expecting...

Is that sourced, or part of the "work in progress"?
 
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View attachment 1308954
From today's video, around minute 3: there's 61% Orthodox and 48% Turkish culture.

At a total population of 1.5 million, that means there's at least 200k orthodox Turks in this nation, WAY more than I was expecting...

Is that sourced, or part of the "work in progress"?
I think it during game they culture converted greeks because in population part it says 1411 but it shows an important design problem. I think if two ethnicities share different religions in general ethnicity change should come with religion change because they were extremely connected in that part of history
 
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I think it during game they culture converted greeks because in population part it says 1411 but it shows an important design problem. I think if two ethnicities share different religions in general ethnicity change should come with religion change because they were extremely connected in that part of history
I wrote like this but there are counter examples like bosnians and albanians but maybe there can be some adjustment for accurate portrayal .I don't know how
 
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