A Paradox 4X Space Game?

[Cybvep]

I don't think that this is a huge problem. At the beginning you should be busy colonizing the solar system. And to the next stars (alpha centaury 4 light years) can be colonized by subsace/impulse egnines. With fusion reactors and an ion-engine spaceships can make it. 1 lightyear = 40.000.000.000.000 km. Lightspeed is 1.080.000.000 km/h. 8.544,6. With 1/10 lightspeed you will make it in 40 years. Some scientists think that you can travel with 4/10 lightspeed so 10 Years would be possible. That is not much more as you need to get an army without fuel and supplies trough russia^^. So you don't even need generationships for close stars like Alpha Centauri, Sirius, etc.

With FTL, the rate of expansion would rise exponentially, though. This could create balance problems, especially if FTL rushing was a viable option (I know nothing about the research system in this hypothetical game). Note that colony rush is a very frequent problem in 4X games.

Also, Google says that 1 light year is 9.46 trillion kilometres. The value you gave is the distance to Alpha Centauri (4.37 light years).

 

[unmerged(739438)]

With FTL, the rate of expansion would rise exponentially, though. This could create balance problems, especially if FTL rushing was a viable option (I know nothing about the research system in this hypothetical game). Note that colony rush is a very frequent problem in 4X games.

I would propose the population as limit: All facilities should need a certain amount of manpower to run. If there are not enough colonists you will get no benefits from the expansion. Or isn't that the problem?

Also, Google says that 1 light year is 9.46 trillion kilometres. The value you gave is the distance to Alpha Centauri (4.37 light years).

You are right. But the result is correct?

 

[Cybvep]

Well, in most games underdeveloped colonies are pretty worthless, but the players know that it's a long-term investment and that they can "claim" territory by colonising planets. If somebody wants to take it, their will need to DOW you. It's the same even in non-space games like Civilization IV, for example, where you "block" resources by building many cities early on. After 1-2 hours it often becomes obvious who will win. Colony/city rush is a quite common strategy and most 4X games struggle with it.

 

[unmerged(739438)]

Well, in most games underdeveloped colonies are pretty worthless, but the players know that it's a long-term investment and that they can "claim" territory by colonising planets. If somebody wants to take it, their will need to DOW you. It's the same even in non-space games like Civilization IV, for example, where you "block" resources by building many cities early on. After 1-2 hours it often becomes obvious who will win. Colony/city rush is a quite common strategy and most 4X games struggle with it.

I guess there are several options:

1. (the allready mentioned) Need of men to run the facility.
2. Pre-colonization steps: "Manned ground station" (There is just a harbour with a limited crew), "Outpost" (There is allready some kind of industry) and "Colony" (More than 10 million population -> Now other factions can't claim the planet without declare war). In addition an other faction should be able to wipe out a "manned ground station" or the "oupost" without a declaration of war. It's just an (border) incident.
3. Diplomacy: You should be able to influence a population by your intelligence to inspire/encourage them to became independent or connect to your faction (like in "Star Wars: Rebellion"). To avoid this you need a large amount of loyal inhabitants, a strong military presence and counter intelligence.

What do you think?

By the way: Suggestion concerning the population: With 2 billion 1,2 (60 percent) billion should be able to work. Depending on the culture 100 % of the male will work and a certain percentage of women - maybe 10 %. So there are 660 million workers. Your should need a certain percentage of the whole population to run the economy (consumer goods, food etc.). Maybe 0,27 of the whole population = 540 million (Mines (1/5), refineries (1/5) and Industry (3/5)). In this case 120 million would be available for other facilities or the military service. And the player should have a disadventage if there is there is a high rate of unemployment.

 

[Cybvep]

100% males working? That never happens. Some are too old, some are sick, some are simply unemployed because of other factors. Also, most women work, too, not just 10%, heh.

In addition an other faction should be able to wipe out a "manned ground station" or the "oupost" without a declaration of war. It's just an (border) incident.

It would be cool if border incidents could escalate.

Anyway, I don't think that a rival faction should be able to destroy small colonies without repercussion, at least not always. However, having a small colony on a planet should not prevent other factions from building colonies on that planet, too. Maybe a modifier like "Planet Control" could work. Having multiple factons on a planet is actually interesting from a gameplay perspective - there could be several options to change that, e.g. war, assimilation, diplomacy ("we will withdraw from this planet and sign a non-aggression pact for 30 years"), revolt.

It annoys me that in most 4X games diplomacy is rather boring. There is no real tension, it's just either war or peace and usually when faction A DOWs faction B, it's a total war.

 

[unmerged(739438)]

100% males working? That never happens. Some are too old, some are sick, some are simply unemployed because of other factors. Also, most women work, too, not just 10%, heh.

No, 60 % of all males. 100 % of the ready to work males. The 10 % auf the 60 % women were just an sample. I have no idea which is an authentic rate.

It would be cool if border incidents could escalate.

It should depent on your intelligence how it will handle this case.

Anyway, I don't think that a rival faction should be able to destroy small colonies without repercussion, at least not always.

Do you know Babylon V? The attempt by the Narn to occupy ragesh 3 is a good example: It was so far away that the Centaurum refused to do something.

It annoys me that in most 4X games diplomacy is rather boring. There is no real tension, it's just either war or peace and usually when faction A DOWs faction B, it's a total war.

I also would like it if diplomacy wouldn't be just a way to switch between war and peace. It would be great if diplomacy and intelligence could also be an option to gather influence and to gain planets.

 

[Cybvep]

Do you know Babylon V? The attempt by the Narn to occupy ragesh 3 is a good example: It was so far away that the Centaurum refused to do something.

I didn't watch it, but I think that the destruction of remote outposts, scout ships, lone merchantmen etc. should give the receiver a chance to respond. Not necessarily with war, but with an embargo, a warning, a limited retaliatory strike etc. It would add a new dimension to diplomacy, I think .

 

[nikssims]

It could concentrate on Furture History

I would like this kind of a game.

 

[safe-keeper]

I would love a Paradox sci-fi grand strategy game, or for that matter, a fantasy game -- I've been thinking how awesome it would be if a studio like Paradox created Dominions 3 .

 

[Cybvep]

I've been listening to episode 216 of Three Moves Ahead and one of the guys made a really good point about the tediousness of ship customisation. Many 4X space games allow you to customise ships, but upgrading the designs is often a chore. You need to go back to the shipyard, replace Laser with Laser +1 (that what it really is, even if it has a fancy s-f name), which now "occupies" more slot points or whatever, so you need to make other adjustments etc. 5 turns later, your scientists design a new hull or a new weapon type (Laser +2! YEAH!), and you go back to the shipyard again, adjust your designs... There are some stock models, but for a variety of reasons, they are pretty terrible, especially once you master the system. Same deal with automated designs.

This is very important IMO. Ship customisation often falls into this trap... Another problem is that the system often favours the player greatly, because the AI is stuck with stock models or is simply much worse at designing efficient ships than the player. Anybody knows a 4X game with a good ship customisation system that is AI-friendly and not micro-intensive? Or maybe someone has an idea how to avoid the issues I mentioned?

 

[Sarayakat]

I've been listening to episode 216 of Three Moves Ahead and one of the guys made a really good point about the tediousness of ship customisation. Many 4X space games allow you to customise ships, but upgrading the designs is often a chore. You need to go back to the shipyard, replace Laser with Laser +1 (that what it really is, even if it has a fancy s-f name), which now "occupies" more slot points or whatever, so you need to make other adjustments etc. 5 turns later, your scientists design a new hull or a new weapon type (Laser +2! YEAH!), and you go back to the shipyard again, adjust your designs... There are some stock models, but for a variety of reasons, they are pretty terrible, especially once you master the system. Same deal with automated designs.

This is very important IMO. Ship customisation often falls into this trap... Another problem is that the system often favours the player greatly, because the AI is stuck with stock models or is simply much worse at designing efficient ships than the player. Anybody knows a 4X game with a good ship customisation system that is AI-friendly and not micro-intensive? Or maybe someone has an idea how to avoid the issues I mentioned?

SOTS1 was cool like that in that you would just scrap the old models and build new ones. The scrapping would add to your construction total for the turn and give back some cash so it just represented a drydock period in some ways. Also, the tech tree being varied, ships don't become obsolete all at once and so retain utility, depending on where and how they are used. I would add that the AI in the final, expansioned, patched SOT1 is pretty good about adapting to whatever you are fielding and bringing out designs that exploit the weaknesses of your designs.

 

[cwg9]

I just wanted to add to the chorus that I'd love to see PDS take a stab at making an epic space grand strategy game that brings to the genre the kind of strategic nuance and complexity that PDS is so very good at. My favourites in the genre that I still play from time to time are Master of Orion 2, Galactic Civilizations 2 + expansions, and Distant Worlds + expansions. I'm not that crazy about the more tactical battle focused space games like Sword of the Stars or Sins of a Solar Empire.

 

[FOARP]

I just wanted to add to the chorus that I'd love to see PDS take a stab at making an epic space grand strategy game that brings to the genre the kind of strategic nuance and complexity that PDS is so very good at. My favourites in the genre that I still play from time to time are Master of Orion 2, Galactic Civilizations 2 + expansions, and Distant Worlds + expansions. I'm not that crazy about the more tactical battle focused space games like Sword of the Stars or Sins of a Solar Empire.

To be a proper Paradox game, a Paradox 4X game would have to be 'historical' in the same way its true-history games are. This means a populated universe with a good, deep back-story. I'm thinking tactical combat wouldn't really fit in with that theme.

SOTS1 was cool like that in that you would just scrap the old models and build new ones. The scrapping would add to your construction total for the turn and give back some cash so it just represented a drydock period in some ways. Also, the tech tree being varied, ships don't become obsolete all at once and so retain utility, depending on where and how they are used. I would add that the AI in the final, expansioned, patched SOT1 is pretty good about adapting to whatever you are fielding and bringing out designs that exploit the weaknesses of your designs.

It would be better if you just select the type of weapon/engines/shields and these are upgraded automatically when a new version of the weapon/engines/shields comes on-stream.

 

[Donau]

To be a proper Paradox game, a Paradox 4X game would have to be 'historical' in the same way its true-history games are. This means a populated universe with a good, deep back-story. I'm thinking tactical combat wouldn't really fit in with that theme.



It would be better if you just select the type of weapon/engines/shields and these are upgraded automatically when a new version of the weapon/engines/shields comes on-stream.

Keeping ships up to date is a head ache in alot of 4x games where that is a gameplay aspect, a system where vessels in friendly systems would automatically go in for refit after x-amount of time has passed would be brilliant and more true to form with how Navies work today. Vessels need to maintenance, maybe you have a system in your empire which specializes in maintaining and refitting your vessels, maybe this could play into tactical gameplay in a way. At any given moment during peacetime you only have so much of your fleet active and on patrol.

EvW may benefit from a system like that for realism, I don't know if they have one.