Tinto Flavour #22 - 27th of May 2025

[Cigan1330]

Exactly. The whole point of a historical sandbox is dynamism with plausible foundations. If the Balkans - arguably one of the most volatile regions in European history - ends up more static than Scandinavia, somethings off. Even the Serbian players should understand this.

This isnt about forcing Serbia to collapse for the memes. Its about designing a regional narrative because of actual historical factors like the vacuum left by Dushan death. If the collapse is reduced to “+10 unrest,” then the Ottomans have nothing to exploit. The Venetians have no incentives to intervene. Albania, Bosnia, and Montenegro never get a chance to take shape.

My question to @Pavía is Why should Western Europe get the Hundred Years’ War, the War of the Roses, Burgundy events, and Iberian unions - but the Balkans get silence?

Give Serbia the chance to hold itself together -absolutely- but make it a challenge, just like the Ottomans have to beat the Timurids or Byzantium has to survive its final days. Make the region alive, not a quiet corner where nothing ever happens. If anything, the real Balkan experience was chaotic, treacherous, and filled with ambition. That’s not a flaw that’s a feature.

First signs of weakening of the Serbian Empire were primarily from external attacks, there should be a event about Nicephorus III Orisinis invasion of Thessaly and Epirus (if Serbia took over those territories by Dusans death), Hungary should be more hostile towards Serbia (Hungary invaded Serbia in 1359).
Feudal fragmentation happened in 1360s, so it could get seperate event if stability goes too low that releces several vassal states (Vojinovici,Dejanovici,Balsici ets) and Serbia in that shape could either restore itself with some noble succeding Uros or it could collapse like it did historicaly.

 

[Inzano]

I dont know how far we can take this cause Uros was already born at the game start so even if the game itself gives Stefan a new son it would still lead to Uros leading the throne. Maybe if EU5 allows you to train your kids to be better at certain things like in Crusader Kings but even there your child can be a dissapointment no matter how much you try. I would say tying it to the skill of the successor himself would be too puishing to both the AI and playing and will lead to strange situations like intentionally getting Uros killed so his son with better stats can take over in 15 years and end it. I dont think the AI would ever manage to stop the collapse that way when it really should achieve to stop the crisis in roughly 10-15% of games.

Uroš can die before he can become an heir, and Dušan can have more children, where does it say that Uroš will be his only child (unless Dušan became infertile)?

 

[Trepanator]

Aren't we forgetting that the disasters work as situations but inside one country right? So who knows maybe there will be a system implemented (events, situation* etc.), something like Delhi maybe but less violent? Hopefully that's what the disaster will be after the formation of an empire and not just flat modifiers.

They will definitely change how it works further down the line i think, now it works like a normal disaster which is a shame, but i think we will see it breaking into tags with a dlc, at least thats what i got from all of this. I'd love to play with Branković tag if we ever get it, would be cool.

 

[Pls fix HRE]

Uroš can die before he can become an heir, and Dušan can have more children, where does it say that Uroš will be his only child (unless Dušan became infertile)#

Yes that is possible but considering Usan had 3 children at most of wich ones existence is disputed by modern historians, I doubt he will pump out a entire village of children like some peasent in Cacak would.

 

[Sizvahstar]

No one has pointed the spelling error out yet.

The Advance "Georgian Golden Age" has a spelling error "relieve" -> "relive"
Surely the point is to "relive this period" rather than "relieve them from the siege"

Please forward this to the team, @Pavía and pardon the ping.

 

[Caracus]

Man I love these informative info texts

 

[Znikii]

Status	Slovenian	Serbian
Nobles	Plemiči/Plemstvo	Vlastelini/Vlastela
Clerics	Kleriki/Klerištvo	Svešteniki/Sveštenstvo
Burghers	Meščani/Meščanstvo	Građani/Građanstvo
Laborers	Obrtniki/Cehovstvo	Zanatlije/Zanatlijstvo
Soldiers	Vojaki/Vojska	Vojnici/Vojska
Peasants	Kmetje/Kmetstvo	Kmetovi/Kmetstvo
Tribesmen	Plemena	Plemena
Slaves	Sužni/Suženstvo	Robovi/Roblje

Localizing something like this would be cool.

Localisations/translations for Peasants and Labourers are not the best.

Peasants should be localised in Podložniki. That is the direct translation, and more importantly, it retains the semantic meaning of a social class in a feudal society. Kmetje is, on the other hand, a profession and not a (feudal) social class, and it gets translated into a Farmers.
Laborerers are meant to be mostly (hard) manual workers, of similar socio-economic position as Peasants. Obrtniki/Cehovstvo is better translated into craftsman, artisans, the guilds,... which all fall more under the Burghers. I would use Delovci [labourers, manual workers] / Svobodnjaki [freemen] for Laborers. Out of the two option I would prefer to use Svobodnjaki [freemen] for the reseon in carries the proper connotations of their legal and social status at the time (aka of common birth, not bound to land and servitutue to feudal lord under the feudal contract as peasants are, but also not a citizen of a city, thus not enjoying the protection of citizenship against the feudal whims as burghers are)....

 

[Inzano]

Localisations/translations for Peasants and Labourers are not the best.

Peasants should be localised in Podložniki. That is the direct translation, and more importantly, it retains the semantic meaning of a social class in a feudal society. Kmetje is, on the other hand, a profession and not a (feudal) social class, and it gets translated into a Farmers.
Laborerers are meant to be mostly (hard) manual workers, of similar socio-economic position as Peasants. Obrtniki/Cehovstvo is better translated into craftsman, artisans, the guilds,... which all fall more under the Burghers. I would use Delovci [labourers, manual workers] / Svobodnjaki [freemen] for Laborers. Out of the two option I would prefer to use Svobodnjaki [freemen] for the reseon in carries the proper connotations of their legal and social status at the time (aka of common birth, not bound to land and servitutue to feudal lord under the feudal contract as peasants are, but also not a citizen of a city, thus not enjoying the protection of citizenship against the feudal whims as burghers are)....

Then my updated proposal is this (I opted for "Delavci/Delovstvo" or in english Workers/Labor, because "Svobodnjaki" or in english freemen are more Kosez in the Slovene case, because if they were freemen they could also own land with which they could dispose as they wished and were answerable only to the feudal lord, while the labor was more often than not in "rent" and subordinate to craftsmen, despite the fact that they could change jobs/locations):

Status	Slovenian	Serbian
Nobles	Plemiči/Plemstvo	Vlastelini/Vlastela
Clerics	Kleriki/Klerištvo	Svešteniki/Sveštenstvo
Burghers	Meščani/Meščanstvo	Građani/Građanstvo
Laborers	Delavci/Delavstvo	Radnici/Snaga
Soldiers	Vojaki/Vojska	Vojnici/Vojska
Peasants	Podložniki/Podložništvo	Pretplatnici/Pretplatništvo
Tribesmen	Plemena	Plemena
Slaves	Sužni/Suženstvo	Robovi/Roblje

 

[GenericUsername1444]

I think it would be cool if there was an event giving Georgia claims on Shirvan and Arran (around 5 years after game start, in 1342), as he did in fact invade them by the later part of his reign. I don't think this would be too overpowered, as Serbia has a similar event with Byzantine Macedonia.

1st choice, historical:

>Kingdom of Georgia gains a claim on the province of Baku and Arran
>Kingdom of Georgia gains 5 antagonism centred on Tbilisi
>Lose 50 opinion with Shirvan and <get:root shirvanoverlord>

2nd choice:

>Gain 50 opinion with Shirvan and 25 opinion with <get:root shirvanoverlord>
>Gain 1 diplomatic reputation for 5 years
>Lose 5 antagonism centred on Tbilisi

 

[Fehervari]

AFAIK "hussar" stems from the Hungarian word "húsz" (meaning twenty). The term's origin can be traced back to Sigismund's Militia portalis.

 

[ArVass]

@Pavía, I have two questions regarding Serbia:
1. does the Serbian disaster spawn any of the historical remnant states of Serbia? Otherwise it appears way too weak; Serbia's collapse happened in none of the announcement gameplay videos
2. Are there Hajduk or Hajdú regiments? They would be a fitting choice for the ages of Reformation and Absolutism, especially the Hungarian Hajdús

 

[BokicaTheEpic]

Status	Serbian
Nobles	Vlastela
Clergy	Klir (Sveštenstvo)
Burghers	Građanstvo
Laborers	Radnici
Soldiers	Vojnici
Peasants	Sebri
Tribesmen/Tribes	Saplemenik*/Plemena
Slaves	Otroci (Robovi/Roblje)

Took insipration from Inzano, my take on the localization of classes
I'd keep Sebri as it was mentioned in Dušan's Code
As for Slaves, the name Otroci is disputed so maybe Robovi is the best way to go; more regarding that https://www.bogoslovski.ues.rs.ba/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Leksikon-Srpskog-Srednjeg-Veka.pdf on page 663 last paragraph
As for the other stuff I explained myself in previous comments

 

[Trepanator]

AFAIK "hussar" stems from the Hungarian word "húsz" (meaning twenty). The term's origin can be traced back to Sigismund's Militia portalis.

They went with Webster's Dictionary/Wikipedia.

 

[Trepanator]

@Pavía, I have two questions regarding Serbia:
1. does the Serbian disaster spawn any of the historical remnant states of Serbia? Otherwise it appears way too weak; Serbia's collapse happened in none of the announcement gameplay videos
2. Are there Hajduk or Hajdú regiments? They would be a fitting choice for the ages of Reformation and Absolutism, especially the Hungarian Hajdús

The way that unit reads it's obvious that every balkan nation has them

 

[Inzano]

Status	Serbian
Nobles	Vlastela
Clergy	Klir (Sveštenstvo)
Burghers	Građanstvo
Laborers	Radnici
Soldiers	Vojnici
Peasants	Sebri
Tribesmen/Tribes	Saplemenik*/Plemena
Slaves	Otroci (Robovi/Roblje)

Took insipration from Inzano, my take on the localization of classes
I'd keep Sebri as it was mentioned in Dušan's Code
As for Slaves, the name Otroci is disputed so maybe Robovi is the best way to go; more regarding that https://www.bogoslovski.ues.rs.ba/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Leksikon-Srpskog-Srednjeg-Veka.pdf on page 663 last paragraph
As for the other stuff I explained myself in previous comments

In Slovenian otroci mean children xD

 

[BokicaTheEpic]

In Slovenian otroci mean children xD

yeah I know that's why it's kinda disputed, it means childern in (medieval) Serbian too ig or it may mean somebody dependent, better explaination here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otroci

 

[Trepanator]

yeah I know that's why it's kinda disputed, it means childern in (medieval) Serbian too ig or it may mean somebody dependent, better explaination here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otroci

I mean medieval children were free child labour(they still are, if you play your cards right)! Make sense the word was(disputedly) used for slaves also

 

[ArVass]

The way that unit reads it's obvious that every balkan nation has them

The way the advance is written does imply that Hungarian Hajdú have a different implementation, but doesn't really how, and it also makes it very likely that the Balkan Hajduks do not have a regiment

 

[EneaBako]

@Pavía Pavía, this is more than just a missed opportunity this part of the map feels dead. It’s already 1420 and the Balkans have seen zero movement.

Serbia is still a giant red blob, completely untouched, despite the fact that historically by this time:

The Serbian Empire had already shattered.
Local lords like the Balšić in Zeta, Branković in Kosovo, and the Dukagjini in the north had carved out their spheres.

Ottoman pressure was already reshaping the region, with vassalization, wars, and constant shifting allegiances.

Yet here? Nothing. No internal collapse, no disasters, no vassal infighting, no Ottomans creeping in. It’s just static. This makes the Balkans feel lifeless, especially compared to the much more dynamic mechanics in Western Europe or even Anatolia.

If there’s supposed to be a ‘Serbian Disaster’-where is it? What does it do? If it doesn’t spawn the fragmented remnants of Dušan’s empire, then what’s the point?

 

[Vanbor]

@Pavía Pavía, this is more than just a missed opportunity this part of the map feels dead. It’s already 1420 and the Balkans have seen zero movement.
View attachment 1309578

Serbia is still a giant red blob, completely untouched, despite the fact that historically by this time:

The Serbian Empire had already shattered.
Local lords like the Balšić in Zeta, Branković in Kosovo, and the Dukagjini in the north had carved out their spheres.

Ottoman pressure was already reshaping the region, with vassalization, wars, and constant shifting allegiances.

Yet here? Nothing. No internal collapse, no disasters, no vassal infighting, no Ottomans creeping in. It’s just static. This makes the Balkans feel lifeless, especially compared to the much more dynamic mechanics in Western Europe or even Anatolia.

If there’s supposed to be a ‘Serbian Disaster’-where is it? What does it do? If it doesn’t spawn the fragmented remnants of Dušan’s empire, then what’s the point?

Probably because that's not the Serbian Empire. That's the Serbian Kingdom. It's kinda obvious from the picture that the empire never formed. So no empire no overextension no great fall. Unless you think the Serbian Kingdom should also disintegrate once Dusan dies. Now why didnt it form in the first place is the better question. Could be an older build so they haven't tweaked it completely. Could be the AI deciding not to expend or failling to do it in time. The claims only last 4 years. We don't know.