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Hello, and welcome one more week to another Tinto Maps Feedback post! Today, we will be reviewing the region of the Steppes, before tomorrow's look at the Golden Horde and Horde-related content in Tinto Flavour. Let's start with the list of changes, as usual:

ADDITIONS

Added the following:
  • Locations (13)
    • Adalaga
    • Chuhuiv
    • Hovtva
    • Kolomak
    • Lutava
    • Opishnya
    • Perekop
    • Solkhat
    • Ternivka
    • Vilshana
    • Yahotyn
    • Yaroslavka
    • Zmiiv
  • Provinces
    • Donetsk
    • Nizhyn
  • Areas
    • Kursk
  • Religions
    • Čimarii Jüla (mari_paganism)
    • Inmarism (udmurt_paganism)
    • Važesköm (komi_paganism)
    • Samoyedic Shamanism (samoyedic_paganism)
  • Dynamic Names
    • Added some Dynamic Names
CORRECTIONS

Renamed the following:
  • Locations (only corrections. Additionally renamed all location to standardized form):
    • Ak-Mechet to Aqmecit
    • Aqmescit to Qarasuvbazar
    • Berezivka to Aqmecit
    • Brovary to Desnyanskyi Horodok
    • Chaplynka to Qalançaq
    • Chervonyi Mayak to Tavan
    • Henichesk to Enice
    • Holyi Pereviz to Ordu Bazar
    • Hornostaivka to Rohat Kermen
    • Kherson to Oleshia
    • Lykhivka to Myshuryn Rih
    • Nova Odesa to Argamakli Sarai
    • Ochakov to Dashev
    • Orzhytsya to Horoshino
    • Primorsko-Akhtarsk to Akhtar
    • Pyatigorsk to Yessentuq
    • Ripky to Liubech
    • Romny to Romen
    • Shevelivka to Vovchansk
    • Starogorodskaya to Oster
    • Unenezh to Nizhyn
    • Vasylivka to Kinskie
    • Velyka Bilozerka to Kuchugur
    • Veselynove to Balikley
    • Voznesensk to Sokolyts
  • Provinces - only corrections. Additionally, renamed all of them to a standardized form:
    • Chaplynka to Qalançaq
    • Kalay to Or Qapi
    • Kherson to Oleshia
    • Krasnohrad to Karlivka
    • Luhansk to Luhan
    • Melitopol to Berda
    • Novgorod Seversky to Novhorod Siverskyi
    • Ochakov to Boh
    • Odessa to Khadjibey
    • Posad to Kalmius
    • Primorsko Akhtarsk to Akhtar
    • Starodub Seversky to Starodub Siverskyi
    • Zvenigorod Seversky to Zvenihorod Siverskyi
  • Areas - only corrections. Additionally, renamed all of them to a standardized form:
    • Eastern Ukraine to Left Bank Ukraine
    • Posad to Pryazovia
    • Western Ukraine to Right Bank Ukraine
Raw Goods
  • Changed some Raw Goods as suggested
Terrain and Vegetation
  • Total Review
Pops
  • Completely reviewed population numbers
  • Added some minorities, currently WIP

In this review, we focused a lot on pops, as they were not in line with the usual benchmark we have for most of the regions. You might notice a lot of changes in the cultural and religious maps, therefore. However, there are still some loose ends, so we're currently working towards adding some more minorities here and there. Thus, any additional feedback on this matter will be appreciated, as we will be able to implement stuff quickly from this feedback review.

And here you have the maps:

Countries:
View attachment 1311104
View attachment 1311105
View attachment 1311106

Dynasties:
View attachment 1311110

Country Ranks & Government Types:
View attachment 1311111
View attachment 1311112

Societies of Pops:
View attachment 1311118

Locations:
View attachment 1311121
View attachment 1311122

Provinces:
View attachment 1311123
View attachment 1311128

Areas:
View attachment 1311129

Terrain:
View attachment 1311131
View attachment 1311132
View attachment 1311133

Development:
View attachment 1311139

Harbors:
View attachment 1311145

Cultures:
View attachment 1311147
Some cultural minorities have already been added and present here and there, and more work is ongoing here.

Languages:
View attachment 1311149
View attachment 1311150
Common language and court language.

Religions:
View attachment 1311152
This now looks much nicer, with a Tengrist majority in most of the Horde, some more Folk religions added, minorities here and there, etc.

Raw Materials:
View attachment 1311159

Markets:
View attachment 1311161

And that's all for today! Remember that this is this week's schedule:
  • Tuesday -> Tinto Flavour about the Golden Horde
  • Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about Islam
  • Thursday -> Fourth ‘Behind the Scenes’ video!
  • Friday -> Tinto Flavour about the Ottomans and the Rise of the Turks situation!
And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
Honestly quite disappointed
Cultures are fully incorrect, there is no need to edit "cultural minorities", if the entire map should be redone

Why no Slavic peoples in the Golden Horde?
Why no Chuvash people?
Why Mari and Erzya people live in lands they have been forcefully resettled to by the Russian Empire?
Why no Magyar people?

No need for small changes if the grand image is not correct!! It must be totaly redone before small changes!

Here was great feedback:
I think this will be my final state of the feedback unless someone else chimes in (and please do, a comprehensive map is helpful for both the discussion and for the devs).
View attachment 1262085
Decided to make the Naimans the majority instead of Mongols in the west since Naimans were historically attested as one of the most numerous tribes. They also are a standin for the Kuschi, a tribe with a dubious origin which may or may not have been Mongolic or Turkic. Adjusted the borders in Volga Bulgaria a bit too. Naimans are said to have remained in the Irtysh and they seem to have played a role in the Chagatai khanate too.

Added some Kipchak minorities based on ground burials from this map.
View attachment 1262087View attachment 1262089

Jalair seem to have been on the Chu river at this time. Khongirad I am not so sure about, they seem to be more connected with Syr Darya than western Kazakhstan.
 
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Why is the development of the Golden Horde such as if Tamerlane had already passed through it in 1337? Am I right in understanding that this was the peak of the Golden Horde's power under Khan Uzbek? I don't understand where the cities in the Volga region went?
 

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I feel like Lithuania should start as a Kingdom tier country as its ruler was sometimes referred as a King, especially before conversion to Christianity
 
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Hello, and welcome one more week to another Tinto Maps Feedback post! Today, we will be reviewing the region of the Steppes, before tomorrow's look at the Golden Horde and Horde-related content in Tinto Flavour. Let's start with the list of changes, as usual:

ADDITIONS

Added the following:
  • Locations (13)
    • Adalaga
    • Chuhuiv
    • Hovtva
    • Kolomak
    • Lutava
    • Opishnya
    • Perekop
    • Solkhat
    • Ternivka
    • Vilshana
    • Yahotyn
    • Yaroslavka
    • Zmiiv
  • Provinces
    • Donetsk
    • Nizhyn
  • Areas
    • Kursk
  • Religions
    • Čimarii Jüla (mari_paganism)
    • Inmarism (udmurt_paganism)
    • Važesköm (komi_paganism)
    • Samoyedic Shamanism (samoyedic_paganism)
  • Dynamic Names
    • Added some Dynamic Names
CORRECTIONS

Renamed the following:
  • Locations (only corrections. Additionally renamed all location to standardized form):
    • Ak-Mechet to Aqmecit
    • Aqmescit to Qarasuvbazar
    • Berezivka to Aqmecit
    • Brovary to Desnyanskyi Horodok
    • Chaplynka to Qalançaq
    • Chervonyi Mayak to Tavan
    • Henichesk to Enice
    • Holyi Pereviz to Ordu Bazar
    • Hornostaivka to Rohat Kermen
    • Kherson to Oleshia
    • Lykhivka to Myshuryn Rih
    • Nova Odesa to Argamakli Sarai
    • Ochakov to Dashev
    • Orzhytsya to Horoshino
    • Primorsko-Akhtarsk to Akhtar
    • Pyatigorsk to Yessentuq
    • Ripky to Liubech
    • Romny to Romen
    • Shevelivka to Vovchansk
    • Starogorodskaya to Oster
    • Unenezh to Nizhyn
    • Vasylivka to Kinskie
    • Velyka Bilozerka to Kuchugur
    • Veselynove to Balikley
    • Voznesensk to Sokolyts
  • Provinces - only corrections. Additionally, renamed all of them to a standardized form:
    • Chaplynka to Qalançaq
    • Kalay to Or Qapi
    • Kherson to Oleshia
    • Krasnohrad to Karlivka
    • Luhansk to Luhan
    • Melitopol to Berda
    • Novgorod Seversky to Novhorod Siverskyi
    • Ochakov to Boh
    • Odessa to Khadjibey
    • Posad to Kalmius
    • Primorsko Akhtarsk to Akhtar
    • Starodub Seversky to Starodub Siverskyi
    • Zvenigorod Seversky to Zvenihorod Siverskyi
  • Areas - only corrections. Additionally, renamed all of them to a standardized form:
    • Eastern Ukraine to Left Bank Ukraine
    • Posad to Pryazovia
    • Western Ukraine to Right Bank Ukraine
Raw Goods
  • Changed some Raw Goods as suggested
Terrain and Vegetation
  • Total Review
Pops
  • Completely reviewed population numbers
  • Added some minorities, currently WIP

In this review, we focused a lot on pops, as they were not in line with the usual benchmark we have for most of the regions. You might notice a lot of changes in the cultural and religious maps, therefore. However, there are still some loose ends, so we're currently working towards adding some more minorities here and there. Thus, any additional feedback on this matter will be appreciated, as we will be able to implement stuff quickly from this feedback review.

And here you have the maps:

Countries:
View attachment 1311104
View attachment 1311105
View attachment 1311106

Dynasties:
View attachment 1311110

Country Ranks & Government Types:
View attachment 1311111
View attachment 1311112

Societies of Pops:
View attachment 1311118

Locations:
View attachment 1311121
View attachment 1311122

Provinces:
View attachment 1311123
View attachment 1311128

Areas:
View attachment 1311129

Terrain:
View attachment 1311131
View attachment 1311132
View attachment 1311133

Development:
View attachment 1311139

Harbors:
View attachment 1311145

Cultures:
View attachment 1311147
Some cultural minorities have already been added and present here and there, and more work is ongoing here.

Languages:
View attachment 1311149
View attachment 1311150
Common language and court language.

Religions:
View attachment 1311152
This now looks much nicer, with a Tengrist majority in most of the Horde, some more Folk religions added, minorities here and there, etc.

Raw Materials:
View attachment 1311159

Markets:
View attachment 1311161

And that's all for today! Remember that this is this week's schedule:
  • Tuesday -> Tinto Flavour about the Golden Horde
  • Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about Islam
  • Thursday -> Fourth ‘Behind the Scenes’ video!
  • Friday -> Tinto Flavour about the Ottomans and the Rise of the Turks situation!
And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
Also, why have the location names not been changed? There were a lot of proposals, but I still see soviet era cities

Proletarsk literally means Proletariat - soviet social class

Why was it not changed?
 
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Could I also ask you to post here screenshots of locations, provinces, areas and raw goods maps of Pontic-Azov Steppe and Southern part of Ruthenia?
View attachment 1311217
I am trying to promote the game in Ukrainian segments of different platforms and I always have to patch the map from 4 different TMs, or use low-res cuts from World maps of videos. It would be nice to have these four as they are the most granular and particularly catchy and interesting to people.
Thanks!
Sure:
Ukraine Locations.png

Ukraine Provinces.png
Ukraine Areas.png

Ukraine Raw Materials.png
 
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This is starting to feel like a pattern of disappointing 'feedback' posts that didn't apply or address much if any of the feedback given.
 
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The topography is seemingly unchanged?
- There need to be a lot more wetlands in the Northeast (Qashliq/Surgut areas), and near the mouth of the Wolga river.
- The central part of the Southern Urals has a relatively flat corridor
- the Zhetysu area is significantly elevated and needs several plateau locations.
- Karkaraly is indeed the most rugged location of that area, but considering how small the massifs are compared to the size of the location, 'mountains' is a stretch

Current statePrevious stateSuggested state (from previous TM - old color scheme)
Topography.png
Topography.jpg
TopoSuggested.png

link/quote from last time:
My long overdue topographical analysis!

Despite my tardiness, there are not that many changes I would suggest.
Summary:
  • Southern Urals are not terribly rugged. There are plenty of broad, flat passes from the West towards modern Yekaterinburg, where it's almost flatlands (and actually rolling hills at best in many spots).
    • Although not on the location map, Northernmost Ural crossing should need hills/mountains!
  • Morkvash location is an interesting, isolated smaller hill massif that should definitely make it on the map imo.
  • The Vasyugan Swamp is apparently the largest swamp of the Northern hemisphere, and the largest peatlands in the world.
    • This warrants a few more wetlands around the region, as also indicated by other sources
  • Northern Kazachstan has a lot of small lakes and ponds, and are not wetlands sensu strictu. I can definitely relate to this indication so I'd keep them.
  • The Kazakh Uplandsare not terribly rugged, and a mountain indication for Karkaraly is excessive.
    • that said, the whole region is definitely significantly elevated, enough to be considered a plateau in game terms
    • Perhaps the locations around Karkaraly could be reshaped a bit to fit the hilly region a bit better?
      • (I have no clue on the historical accuracy of my suggested borders though)
  • Some other smaller wetland suggestions (i made them blue on my maps as I have difficulty distinguishing the green wetlands from hills)
Suggestions
Current designSuggested design'Changelog' of suggestions
TopoCurrent.png
TopoSuggested.png
TopoChangelog.png

Elevation sources
Terrain Ruggedness Index (note that a lot of 'wetlands' in the southern half are located in more arid regions, and thus aren't very wet IRL)DEM with exaggerated colors
DEM-TRI.png
DEM-Colorful.png

Wetlands
Types of Wetlands according to Global Lakes and Wetlands database. Note that peatlands are greatly exaggerrated here.Abundance of Peatlands in area %, according to PeatMLWater depth during 100 year flood events (proxy for flood risk)
Wetlands_GLWD.png
Wetlands_PeatML.png
Wetlands_Floods.png
 
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Last edited:
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Hello, and welcome one more week to another Tinto Maps Feedback post! Today, we will be reviewing the region of the Steppes, before tomorrow's look at the Golden Horde and Horde-related content in Tinto Flavour. Let's start with the list of changes, as usual:

ADDITIONS

Added the following:
  • Locations (13)
    • Adalaga
    • Chuhuiv
    • Hovtva
    • Kolomak
    • Lutava
    • Opishnya
    • Perekop
    • Solkhat
    • Ternivka
    • Vilshana
    • Yahotyn
    • Yaroslavka
    • Zmiiv
  • Provinces
    • Donetsk
    • Nizhyn
  • Areas
    • Kursk
  • Religions
    • Čimarii Jüla (mari_paganism)
    • Inmarism (udmurt_paganism)
    • Važesköm (komi_paganism)
    • Samoyedic Shamanism (samoyedic_paganism)
  • Dynamic Names
    • Added some Dynamic Names
CORRECTIONS

Renamed the following:
  • Locations (only corrections. Additionally renamed all location to standardized form):
    • Ak-Mechet to Aqmecit
    • Aqmescit to Qarasuvbazar
    • Berezivka to Aqmecit
    • Brovary to Desnyanskyi Horodok
    • Chaplynka to Qalançaq
    • Chervonyi Mayak to Tavan
    • Henichesk to Enice
    • Holyi Pereviz to Ordu Bazar
    • Hornostaivka to Rohat Kermen
    • Kherson to Oleshia
    • Lykhivka to Myshuryn Rih
    • Nova Odesa to Argamakli Sarai
    • Ochakov to Dashev
    • Orzhytsya to Horoshino
    • Primorsko-Akhtarsk to Akhtar
    • Pyatigorsk to Yessentuq
    • Ripky to Liubech
    • Romny to Romen
    • Shevelivka to Vovchansk
    • Starogorodskaya to Oster
    • Unenezh to Nizhyn
    • Vasylivka to Kinskie
    • Velyka Bilozerka to Kuchugur
    • Veselynove to Balikley
    • Voznesensk to Sokolyts
  • Provinces - only corrections. Additionally, renamed all of them to a standardized form:
    • Chaplynka to Qalançaq
    • Kalay to Or Qapi
    • Kherson to Oleshia
    • Krasnohrad to Karlivka
    • Luhansk to Luhan
    • Melitopol to Berda
    • Novgorod Seversky to Novhorod Siverskyi
    • Ochakov to Boh
    • Odessa to Khadjibey
    • Posad to Kalmius
    • Primorsko Akhtarsk to Akhtar
    • Starodub Seversky to Starodub Siverskyi
    • Zvenigorod Seversky to Zvenihorod Siverskyi
  • Areas - only corrections. Additionally, renamed all of them to a standardized form:
    • Eastern Ukraine to Left Bank Ukraine
    • Posad to Pryazovia
    • Western Ukraine to Right Bank Ukraine
Raw Goods
  • Changed some Raw Goods as suggested
Terrain and Vegetation
  • Total Review
Pops
  • Completely reviewed population numbers
  • Added some minorities, currently WIP

In this review, we focused a lot on pops, as they were not in line with the usual benchmark we have for most of the regions. You might notice a lot of changes in the cultural and religious maps, therefore. However, there are still some loose ends, so we're currently working towards adding some more minorities here and there. Thus, any additional feedback on this matter will be appreciated, as we will be able to implement stuff quickly from this feedback review.

And here you have the maps:

Countries:
View attachment 1311104
View attachment 1311105
View attachment 1311106

Dynasties:
View attachment 1311110

Country Ranks & Government Types:
View attachment 1311111
View attachment 1311112

Societies of Pops:
View attachment 1311118

Locations:
View attachment 1311121
View attachment 1311122

Provinces:
View attachment 1311123
View attachment 1311128

Areas:
View attachment 1311129

Terrain:
View attachment 1311131
View attachment 1311132
View attachment 1311133

Development:
View attachment 1311139

Harbors:
View attachment 1311145

Cultures:
View attachment 1311147
Some cultural minorities have already been added and present here and there, and more work is ongoing here.

Languages:
View attachment 1311149
View attachment 1311150
Common language and court language.

Religions:
View attachment 1311152
This now looks much nicer, with a Tengrist majority in most of the Horde, some more Folk religions added, minorities here and there, etc.

Raw Materials:
View attachment 1311159

Markets:
View attachment 1311161

And that's all for today! Remember that this is this week's schedule:
  • Tuesday -> Tinto Flavour about the Golden Horde
  • Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about Islam
  • Thursday -> Fourth ‘Behind the Scenes’ video!
  • Friday -> Tinto Flavour about the Ottomans and the Rise of the Turks situation!
And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
Areas also upset me

There is so much lost history and divisions

Darugas of Kazan have existed since the Golden Horde, and even the Russian Empire kept those divisions, so why did the game opt for an artificial???

1748870611006.png



If the developers don't want a really big area in this place, perhaps this can be sufficient
View attachment 1302210

First will be Kazan or Volga Bulgaria, and the second is Bashkiria (correctly located)

I have also added the smallest possible Bashkiria area, with division from there
View attachment 1302208View attachment 1302209

Here are some links to check for alternative location names in Bashkir darugas:
Seber, Bashkir Nogay, Kazan, Osa(Usi)

Here is the map of Volga Bulgaria

View attachment 1292848

Red - Tatar city names
Blue - Tatar river names
Yellow - other

As a basis, I took those two maps

View attachment 1291709View attachment 1291710
The first one is 1779 map of Kazan governorate, the second is the map of the Kazan Khanate

And, If you look closely, you can see that divisions in the Kazan governorate called Darugi - a remnant of the Kazan Khanate administrative divisions. So, I propose to create Provinces like those divisions - something like Novgorod has right now
View attachment 1291722
I marked the Dorugas in red and the other divisions in yellow. As you can see, one (Crimean Daruga) is speculated to be assimilated into the Russian Uezd system.


Here I outlined this map on the EU5 map as well as I could. As you can see, somewhere the provinces don't align at all

View attachment 1291803
So with red dotted lines, I marked old divisions of the Khanate from the second map
Everything else is from the first map


Few location changes.
View attachment 1291771
With this darugas will align much better with maps
It will also allow us to represent more cities like Cäke and Koshaysk,
Cities like Bilar, Suar, Alat, Arça and Cöri will be represented much better
Made some changes and added a bit more locations

I take back my claim to rename Morkvashi - it is a historically significant city and was already on the maps of the 17th century (not the worst case). So I think we should let it be a representation of the destroyed old Bulghar city. A lot of locations are named after rivers, as I have not found better variants
View attachment 1292841

Here is my proposal for areas
View attachment 1292842
Five important darugas that have survived.
Taw yagi - mountain side - a common name for this region, represents a 6th daruga with an unknown name
Morkvashi and Bögelma - parts of the historical Nogai daruga that were separated into other divisions by the Russian Empire

or even like this to separate Sinbir
View attachment 1292861
 
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