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Tinto Talks #66 - 4th of June 2025

Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesdays where we talk about Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will discuss the mechanics of Islam. In EUV, it is considered a Religious Group, as Christianity or Buddhism:
Islam.png

As usual, please consider all UI, 2D, and 3D art WIP.

As you see, three Religions compose the group: Sunnism, Shiism, and Ibadism:
Sunnism.png

Shiism.png

Ibadism.png

They share similar features, and then inside them is where we make the religious differentiation:
Islam panel.png

The first mechanic is Schools, an old companion from EU4, but that has been reworked in EU5:
Religious School.png

Muslim countries start with a School, which gives some modifiers:
Hanafi.jpg

As you can see, each School has a different view of the other. This is important because you can invite Scholars of Schools that are available for your branch of Islam, and also don’t have a negative opinion of your chosen School.

Because, yes, the old EU4 Scholars are also present in EU5, but they’re now inside a new category, the ‘Religious Figures’, which gives some more flexibility on how to use them:
Religious Figure.jpg

Scholar.png

Scholars are now characters that can travel through the Islamic world and be invited to work for you:
Invite Scholar.png

This unlocks the possibility to change the Main School of your country to that of the Scholar:
Change Main School1.png

Change Main School2.png

Change Main School3.png

In total, we have this number of schools, with some schools being available to more than one religion:
  • 10 Sunni:
    • Ḥanafī
    • Ḥanbalī
    • Mālikī
    • Shāfi'ī
    • Ẓāhirī
    • Ash'arī
    • Māturīdī
    • Aṯarī
    • Mu'tazilī
    • Wahhābī
  • 11 Sufi - Both for Sunni and Shia, except 3:
    • Bektashi
    • Chishtī (only for Sunnism)
    • Ḵalwātī
    • Mevlevi
    • Naqshbandī (only for Sunnism)
    • Qādirī (only for Sunnism)
    • Ṣafavī
    • Shāḏilī
    • Suhrawardī
    • Īsāwī
    • Dīn-i Ilāhī
  • 8 Shia:
    • Ismā'īlī
    • Ja'farī
    • Zaydī
    • Imāmīya
    • Nizārī
    • Musta'lī
    • Alevism
    • 'Alawī
  • 1 Ibadi:
    • Ibadi - only for Ibadi
    • It also has access to all the Sunni and Shia schools, but not the Sufi ones

The main currency for the religion is Piety, again a returning concept from EU4. Piety can go from a value of -100 to +100 (representing Mysticism or Legalism respectively), giving scaling benefits to the country depending on the direction.
Piety.png

Piety will be modified towards one extreme or the other mainly through events, although there are also some ways of adding a passive monthly tendency towards one direction, including privileges and cabinet actions. Another important aspect to mention regarding piety is the fact that to be able to invite a Scholar belonging to any of the Sufi schools, the country must already be leaning towards Mysticism.

There are a couple of actions in which the country can spend its piety to gain some benefits. A country can exchange piety for either stability or manpower, and both actions require being at 50 piety towards either direction, and move the value 40 towards the center.
Manpower Action.png

Stability Action.png

There is also the option to perform a pilgrimage to one of the Holy Sites, as long as they are owned by the country, an ally, or someone with good relations. Performing a pilgrimage will give a small increase in piety, as well as sending the ruler on a holy journey.
Pilgrimage.png

Another important aspect to mention is the fact that Muslim countries have access to some unique laws and policies:
Iqta Law.png

Nikah Policy.png

Shariah Law Policy.png

Implementing the Sharī'ah Law will unlock an extra law, the Sharī'ah Jurisprudence, with policies dependent on the country’s main school.
Shariah Jurisprudence.png

Finally, there are a couple of unique buildings available for Islamic countries:
Madrassa.png

Sufi Loge.png

And that’s all for today! Tomorrow is Thursday, which means that we will publish a new ‘Behind the Scenes’ video, and on Friday, we will take a look at the Ottomans and the Rise of the Turks situation!

And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
 
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As you see, Safavid already starts the game as a school. Around the 1400s, if an Islamic country owns Ardabil, and has Safavid as its Main School, an event will trigger, creating a new country in that location, Ardabil, and allowing the player to change to it.
Rather than Ardabil can you call the newly formed country Safavids(like the Ottomans)?
 
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As you see, Safavid already starts the game as a school. Around the 1400s, if an Islamic country owns Ardabil, and has Safavid as its Main School, an event will trigger, creating a new country in that location, Ardabil, and allowing the player to change to it.

Why it doesnt start as Building based country as it did exist in 1337

Holy Orders for Christians are represented, so I want to see Islamic Orders represented as well…
 
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Bringing back the instant manpower buttons was a bad call. Overall a really disappointing dev diary when compared the the 4 Christian dev diaries.

Also is druze not considered part of the Islamic group? I can see why it wouldn't but am curious to how it's defined.
Druzism is a religion of its own.
 
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I'm not pleased to see instant manpower and stability buttons return. Feels like that was kinda copy pasted from eu4 and isn't in line with some of the vision for this game.

I appreciate the work, but this feels like a step back.
 
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There were historical cases of Hanafi-Atharis, for example the Imam Ibn Abi Al-Izz

Sha'afi's have historically been divided mostly among Ash'ari and Athari, with most being Ash'ari, for example the well known Imam Ghazali

There should be some kind of incentive to match the most commonly associated madhab with aqeedah though, I think it would make sense, (i.e. Hanafi-Maturidi, Shaafi & Maliki/Ash'ari and Hanbali/Athari)
I wanted to write Ash'ari for shaafi sorry for that. But I think for the game purposes either there should me some incentive to follow normal path or just abstracted as together I think
 
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Good dev diary! I would have one criticism:
Schools of kelam and schools of fıkıh are not mutually exclusive, and it would be good if we could choose one of each. Turks are Hanafi AND Maturidi for example.
  • Alevism
  • 'Alawī
Are these two really different schools?
Sorry for ignorance, I'm really curious since it may seem like different 'localisations'.
Alevism is a Turkish-Kurdish phenomenon related to Bektashism, Alawis, also known as Nusayris, are an ethnoreligious faith in northwest Syria. I hope these are ethnicity-region locked.
 
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The madrasa building seems interesting. Are there many ways of getting flat conversion or are the madrasas one of the few ways you can get a little conversion inside your borders without using a cabinet member.
The "mission" as showcased in TT27 can only be built in colonial charters.
 
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Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesdays where we talk about Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will discuss the mechanics of Islam. In EUV, it is considered a Religious Group, as Christianity or Buddhism:
View attachment 1312575
As usual, please consider all UI, 2D, and 3D art WIP.

As you see, three Religions compose the group: Sunnism, Shiism, and Ibadism:

They share similar features, and then inside them is where we make the religious differentiation:

The first mechanic is Schools, an old companion from EU4, but that has been reworked in EU5:

Muslim countries start with a School, which gives some modifiers:

As you can see, each School has a different view of the other. This is important because you can invite Scholars of Schools that are available for your branch of Islam, and also don’t have a negative opinion of your chosen School.

Because, yes, the old EU4 Scholars are also present in EU5, but they’re now inside a new category, the ‘Religious Figures’, which gives some more flexibility on how to use them:

Scholars are now characters that can travel through the Islamic world and be invited to work for you:

This unlocks the possibility to change the Main School of your country to that of the Scholar:

In total, we have this number of schools, with some schools being available to more than one religion:
  • 10 Sunni:
    • Ḥanafī
    • Ḥanbalī
    • Mālikī
    • Shāfi'ī
    • Ẓāhirī
    • Ash'arī
    • Māturīdī
    • Aṯarī
    • Mu'tazilī
    • Wahhābī
  • 11 Sufi - Both for Sunni and Shia, except 3:
    • Bektashi
    • Chishtī (only for Sunnism)
    • Ḵalwātī
    • Mevlevi
    • Naqshbandī (only for Sunnism)
    • Qādirī (only for Sunnism)
    • Ṣafavī
    • Shāḏilī
    • Suhrawardī
    • Īsāwī
    • Dīn-i Ilāhī
  • 8 Shia:
    • Ismā'īlī
    • Ja'farī
    • Zaydī
    • Imāmīya
    • Nizārī
    • Musta'lī
    • Alevism
    • 'Alawī
  • 1 Ibadi:
    • Ibadi - only for Ibadi
    • It also has access to all the Sunni and Shia schools, but not the Sufi ones

The main currency for the religion is Piety, again a returning concept from EU4. Piety can go from a value of -100 to +100 (representing Mysticism or Legalism respectively), giving scaling benefits to the country depending on the direction.

Piety will be modified towards one extreme or the other mainly through events, although there are also some ways of adding a passive monthly tendency towards one direction, including privileges and cabinet actions. Another important aspect to mention regarding piety is the fact that to be able to invite a Scholar belonging to any of the Sufi schools, the country must already be leaning towards Mysticism.

There are a couple of actions in which the country can spend its piety to gain some benefits. A country can exchange piety for either stability or manpower, and both actions require being at 50 piety towards either direction, and move the value 40 towards the center.

There is also the option to perform a pilgrimage to one of the Holy Sites, as long as they are owned by the country, an ally, or someone with good relations. Performing a pilgrimage will give a small increase in piety, as well as sending the ruler on a holy journey.

Another important aspect to mention is the fact that Muslim countries have access to some unique laws and policies:

Implementing the Sharī'ah Law will unlock an extra law, the Sharī'ah Jurisprudence, with policies dependent on the country’s main school.

Finally, there are a couple of unique buildings available for Islamic countries:

And that’s all for today! Tomorrow is Thursday, which means that we will publish a new ‘Behind the Scenes’ video, and on Friday, we will take a look at the Ottomans and the Rise of the Turks situation!

And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
1749043359115.png


Is it just free man out of the air?
Maybe its better to make a conscription/manpower gain modifier rather than a quick influx of people (suprize! for your piety we found 2 thousand man to fight for you)

A modifier for a year doubling the manpower generation sound much better, and will do the same thing just over some time. This wil also preven abuse of the mechanics (like slack recrutement spam in eu4)

same with stability, just make it a modifier for a year. You dont just become more satable overnight
 
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why does going negative in piety gives also more satisfaction to the clergy ? Was there a typo in the code before the DD ?
It's not a typo. Your clergy is more satisfied if your country is going on full Legalism or full Mysticism, but less satisfied if you're in-between (so, there isn't a clear direction for your society).
 
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1749043338628.png

I think religious attitudes should be shown via a graphic instead of just text, Something like showing a dove for kindred, Sword for Enemy, a handshake for cooperative and a red lightning bolt for hostile. Just to make it easier at a glance. It also makes it so you can show both directions for an attitude at once, as in school A being Neutral towards school B, but school B being hostile towards school A.

Also yes I know this graphic is bad, just take it as a very rough example, maybe in game it could be colour coded as well with some nestled tool tips.
 
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The main currency for the religion is Piety, again a returning concept from EU4. Piety can go from a value of -100 to +100 (representing Mysticism or Legalism respectively), giving scaling benefits to the country depending on the direction.
Piety.png
The clergy gets a 10% satisfaction boost on both ends, is this correct?
Seems odd to me, and even looking at EU4 it's working differently, giving dhimmiy satisfaction for mysticism instead:
Screenshot_20250604_102700_Chrome.jpg
 
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I think in general Islam isn't well made yet, I hope it will have a full rework before game is released. It is just EU5 adjusted EU4 islam with only few extras.
 
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View attachment 1312606

if I remeber correctly manpower is connected to the pops in the location they are taken from
So to where is this manpower attached?

Is it just free man out of the air?
Maybe its better to make a conscription modifier rather than a quick influx of people (suprize for your piety we found 2 thousand man to fight for you)

A modifier for a year doubling the manpower generation sound much better

same with stability
I mean instant and quick influx is not that different
I don't think it's weird for a quick influx after call to arm to last for a few months rather than whole year
Why not doing a 3 month bonus but doesn't make much more sense than instant imi
 
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Can these be renamed so they feel less gamey? This way it sounds too much as "spend mana points". The same actions if called something like "call for gazi warriors" / "extend qanun legislation" at least feel more like roleplaying
1749043604631.png
1749043618520.png
 
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