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Tinto Maps #24 Korea and Japan Feedback

Hello and welcome to another week of Tinto Maps Feedback. Today, we will take a look at Korea and Japan. This area has required less rework than other ones, but still some adjustments have been made.

ADDITIONS

Added the following:
  • Locations
    • Tamura
    • Seongwi
    • Jindo
    • Heungyang
    • Namhae
    • Geoje
  • TAGs
    • Shěnyáng
  • Characters
    • ssg_jo_hwi
    • ssg_jo_yanggi
    • ssg_jo_rim
    • ssg_jo_sosaeng
    • ssg_jo_don
    • ssg_jo_inbyeok
    • kor_ja
    • kor_ko
CORRECTIONS

Renamed the following:
  • Locations:
    • Renamed Aira to Kuwabara
    • Renamed Jeju to Tamna
Areas and Provinces
  • Total rework of areas and provinces of Korea
  • Renamed Tōhoku to Ōu
Cultures
  • Renamed Jeju culture to Tamna
Raw Goods
  • Changed several Raw Goods as suggested
Terrain and Vegetation
  • Total Review
Locations
  • Redrew several Locations
Minorities
  • Added someminorities

Countries:
Countries.png

Countries color.png

Not many changes here, only the addition of Shenyang.​

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

Not many changes here either, but you can see that Shenyang has the same dynasty as Goryeo.​

Country ranks and Government Types:
Country Ranks.png
Government Types.png


Locations:
Locations.png

As I said, no major changes here, only minor adjustments.​
Locations zoom 1.png

Locations zoom 2.png

Locations zoom 3.png

Locations zoom 4.png

Locations zoom 5.png

Locations zoom 6.png

Locations zoom 7.png

Locations zoom 8.png

Provinces:
Provinces.png


Areas:
Areas.png

Provinces and areas of Korea is what has received the most change here.​

Terrain:
Topography.png
Climate.png
Vegetation.png


Development:
Development.png


Harbors:
Harbors.png


Cultures:
Cultures.png

Not much change in the major cultures, although a bit of adjustment of minorities.​

Languages:
Language.png

Court Language.png

Location’s language first, Court Language second.​

Religions:
Religion.png


Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

Raw Materials zoom 1.png

Raw Materials zoom 2.png

Raw Materials zoom 3.png

Raw Materials zoom 4.png

Raw Materials zoom 5.png

Markets:
Markets.png


And not much has changed with the clans distribution, but here you have it:
Clans.png


That is all for today, this week we will not move far from these areas, here’s the schedule:
  • Tuesday: Tinto Flavour for Korea and Manchuria
  • Wednesday: Tinto Talks for Shintō and the Shogunate
  • Thursday: ‘Behind the Music of Europa Universalis V - Composing the Grandest Score’ video!
  • Friday: Tinto Flavour for Japan and the situations of the Nanbokuchō and Sengoku Jidai

And always as a reminder: Wishlist Europa Universalis V now!
 
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ArVass said:
By the way, I counted 173 locations in Hungary in an area that is roughly 282,000 km², which also gives a factor of 1.63 - basically exactly the same as that of Korea.

Japan, which has an area of about 377,000 km² (366 if we count only the main islands), was noted to have roughly 300 locations (however I couldn't count them myself because I keep losing track halfway), if we accept that number as an accurate estimate, we get a factor of 1.25. That is significantly higher than Czechia of Hungary, and closer to France's density.
Click to expand...

2255.png

Isn’t it 400?
 
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zeruosi said:
The Yuan Dynasty designated Jeju Island as a horse-breeding ground, supplying a significant number of warhorses. Later, the Ming Dynasty also demanded warhorse tributes from Jeju Island—though they primarily sourced warhorses from Ryukyu.
Click to expand...
That's interesting, do you happen to know why islands were chosen? The ferrying of horses must have been costly.
 
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Sizvahstar said:
Could you unpack this, please?
I assume you are referring to the daimyos, but AFAIK they will keep being ABCs or BBCs, not ending up as CBCs - unless they take land from the Shogun.
Click to expand...
Once the Sengoku Jidai kicks off the Daimyos are going to start occupying territory. Maybe they'll become ABCs, maybe Settled Countries, but regardless Japan needs to have enough locations for over 100 of these guys, hence the unusually high density of locations for a non-european country.
 
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zeruosi said:
Here's some concerning news—I found identical maps created by the same user on Chinese forums. The two circles here represent the Yuan Dynasty's capital (Dadu) and Pudong, Shanghai. When compared to Hokkaido, it's evident that China's most populous and densely populated regions were three times larger than Hokkaido's territory.

Dadu alone had nearly one million residents. During the Ming Dynasty's peak, this area housed 2.49 million people—second only to Suzhou (3 million) and Nanjing (2.8 million). Meanwhile, Hokkaido had merely 30,000 inhabitants until the Meiji era.

The contrast is staggering！

Disclaimer: I don’t intend to derail this thread, but the scale difference is so extreme that it inevitably evokes comparisons to EU4's absurdly simplified Ming Dynasty—where regions were as sparsely populated as the Sahara Desert or Siberian permafrost."

View attachment 1316187
Click to expand...
Not sure if you can photshop it easily, but I recommend using www.thetruesize.com
(Edited to the correct site)
 
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Sizvahstar said:
That's interesting, do you happen to know why islands were chosen? The ferrying of horses must have been costly.
Click to expand...
Well, as a matter of fact, I do know.

Raising horses requires a favorable climate, moderately open terrain, relatively abundant rainfall, and extensive pastureland. Most mainland regions can meet these conditions. However, islands offer one unique advantage—their small size.


Horses obviously cannot swim across oceans, eliminating concerns about feral herds escaping capture. Predators also pose no threat, as they cannot decimate horse populations. Additionally, islands enjoy stable climates, enabling precise calculation of annual population growth. This stability facilitates both local management and data tracking, making islands prime locations for horse breeding.


An intriguing historical footnote: Ryukyu had submitted 30,000 warhorses as tribute to the Ming Dynasty just one month before the Satsuma invasion. Had Satsuma attacked a month earlier, they might have faced one of history's most formidable cavalry forces—lamo.
 
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Sizvahstar said:
Not sure if you can photshop it easily, but I recommend using www.truesizeof.com
Click to expand...
I have access to Photoshop (PS), but this isn't my original work. Rather, they are the works of the same user.
xinche said:
location in Liaodong is equal to seven Korean locations or ten Japanese locations.Any normal person would not consider this reasonable.China needs more location
Click to expand...
 
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Sirbab said:
Coming from relative ignorance of this period of East Asian history, I am curious why people are complaining about the number of provinces in Korea, Japan, and to a smaller extent China. Please don't take this as euro centrism, I am genuinely curious.

1: what are the reasons you see why more locations is a good thing?

1: RGOs, if multiple substantial resources were gathered close to each other, it makes sense to divide them to represent both goods.
Click to expand...
I expect you know this but I'll say it so it's said - and this is just objective truth so I'm not arguing for or against this region.

1.1) Locations exist in a Province which exists in an Area, and your can use a Cabinet action to dev a whole Province. I believe integration and/or culture conversion works the same, and then some actions work on an Area later.
In short, more Locations more good, more power due to efficiency.

1.2) AFAIK RGO levels are capped at 100 dev, not sure if that means 100 levels or less. Two small Locations represent double the potential of one larger Location.

That said, having massive chunks of smaller land pieces makes controlling them all harder, so it's really only beneficial in a supply sense or as a Traditional Economy, which does not seem to be what you want to end up with in the end of the game.
 
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Sizvahstar said:
your argument is that DESPITE all of Asia being subpar to Europe, Korea and Japan should sit down and shut up because they got more than China did.
Click to expand...
China and Korea are already in a good place though. As has been pointed out we're looking at Hungarian densities for Korea and French densities for Japan. That's extremely good. The only reason to complain is if you think the region needs Italian or German levels of density, and since those regions are very explicitly intended to be outliers due to their unusually fragmented political situation, specific arguments for why Japan and/or Korea demand the same treatment are needed. As is nobody has given that, just vague gestures towards "eurocentrism bad", which rings rather hollow when this region is already on par with parts of Europe, and not on a technicality either.

Also it's fallacy, not "phallacy". Makes it look like you were trying to make a portmanteau with phallus and botched it.
 
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zeruosi said:
Well, as a matter of fact, I do know.

Raising horses requires a favorable climate, moderately open terrain, relatively abundant rainfall, and extensive pastureland. Most mainland regions can meet these conditions. However, islands offer one unique advantage—their small size.


Horses obviously cannot swim across oceans, eliminating concerns about feral herds escaping capture. Predators also pose no threat, as they cannot decimate horse populations. Additionally, islands enjoy stable climates, enabling precise calculation of annual population growth. This stability facilitates both local management and data tracking, making islands prime locations for horse breeding.


An intriguing historical footnote: Ryukyu had submitted 30,000 warhorses as tribute to the Ming Dynasty just one month before the Satsuma invasion. Had Satsuma attacked a month earlier, they might have faced one of history's most formidable cavalry forces—lamo.
Click to expand...
That's really interesting, thanks for the information!
 
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Friedrich von Deutschland said:
China and Korea are already in a good place though. As has been pointed out we're looking at Hungarian densities for Korea and French densities for Japan. That's extremely good.
Click to expand...
I'm in agreement now, but the phrasing I commented on that you used did not come off well:
"Japan and Korea are in Asia and there's no good reason for them to be held to a different standard."

If I've misunderstood previously I'll beg your pardon.
Friedrich von Deutschland said:
Also it's fallacy, not "phallacy". Makes it look like you were trying to make a portmanteau with phallus and botched it.
Click to expand...
Lmao, you're right, my bad!
 
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As a Korean, the eight provinces finally being presented in paradox game is just beautiful

However, I think I want a dynamic name change for most of the locations depending on the dynasty. For example, Segyeong should become Pyeongyang, Kaegyeong should be Kaeseong, Inju can be Incheon and so on.


And I wish the one Liaodong location stretching into Gwanbuk will be fixed before release
 
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A sudden thought—can I seize the title of a vassal state? For example, the title of 'Seongju' (Star Lord) held by the King of Tamna. When playing as Korea, I want to convert this 'Seongju' into my primary title.
 
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