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BiB said:
I liked the first post, it really started to deviate in all sorts of directions from that point on though :D

Well, this is a discussion thread, which will function to gather ideas for me and such :)
(and to check if there is some interest for it in general).

Some people have very ambitious ideas about it and others not. Personally, I am open to a lot of things, but the goal should be to keep it simple for the players and grant them enough freedom to act as they want. Hence, no rules. Not too much hassle. But a lot of fun.

After a while I will make the game thread so it's clear what it will be about if you sign up, including the scenario and the timeslot.
 
BiB said:
It's deviating against that idea :D

Well, the playerbase likes somewhat complicated things (after all, they are playing EU2).

But I think that if you like RPG, and since the ToH had worked nicely after all, maybe adapting the ToH ideas to an historical setting is the best. (Although that could need a very involved GM, poor FAL).

Anyway, if this is played Sunday then I'm in.
 
VERY complicated ideas :rolleyes:

Split up the leadergenerating into two steps:

1) Talent - historical leaders have some talent (current stats -1? -2?) and extra random leaders can be generated. - this will leave you with a set of leaders in a skillrange 1-4 or so, with 4 being exceptional.

2) All leaders get their stats edited based on military tradition (possibly other things) - a country with a strong military tradition would get +1 or maybe +2 on stats, countries that have been lethargic for ages might even get penalties.

Or, alternatively, you can have "historical leadership" as a modifier for the generation process.

Ie. all leaders are removed, but when Villars would come, France gets random rolls 2-6 instead of 1-5 (for example)

-----------------

Explorers/Conquistadors:

I like the idea of a bidding system, but would like to make it a little different, make it a "looking for" system instead. [sort of blind bidding- you know there might be explorers/conquistadors available, but you don't know their skill etc]

Ie. Everyone who wants explorers, conquistadors etc. makes a royal proclamation (it is roleplay afterall) that they are looking for brave men to chart the seas/land/whatever they want charted, and that they will be greatly rewarded :rolleyes: .

Now, the GM(s) has(have) a list of explorers, conquistadors for a session (with a personal price tag depending on skill and lifespan)
The GM compares these pricetags to the countries' offers (could be modified by distance country-hometown explorer, historical enmity, colonial history of nation (ie. number of existing colonies, previously hired explorers/conquistadors) etc) and then approaches the countries that fit the conquistadors/explorers, and see if they will take up the offer. (if they don't that will ofcourse have an influence on further explorers/conquistadors considering offers)

EDIT: the GM could ofcourse throw in a few "active" explorers who go to specific courts to ask for funding (like Columbus did) - to help jumpstart countries (Portugal, Spain) help countries recover, etc. etc.
 
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FAL said:
Since the newest beta patch hasn't the Kent-Calais strait anymore, I see no reason why BiB should not make his glorious comeback ;)

And I liked it the way it was :(


...with the strait, I mean :)
 
FAL said:
So, most of you agree the military tradition should be used, with countries getting better leaders if they are military active and worser leaders if they don't fight wars for a long time.
The details need of course to be worked out, but the basic should be clear.
I'm not sure what you mean with getting "worser" leaders, you shouldnt punish medium powers like Brandenburg, Portugal and Venice etc for not fighting wars.
They dont have the potential to fight as much as France etc.
And i foresee that any such system will increase the amount of gang bangs.

FAL said:
Dp sliders
DP sliders should be in line with your ingame actions. If you convert a lot of provinces, it would be silly if you push your dp slider towards innovativeness. The GM will watch these sort of things.
It depends on what nation, Brandenburg can easily be 5 inno and convert successfully. Be careful not to make rules that generalize too much, as every nation is played differently.

FAL said:
Explorers:
As for explorers, I have the idea to make a bidding system. At start of each session, there is an amount of (historical) explorers available. Countries can bid on them. In that way, the explorers will be hired by countries who are willing to spend money for it. However, for the first session it will be assured Portugal and Spain get the advance (ie, the first explorers), to at least enter a historical path. After that, we will see how it will develop in the game..
What kind of payment do you have in mind? Ducats?
It'll force nations to mint alot the last years to save up cash, those less wars.
Also, such rule would benefit some nations alot, like Spain and England.
While France that have much more normaly to attend to in Europe, they might not afford to "buy" explorers like that.

I think some kind of leader system for this would be better, were people can choose there preferences. Like the system we use in BF.

You should also be careful in any changes regarding historical leaders, especially if you use a military tradition system.

FAL said:
Events
As for events, I do plan on altering those if there is a good reason for in game. Some events will not make sense anymore if the orginal historical reason for it is no longer present.
Some events can be changed to affect other countries, or give different effects. And possible new events will be created.
Could be interesting, but it means *alot* of work between session for the editor.

FAL said:
Such a sort of game recquires a lot of trust in the GM to shape things and therefore I plan to make it before each session known to the public what will happen. This has the disadvantage that there are no 'surprises', but the advantage that everyone can help spot errors.
Actually, how the discussion look so far you will need atleast two, three Co-Gm/Editors. ;)

FAL said:
Example of how things could work:

Before a session start I could give information like this:

Starting year of next session: 1670

Missions

France: Louis XIV sees the Dutch Republic as a primary enemy, especially since the occupy the rich provinces of Flandern and Artois. France wants those provinces.
Declare war on the Dutch Republic with the war goal of taking those provinces.
Reward at making an attempt: Receiving an investment in military tech and cores on those Dutch provinces.

Effect on other countries if France accepts:
The Netherlands: You fear the new expansions of Louis XIV. Try to create a strong alliance against France and prevent him from expanding.
Reward at success: France loses cores on Dutch cultured provinces. You will keep De Witt as a monarch.
I dont like strict orders like that, "attack B and C and you will be rewarded" etc. you should rather give them guidelines in that case. But always let the player decied themself in the end.

FAL said:
I have written the above from the top of my head, so it is possible there are some errors in it. For the real game I will of course do some basic research first, but expect players to keep an eye on their own history at well. ;)
It should give a good idea of how countries get missions each session.
Encourage players to play historical is a good idea, but it require a rather experience player setup to make this successful. Preferably, give out nations to players that know them best. Historicly and gamewise.
 
Barnius said:
WARS AND DIPLOMACY


This is related to diploamcy and alliances. Would perhaps no player alliances be a good rule?

In newbie game we play with no military alliance, except if you want to go to war against someone or if you want to have help when you defend. Alliance are then deleted between sessions.

You might think that this doesn't change anything but I've observed a more fluid diplomatic scene. People change their alliegiance between session, they aren'T tied so deeply to the official alliance created in the beginning of the game.

Each game I'll GM, I will definatly play with this rule or a variant.


I didn't had time to read the rest of the thread deeply, but ideas are flowing and they are good.
 
I tend to agree with BiB, this is getting really damn complicated...

I, for one, don't want to play in a game that has 2-3 pages of complicated rules you have to re-read before each session in order to stay in touch with the game.

Also, many of these suggestions will be too much for just one GM to handle. Not to mention that the game imo will lose some of it's magic if more happens through edits between sessions than ingame...
 
Hive said:
I tend to agree with BiB, this is getting really damn complicated...

I, for one, don't want to play in a game that has 2-3 pages of complicated rules you have to re-read before each session in order to stay in touch with the game.

Also, many of these suggestions will be too much for just one GM to handle. Not to mention that the game imo will lose some of it's magic if more happens through edits between sessions than ingame...

Have you seen Olympian Rebirth?

I'm hoping/assuming FAL is striving to get something like that but in a historical setting- sure, it has more rules than most games, but it's not only rules :)
 
As I said, this thread is to get ideas mainly and to discuss possible ideas. The end result will still be quite close to what I have posted in the first post.

One thing is sure, the game won't have much rules.

Probably much editing work, but that's something for me to worry about as a GM :D
 
I think 'guidelines' are the way of the future. Not strict yes/no rules but suggestions on how to play and game theme. With the right players and attitude i think the same goals can be acheived. This is especially true if you have a GM who is very involved in managing rewards etc. RP rewards are enough incentive for a lot of people. Example in thread below.

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195482
 
ForzaA said:
VERY complicated ideas :rolleyes:

Split up the leadergenerating into two steps:

1) Talent - historical leaders have some talent (current stats -1? -2?) and extra random leaders can be generated. - this will leave you with a set of leaders in a skillrange 1-4 or so, with 4 being exceptional.

2) All leaders get their stats edited based on military tradition (possibly other things) - a country with a strong military tradition would get +1 or maybe +2 on stats, countries that have been lethargic for ages might even get penalties.

.
.
.

EDIT: the GM could ofcourse throw in a few "active" explorers who go to specific courts to ask for funding (like Columbus did) - to help jumpstart countries (Portugal, Spain) help countries recover, etc. etc.


I like those ideas (leaders & explorers). But, would it be realistic that any nation can get access to explorer? I mean (And I might certainly be wrong), exploration was to get access to the spices from Asia. I'm not sure that the Ottomans could have access to the explorer when you see this aspect. Same thing for strongly land-based power like Austria : they don't see their future in the sea.

so, if we suppose what I said to be true, what could be the criterias used ?
 
well in answer to bal's question the easiest way is leaders should be based on DP sliders, naval orinetated nations get explores of a better calibre or somethin similiar. Of course a really complicated way to do it is to base leaders genaeration on the missions one has attempted, someone who has done a lot of colonial ones at the expnense of land ones could get a better naval leader chance. Wow that is incredibly complicated :D

PS: Bal where are the missions for our game? steal the idea from this thread if need be but I want some missions :)
 
balinus said:
I like those ideas (leaders & explorers). But, would it be realistic that any nation can get access to explorer? I mean (And I might certainly be wrong), exploration was to get access to the spices from Asia. I'm not sure that the Ottomans could have access to the explorer when you see this aspect. Same thing for strongly land-based power like Austria : they don't see their future in the sea.

so, if we suppose what I said to be true, what could be the criterias used ?

If they're willing to fund these men's expeditions, I don't see why they wouldn't/shouldn't be able to.

I don't see Columbus refusing Ottoman funding because they can access the spices overland (he might be refusing because of religious circumstances, but that's a different matter)
Or the Ottomans could RP tales of woe and destruction, and Persians that block their caravans, so that they, too, need to go overseas.

I see no reason why they should not be able to fund expeditions. They might have a worse chance with the explorers because of a lack of colonial tradition
(see mention of modifiers) but I don't think you can say "Austria may not bid on explorers".