Ah, so I underestimated Frost (a dangerous practice, I'm sure). It wasn't her that ordered Lincoln's death. Interesting. Also interesting to learn the Nemor's made offers and it's Frost, not he, who won't deal.
Vann
Vann
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Presuming Temic speaks the truth of course... though it would take a brave man to scheme against Frost. And if he is telling the truth - trust the plebs they have hired to make a mess of things 
It appears Makhearne is right to distrust Nemor.
It appears Makhearne is right to distrust Nemor.
Yeah, with their selection criteria, I imagine the line of henchmen for hire from Blazing Saddles...
Vann
Vann
Our heroes need to make a deal with Pike.
Frost seems to imply that it is possible to go home, in a physical sense if not a practical sense. But of course it looks like she would rather just shoot Nemor.
Frost seems to imply that it is possible to go home, in a physical sense if not a practical sense. But of course it looks like she would rather just shoot Nemor.
After the worst of the Panic of 1857 had passed there remained a set of interlinked problems that would have to be solved before economic recovery could begin. This crisis had been one of unprecedented size, in the real value of securities affected and in the international scope of the collapse. Other past failures of business or finance might have had a limited cooling effect on neighboring nations but this one had begun in America, toppled titans in Britain, stopped industries in France, shut down construction in Russia and stalled investment in Italy. Previous panics or ‘bubbles’ had affected a single business type or class, but in 1857 the soft market for railroad securities had grown tentacles to strangle banks and thereby stifled or killed outright all sorts of enterprises, from Mid-Western farms to Boston mills, from Birmingham smelters and foundries to French vintners and Austrian coiners. It was in size and scope an entirely new animal and the remedies of the past were proving insufficient to tame it.
Even after a limited recovery had begun the markets remained nervous and soft. Particularly in the United States, industries, mines and farms had over-expanded, making goods and commodities abundant and depressing their prices. Railway construction had slowed, though by any non-American standard it would still be said to be proceeding at an incredible rate. This railway construction could have provided the spark to re-ignite the faltering economies of the industrial nations, since railroad construction demands enormous quantities of shovels, picks, wheel-barrows, spikes, rails, sledges, horses, locomotives, bridging timber, nails, and rolling stock of all sorts, some of which would have had to be imported from Britain. Add to this the wages paid to the thousands of laborers, which were spent on a variety of goods and services from food, beer and liquor to clothing, books and ‘loose women’ and it can be seen that the financial consequences were potentially large. Heavy investment in railroads, backed by state and federal land grants, could be the boost required to restart the economic engine.
But the markets remained soft, and wages and prices depressed, for several reasons. One was the uncertainty of financial backing. Idle mills in Europe and New England meant low prices for staple crops like hemp, rice and cotton whose sale accounted for a large percentage of US export sales. Idle production and a glut of commodities slowed trade, and exports, which reduced government revenues and caused financiers to hold onto their money or seek safe havens for it. And the one commodity most in demand for railroad construction – iron – could not be supplied. The shovels and hammers, spikes and shoe-plates and rails, locomotive boilers and railcar wheels required by the railroads were all made of iron. American iron production was as yet small, local and generally inefficient, and the capital investment needed for expansion and consolidation was now lacking. Foreign iron production was almost entirely spoken for: France was building her own railroads, modernizing her army and planning to lay down a fleet of ironclads, and British iron-making was partially shut down as the conversion to the Bessemer steel process got into full swing.
To help spur the American iron industry the hated tariffs on iron and steel wares were revived, but in the short term this produced only shortages and high prices, further depressing attempt to get the economy back in motion. As a consequence the two additional ‘Monitor’ types, which had been laid down in the New Year to a much improved design, were left on the stocks for months without armor or machinery.
Even after a limited recovery had begun the markets remained nervous and soft. Particularly in the United States, industries, mines and farms had over-expanded, making goods and commodities abundant and depressing their prices. Railway construction had slowed, though by any non-American standard it would still be said to be proceeding at an incredible rate. This railway construction could have provided the spark to re-ignite the faltering economies of the industrial nations, since railroad construction demands enormous quantities of shovels, picks, wheel-barrows, spikes, rails, sledges, horses, locomotives, bridging timber, nails, and rolling stock of all sorts, some of which would have had to be imported from Britain. Add to this the wages paid to the thousands of laborers, which were spent on a variety of goods and services from food, beer and liquor to clothing, books and ‘loose women’ and it can be seen that the financial consequences were potentially large. Heavy investment in railroads, backed by state and federal land grants, could be the boost required to restart the economic engine.
But the markets remained soft, and wages and prices depressed, for several reasons. One was the uncertainty of financial backing. Idle mills in Europe and New England meant low prices for staple crops like hemp, rice and cotton whose sale accounted for a large percentage of US export sales. Idle production and a glut of commodities slowed trade, and exports, which reduced government revenues and caused financiers to hold onto their money or seek safe havens for it. And the one commodity most in demand for railroad construction – iron – could not be supplied. The shovels and hammers, spikes and shoe-plates and rails, locomotive boilers and railcar wheels required by the railroads were all made of iron. American iron production was as yet small, local and generally inefficient, and the capital investment needed for expansion and consolidation was now lacking. Foreign iron production was almost entirely spoken for: France was building her own railroads, modernizing her army and planning to lay down a fleet of ironclads, and British iron-making was partially shut down as the conversion to the Bessemer steel process got into full swing.
To help spur the American iron industry the hated tariffs on iron and steel wares were revived, but in the short term this produced only shortages and high prices, further depressing attempt to get the economy back in motion. As a consequence the two additional ‘Monitor’ types, which had been laid down in the New Year to a much improved design, were left on the stocks for months without armor or machinery.
Vann the Red - I think perhaps you overestimated her. She is only one woman, constrained to work through men. Some of those men have a mind of their own... so to speak.
stnylan - yes, assuming Temic doesn't have an agenda of his own. I found it amusing that Messoune would be explaining to Frost that they had been hiring psychopaths... rather like himself. And her.
Vann the Red - Quantrill is no prize, unless you just need things destroyed and people killed. He and 'Bloody Bill' Anderson wrecked and burned their way through the Civil War and spawned the James Gang (and others) after.
J. Passepartout - Making adeal with Pike sounds like an excellent idea, and one I hadn't thought of. I'll see where that goes...
She really can't keep stringing Nemor along and she doesn't want to add him to her enemies' side. So a bullet - if she can find him - is probably her best solution.
Her assumption is that shutting down her jammer would enable someone from the Knights' civilization to reach them, and she doesn't want that. There is always the chance that the initial hypothesis was right and the jammer cut the Knights' world off from all the others, which would be... bad.
stnylan - yes, assuming Temic doesn't have an agenda of his own. I found it amusing that Messoune would be explaining to Frost that they had been hiring psychopaths... rather like himself. And her.
Vann the Red - Quantrill is no prize, unless you just need things destroyed and people killed. He and 'Bloody Bill' Anderson wrecked and burned their way through the Civil War and spawned the James Gang (and others) after.
J. Passepartout - Making adeal with Pike sounds like an excellent idea, and one I hadn't thought of. I'll see where that goes...
She really can't keep stringing Nemor along and she doesn't want to add him to her enemies' side. So a bullet - if she can find him - is probably her best solution.
Her assumption is that shutting down her jammer would enable someone from the Knights' civilization to reach them, and she doesn't want that. There is always the chance that the initial hypothesis was right and the jammer cut the Knights' world off from all the others, which would be... bad.
I found the description of Masonic recruitment policies to be fascinating. Frost isn’t omnipotent even at the top of her game, and her unreliable subordinates might well prove to be a critical chink in her armor.
Economic troubles help Frost. Angry people, so forth.
It would be interesting, if the jamming did indeed cut off all Knightly access, to look at some of the other timelines.
It would be interesting, if the jamming did indeed cut off all Knightly access, to look at some of the other timelines.
“We’ve been recruiting men of violence into the secret lodge, men without conscience or compunction. The sort of men who will burn, wreck and kill for the pleasure of it: psychopaths, in short. You cannot expect such men to sit quietly waiting for orders."
I agree you can’t hire men of ‘action’ and expect them to sit idly by without an occasional hiccup of violence. The first rule in hiring psychopaths is for Gods sake keep them occupied or let's face it boys will be boys. I’m a bit surprised that Frost wouldn’t already know that and have taken measures to occupy them but then again maybe she doesn’t have the ability to do that? Still this was an interesting post in that it showed that Frost and Temic no matter how ‘superior’ are not in complete control of even the people they hire. Are they in danger of becoming the man who rode on the back of a tiger and wanted to get off but didn’t know how to safely do it? Nah probably not. It must be very frustrating for them to have to deal with this mess. It almost creates a sympathetic view of the poor souls striving against the constant mistakes and blunders of their underlings. Trying to bring sanity and order to the chaos of this world only to have it ruined by the adventures of their hired loose cannons of violence and mayhem. Sounds like fun come to think about it.
I’m not surprised about Nemor. He struck me as pragmatic and it would follow that he would at least test the waters with his big toe to see if he had a hope of swimming home. Still I think he knows there are sharks lurking nearby and he won’t do anything stupid. It’s good to see that like any sea going turtle he’s pulled his head into his shell at the first hint of danger. All right enough of this nautical nonsense.
Joe
I agree you can’t hire men of ‘action’ and expect them to sit idly by without an occasional hiccup of violence. The first rule in hiring psychopaths is for Gods sake keep them occupied or let's face it boys will be boys. I’m a bit surprised that Frost wouldn’t already know that and have taken measures to occupy them but then again maybe she doesn’t have the ability to do that? Still this was an interesting post in that it showed that Frost and Temic no matter how ‘superior’ are not in complete control of even the people they hire. Are they in danger of becoming the man who rode on the back of a tiger and wanted to get off but didn’t know how to safely do it? Nah probably not. It must be very frustrating for them to have to deal with this mess. It almost creates a sympathetic view of the poor souls striving against the constant mistakes and blunders of their underlings. Trying to bring sanity and order to the chaos of this world only to have it ruined by the adventures of their hired loose cannons of violence and mayhem. Sounds like fun come to think about it.
I’m not surprised about Nemor. He struck me as pragmatic and it would follow that he would at least test the waters with his big toe to see if he had a hope of swimming home. Still I think he knows there are sharks lurking nearby and he won’t do anything stupid. It’s good to see that like any sea going turtle he’s pulled his head into his shell at the first hint of danger. All right enough of this nautical nonsense.
Joe
Director: After the worst of the Panic of 1857 had passed there remained a set of interlinked problems...
hmmm. it seems that this time-line has a much more severe "panic" of 1857...
btw, IIRC our time-line panic of 1857 was caused by the loss of a certain gold-laden ship off the coast of the Carolinas in a hurricane: SS Central America, with 30,000 pounds of gold.
Director: ...To help spur the American iron industry the hated tariffs on iron and steel wares were revived, but in the short term this produced only shortages and high prices, further depressing attempt to get the economy back in motion...
nasty short term ramifications, those are ! !
oh, how long before the Americans put together the Bessemer process of making iron ? ?
magnificent updates ! !
i really liked the 'demise' of Frost and Temic ! !
hmmm. it seems that this time-line has a much more severe "panic" of 1857...
btw, IIRC our time-line panic of 1857 was caused by the loss of a certain gold-laden ship off the coast of the Carolinas in a hurricane: SS Central America, with 30,000 pounds of gold.
Director: ...To help spur the American iron industry the hated tariffs on iron and steel wares were revived, but in the short term this produced only shortages and high prices, further depressing attempt to get the economy back in motion...
nasty short term ramifications, those are ! !
oh, how long before the Americans put together the Bessemer process of making iron ? ?
magnificent updates ! !
i really liked the 'demise' of Frost and Temic ! !
To all - I've been wrestling with some problems up the line in 1904. Um... it is a bit late to ask this, since I have already heavily modded the events we are soon to see, but does anyone mind my tinkering with some alliance/war events?
Since you've all been reading, you get... another update!
stnylan - too true, and 1857 was a doozy. The question is, who benefits? I think the Republicans because they haven't been in charge.
I'm off work Tues & Thurs of next week and could use some advice on British policies and 'feeling'. If you could PM me, I'd appreciate it.
Fulcrumvale - I can just see *insert mad scientist/tyrant of your choice* cackling, "It's so hard to get good help these days!"
J. Passepartout - one of the effects of this depression is low prices for cotton which has made a lot of Southern planters very nervous. Most of them (like modern farmers) stay heavily in debt. The expansion of slavery seems to be trumping economic issues, but there is no doubt the economic slump will affect the election.
I've mentioned a few of the other timelines, but... did you have something in mind?
Storey - I think Frost does know what kind of men she's hired, but she does need Temic to reassure her by reminding her.
I think our 'evil' team expected their 'brats' to stay in Kansas. Having them show up in Illinois must have been a surprise.
Yeah... Nemor wants to know how the wind is blowing. He is a careful old sea dog... and he has had a Frost experience in his past also.
GhostWriter - It is so good to hear from you! Coz1 passed along your PM. I'm glad you liked the post where Frost and Messoune 'go away'. I had a lot of fun with that one. Thank you for the idea!
The Panic of '57 had been on-again, off-again for a month before the 'Central America' sank with millions in California gold (lately recovered, by the way). The loss of the gold set off a full-scale stampede and turned a bad month into a four-year depression.
Since you've all been reading, you get... another update!
stnylan - too true, and 1857 was a doozy. The question is, who benefits? I think the Republicans because they haven't been in charge.
I'm off work Tues & Thurs of next week and could use some advice on British policies and 'feeling'. If you could PM me, I'd appreciate it.
Fulcrumvale - I can just see *insert mad scientist/tyrant of your choice* cackling, "It's so hard to get good help these days!"
J. Passepartout - one of the effects of this depression is low prices for cotton which has made a lot of Southern planters very nervous. Most of them (like modern farmers) stay heavily in debt. The expansion of slavery seems to be trumping economic issues, but there is no doubt the economic slump will affect the election.
I've mentioned a few of the other timelines, but... did you have something in mind?
Storey - I think Frost does know what kind of men she's hired, but she does need Temic to reassure her by reminding her.
I think our 'evil' team expected their 'brats' to stay in Kansas. Having them show up in Illinois must have been a surprise.
Yeah... Nemor wants to know how the wind is blowing. He is a careful old sea dog... and he has had a Frost experience in his past also.
GhostWriter - It is so good to hear from you! Coz1 passed along your PM. I'm glad you liked the post where Frost and Messoune 'go away'. I had a lot of fun with that one. Thank you for the idea!
The Panic of '57 had been on-again, off-again for a month before the 'Central America' sank with millions in California gold (lately recovered, by the way). The loss of the gold set off a full-scale stampede and turned a bad month into a four-year depression.
After his election to a term of his own, President Bright had rearranged his Cabinet. The most important vacated posts were the Departments of State, War, and Justice. Howell Cobb of Georgia would take over the Department of State from an embittered James Buchanan while Kentuckian John C Breckenridge succeeded the ailing Jefferson Davis at the War Department and another Kentuckian, Joseph Holt, became Attorney General. Under Breckenridge the design of a breech-loading rifle would be pressed forward and the other reforms of the Davis administration carried on to solid results. In contrast, Cobb’s tenure at State would be one of storm and turmoil. In part this was due to the invasion of Brunei in 1858, which was unpopular both at home and abroad, but which having been done could not be undone. Cobb’s inexperience with administration was another factor, for he had been a Congressman and a Senator but never a Secretary or a Governor. But the real fuel for the fire was provided in 1859 by the situation in Cuba, and the fuse was set by the ambassadors to Spain, France and Great Britain, all hold-overs from the Pierce administration.
Wedged as it is in the entrance to the Caribbean Sea between the peninsulas of Florida and Yucatan the island of Cuba dominates the entrances to that body of water, covering all approaches to the American cities of the Gulf Coast. In addition to the value of location, the island itself is fertile and rich, its fields then given over to production of ‘sweet gold’, sugar cane. For centuries it was the most profitable colony in the world but its master, Spain, had become distracted and feeble, and as other sources of sugar had been developed the island’s relative value had declined.
Americans had made numerous attempts to purchase the island, at least since the Jefferson administration, but Spain had rejected each proposal. Undeterred by repeated rebuffs, over the years numerous Americans had taken up arms and attempted to wrest the island from Spanish control by force. Even when coupled with the efforts of Cuban revolutionaries, these attempts had all failed, their sole result the embitterment of Spain’s relations with the United States.
Already weighted down with ‘Bleeding Kansas’, the Scott and Lemmon verdicts, a new Republican strength in Congress and the after-effects of the Panic of 1857, the Bright administration was of no mind to take up a foreign adventure. But Southern Senators and Congressmen insisted; ‘You owe your election to our votes,’ they chanted, ‘and we must have Cuba!’ Over the objections of several Cabinet members, including the Attorney General, the Bright administration sent word through its legation in Madrid that the United States would be willing to purchase the island. “Never!” was the summation of the reply, and there the matter might have rested had not fate intervened.
Spain’s senior minister to the United States, Jose Manuel de Castelar, had come into possession of an astounding document in May of 1859 and wasted no time in passing it to the American newspapers. The identity of the person who passed it along is unknown but it was widely assumed at the time that Buchanan used the opportunity to embarrass the Bright administration. As the former Secretary of State was on the closest terms with the three ministers who signed the document, he certainly had opportunity, means and motive. This missive, signed by the ministers accredited to the governments of Great Britain, France, and Spain, demanded the cession of Cuba to the United States. The United States would be justified in any action, it said, from armed invasion to support of insurgents and filibustiers, if Spain would not sell the island.
The British Foreign Secretary remarked only that it was ‘unusual, and intemperate, but did not directly concern the interests of HM government’. The French minister in Washington lodged a formal protest and declared French support for Spanish interests in the island while the French minister in Madrid urged Spain to sell. And the American press simply erupted: in the North, headlines declared there could be no giving in to the men who wished to extend the ‘slave empire’, and in the South the newspapers shouted for war with Spain. Given that the Bright administration chose to quietly accept the Spanish refusal of purchase and made no preparation for war, the matter might well have ended there. But again, fate – and American arrogance – took a hand.
On the 30th of May the fast Spanish steamer ‘Pluton’ came upon a small steamship unloading cargo off the rough northern coast of Oriente province, not far from Puerto Padre. When challenged by signal flag the steamer fled, pursued by the ‘Pluton’, which proved the faster ship. When it was evident she could not flee the ‘Pluton’ put a shot across her bow and sent a boatload of sailors to investigate. The steamer proved to be the ‘Golden Eagle’, of Tampa, with impeccable American papers, an empty cargo hold and an extensive passenger list. Despite the indignant protests of her captain, the ‘Golden Eagle’ was confiscated for violation of Spanish territorial waters and escorted back to the beach. There a landing party found cases of arms and ammunition and military supplies of all sorts. The ‘Golden Eagle’ was then sailed by a prize crew to Santiago, where the commanding general put the crew and passengers on trial for piracy and aiding revolutionaries, found them all guilty and had hung more than two dozen before the Governor General in Havana could intervene.
Despite the obvious illegal nature of their activities and Spain’s clear right under international law to try them, the American public was deeply affected by the ‘Golden Eagle’ incident. In the North it was taken as evidence that the South would keep to no agreement and would press to extend slavery even at the price of an unjust war. South of the Mason-Dixon line the incident was branded an ‘atrocity’ and held as proof that American rule over Cuba was an urgent necessity. In this crisis the Bright administration attempted to walk a middle course, issuing a protest to the government of Spain and accepting the apology and reparations that were offered. Southern fury at Spain was thus diverted to the President, who was branded weak and spineless, and his actions labeled disloyalty and treachery.
With the New Year of 1860, the Bright administration thus found itself bereft of any but the thinnest support. Northern Democrats could not support the policies that tilted so strongly toward the South while Southern Democrats were incensed that the administration had done so little to aid their cause. The administration’s one solid accomplishment in foreign policy was a successful technical exchange mission to Russia in the fall of 1859, and as that did not touch on the slavery question it was entirely disregarded.
Wedged as it is in the entrance to the Caribbean Sea between the peninsulas of Florida and Yucatan the island of Cuba dominates the entrances to that body of water, covering all approaches to the American cities of the Gulf Coast. In addition to the value of location, the island itself is fertile and rich, its fields then given over to production of ‘sweet gold’, sugar cane. For centuries it was the most profitable colony in the world but its master, Spain, had become distracted and feeble, and as other sources of sugar had been developed the island’s relative value had declined.
Americans had made numerous attempts to purchase the island, at least since the Jefferson administration, but Spain had rejected each proposal. Undeterred by repeated rebuffs, over the years numerous Americans had taken up arms and attempted to wrest the island from Spanish control by force. Even when coupled with the efforts of Cuban revolutionaries, these attempts had all failed, their sole result the embitterment of Spain’s relations with the United States.
Already weighted down with ‘Bleeding Kansas’, the Scott and Lemmon verdicts, a new Republican strength in Congress and the after-effects of the Panic of 1857, the Bright administration was of no mind to take up a foreign adventure. But Southern Senators and Congressmen insisted; ‘You owe your election to our votes,’ they chanted, ‘and we must have Cuba!’ Over the objections of several Cabinet members, including the Attorney General, the Bright administration sent word through its legation in Madrid that the United States would be willing to purchase the island. “Never!” was the summation of the reply, and there the matter might have rested had not fate intervened.
Spain’s senior minister to the United States, Jose Manuel de Castelar, had come into possession of an astounding document in May of 1859 and wasted no time in passing it to the American newspapers. The identity of the person who passed it along is unknown but it was widely assumed at the time that Buchanan used the opportunity to embarrass the Bright administration. As the former Secretary of State was on the closest terms with the three ministers who signed the document, he certainly had opportunity, means and motive. This missive, signed by the ministers accredited to the governments of Great Britain, France, and Spain, demanded the cession of Cuba to the United States. The United States would be justified in any action, it said, from armed invasion to support of insurgents and filibustiers, if Spain would not sell the island.
The British Foreign Secretary remarked only that it was ‘unusual, and intemperate, but did not directly concern the interests of HM government’. The French minister in Washington lodged a formal protest and declared French support for Spanish interests in the island while the French minister in Madrid urged Spain to sell. And the American press simply erupted: in the North, headlines declared there could be no giving in to the men who wished to extend the ‘slave empire’, and in the South the newspapers shouted for war with Spain. Given that the Bright administration chose to quietly accept the Spanish refusal of purchase and made no preparation for war, the matter might well have ended there. But again, fate – and American arrogance – took a hand.
On the 30th of May the fast Spanish steamer ‘Pluton’ came upon a small steamship unloading cargo off the rough northern coast of Oriente province, not far from Puerto Padre. When challenged by signal flag the steamer fled, pursued by the ‘Pluton’, which proved the faster ship. When it was evident she could not flee the ‘Pluton’ put a shot across her bow and sent a boatload of sailors to investigate. The steamer proved to be the ‘Golden Eagle’, of Tampa, with impeccable American papers, an empty cargo hold and an extensive passenger list. Despite the indignant protests of her captain, the ‘Golden Eagle’ was confiscated for violation of Spanish territorial waters and escorted back to the beach. There a landing party found cases of arms and ammunition and military supplies of all sorts. The ‘Golden Eagle’ was then sailed by a prize crew to Santiago, where the commanding general put the crew and passengers on trial for piracy and aiding revolutionaries, found them all guilty and had hung more than two dozen before the Governor General in Havana could intervene.
Despite the obvious illegal nature of their activities and Spain’s clear right under international law to try them, the American public was deeply affected by the ‘Golden Eagle’ incident. In the North it was taken as evidence that the South would keep to no agreement and would press to extend slavery even at the price of an unjust war. South of the Mason-Dixon line the incident was branded an ‘atrocity’ and held as proof that American rule over Cuba was an urgent necessity. In this crisis the Bright administration attempted to walk a middle course, issuing a protest to the government of Spain and accepting the apology and reparations that were offered. Southern fury at Spain was thus diverted to the President, who was branded weak and spineless, and his actions labeled disloyalty and treachery.
With the New Year of 1860, the Bright administration thus found itself bereft of any but the thinnest support. Northern Democrats could not support the policies that tilted so strongly toward the South while Southern Democrats were incensed that the administration had done so little to aid their cause. The administration’s one solid accomplishment in foreign policy was a successful technical exchange mission to Russia in the fall of 1859, and as that did not touch on the slavery question it was entirely disregarded.
It never ceases to amuse me how quickly the citizens of any given nation will insist on the trial of foreign nationals in their own court yet will become incensed should their nationals be tried in a foreign court.
And the tensions continue to ratchet. It seems your USA has lost any reservations about empire faster than even the real one.
Vann
And the tensions continue to ratchet. It seems your USA has lost any reservations about empire faster than even the real one.
Vann
This was a quick rush to fight. I had expected the country to continue to feast on small pickings.
Not specifically; are you considering?
Not specifically; are you considering?
It feels as if there are a number of small-ish elements that by themselves might be manageable, or at the very least certainly not be disastrous. But together...
Lots going on lately. The issue with Frost and her henchmen has been well covered. I too am not shocked to see men with time on their hands fill it with idle pleasures. Say...an attempt at a politicians life.
And that the economy is still in the downturn, there is much disaffection. And so too with Bright. Not only does he have the inevitable clash over slavery to look forward to, but he'll be well pressed to gain a second term in his own right what with war with Spain threatening and surely the south's desire to take Cuba for a slave holding colony/province. In short, he has his hands full and I do not envy him his post.
And that the economy is still in the downturn, there is much disaffection. And so too with Bright. Not only does he have the inevitable clash over slavery to look forward to, but he'll be well pressed to gain a second term in his own right what with war with Spain threatening and surely the south's desire to take Cuba for a slave holding colony/province. In short, he has his hands full and I do not envy him his post.
Vann the Red - Americans don't have a monopoly on outrage or hypocrisy but we don't always look at the other side of the question either. If Spaniards had been caught landing men and arms to support a Seminole rebellion in Florida the US would have probably gone to war...
J. Passepartout - the next post covers 1859 and the next 1860 including the election. So things are indeed moving quickly. Rather like a galloping rhino on ice some sort of crash is inevitable now.
I'll continue to use snapshots of other timelines as occasional material, but since the viewpoint characters are confined to this timeline I doubt I will do any deep looks at the others. That is highly dependent on demand and need, however.
stnylan - Yes, exactly. The situation is possibly more critical here than in our own timeline. Where Buchanan was a 'drifter', not tilting far to either side, Bright is actively trying to conciliate the South. His actions, plus the economy, olus events plus chance... all add up to a nasty sum of vectors. What he does for the South angers only them because he did not do more.
Fulcrumvale - The only thing that would really mollify the South would be an outlawing of abolitionism and the Republican Party, and a permanent placement of authority in Southern hands... in other words, a coup. The Southern minority could probably get a compromise - to preserve slavery in the states where it currently exists, in exchange for an absolute bar on its further extension. But these men have run things for so long they are arrogant, and they will accept nothing less than total control.
coz1 - Yeah, and there's another update coming up.
There's no doubt Bright will seek a second full term, and there aren't many Democrats with the national reputation to run against him: Douglas, Buchanan, Breckenridge... any others? The Republican team is deep with talent: Seward, Chase, Fremont, Cameron, Lincoln. And the recent series of events is not likely to make a voter mark his ballot for any reason but slavery.
You are right - it is going to be interesting.
To all - the trade mission mentioned in the last post was a tech trade with Russia. I sent breechloading rifles, cheap iron, inorganic chemistry and iron artillery and got late class theory, private money bill printing, raider group doctrine and naval plans.
The 'iron shortage' mentioned above was real. Domestic production couldn't keep up, so I tried 'doing without' to make my caps build another steel mill. Didn't work, so later I tried buying mass quantities. Eventually I did get steel, but that story is for later.
J. Passepartout - the next post covers 1859 and the next 1860 including the election. So things are indeed moving quickly. Rather like a galloping rhino on ice
some sort of crash is inevitable now.I'll continue to use snapshots of other timelines as occasional material, but since the viewpoint characters are confined to this timeline I doubt I will do any deep looks at the others. That is highly dependent on demand and need, however.
stnylan - Yes, exactly. The situation is possibly more critical here than in our own timeline. Where Buchanan was a 'drifter', not tilting far to either side, Bright is actively trying to conciliate the South. His actions, plus the economy, olus events plus chance... all add up to a nasty sum of vectors. What he does for the South angers only them because he did not do more.
Fulcrumvale - The only thing that would really mollify the South would be an outlawing of abolitionism and the Republican Party, and a permanent placement of authority in Southern hands... in other words, a coup. The Southern minority could probably get a compromise - to preserve slavery in the states where it currently exists, in exchange for an absolute bar on its further extension. But these men have run things for so long they are arrogant, and they will accept nothing less than total control.
coz1 - Yeah, and there's another update coming up.
There's no doubt Bright will seek a second full term, and there aren't many Democrats with the national reputation to run against him: Douglas, Buchanan, Breckenridge... any others? The Republican team is deep with talent: Seward, Chase, Fremont, Cameron, Lincoln. And the recent series of events is not likely to make a voter mark his ballot for any reason but slavery.
You are right - it is going to be interesting.
To all - the trade mission mentioned in the last post was a tech trade with Russia. I sent breechloading rifles, cheap iron, inorganic chemistry and iron artillery and got late class theory, private money bill printing, raider group doctrine and naval plans.
The 'iron shortage' mentioned above was real. Domestic production couldn't keep up, so I tried 'doing without' to make my caps build another steel mill. Didn't work, so later I tried buying mass quantities. Eventually I did get steel, but that story is for later.
Lincoln was at home, sprawled on the floor with his boys, wrestling with them and with a decision whose consequences could change his life forever. Outside the windows a light dusting of snow had fallen; unusual for October but not so peculiar as to excite much comment in Springfield, Illinois, in the fallof 1859. The fireplaces and coal stoves were busily pouring out warmth, for while Lincoln was not exactly wealthy his legal career had prospered these past years and he was comfortably well-to-do, certainly rich enough that his family could afford a bit of extra coal.
On the tiny desk in the corner lay a letter, unanswered. Like its predecessor it offered Lincoln a speaking engagement in Brooklyn, in March of 1860, as one of a series of speeches by prominent Republicans. The lecture series had been organized by opponents of William H Seward, the prominent former Senator from and Governor of New York who was the presumed Republican nominee for the Presidency in 1860. Francis Preston Blair would lead off, Cassius Marcellus Clay would speak. Large crowds were expected, and for that reason the fee was comfortably large. Lincoln had no quarrel with Seward – the two men had only casual knowledge of each other – but the chance to speak on a national stage in the nation’s largest city was something he had wanted for many years.
Lincoln had dithered, leaving the first letter unanswered, but this one had come, phrased even more strongly. Clearly the organizers of the event wanted Lincoln… but did Lincoln want them? Public speaking had never appealed to him, but the prospect of speaking in Henry Ward Beecher’s church undoubtedly was attractive. Beecher was one of the country’s most prominent abolitionists, a powerful speaker and deep thinker as well as leader of a congregation of influential New Yorkers. His sister, Harriet Beecher Denton, had written the hugely popular anti-slavery novel ‘Life Among the Lowly’, also known as ‘Uncle Tom’s Cabin’ for the setting of the first chapter. For this setting and audience Lincoln would have to prepare something very different from his usual stump speech, different even from the material he had used in the debates with Douglas. This would have to be closely reasoned, thoroughly grounded, meticulously prepared… and deeply moving. To have a chance at playing a part on the national scene he needed the national reputation that a great speech, delivered before a New York audience and covered by the New York newspapers, could give. If he went to New York he could make that reputation – but only if the speech was vigorously applauded, and this when his competition would be numbered among the greatest men the Republican Party had yet produced.
Over the next week Lincoln exchanged telegrams with his allies in New York. They responded that they hoped he would accept the invitation. He asked what they would recommend he say. The response was simple: he should address slavery and outline the Republican – the Lincoln – position on the institution; as to specifics they were confident he needed no guidance. Certainly this must have eased his fears that he was being manipulated or used as a figurehead. After the turn of the year into 1860, Lincoln at last accepted the offer, pinning down the date to Monday night, February 27th of 1860, giving Lincoln the last speech of the series. With his course set, Lincoln sat down to prepare for the speech the way he would have prepared for an important legal case, by thorough and meticulous research. He devoured every scrap of information he could find in reference to what the Founding Fathers had said, and done, and how they had voted on issues such as the Northwest Ordinance.
At last he boarded an Illinois Central train and departed for Chicago, the first stop on his journey to New York. At that city he found a private rail car had been assigned to his use, once the property of William Morrison and now set aside for his heirs. In quiet comfort he traveled the water-level route across Ohio and western New York, past the booming cities of Cleveland, Buffalo and Rochester. At Albany the rails turned south and ran along the bluffs above the Hudson River, descending at last to the mighty port of New York at the river’s mouth. There he found his rooms reserved by an alliance of the New York Telegraph and the organizers of the lecture series.
A wedding at the church had forced a last minute change of venue to the larger Great Hall of Peter Cooper’s Union School. A tinkerer, a self-made millionaire and the builder of the first American steam locomotive, Cooper intended his school to provide a free education for every student. The Great Hall was newly completed, and was one of the largest and best facilities in the city. Despite the snowy streets the hall was packed by over 1500 attendees, including prominent people such as William Cullen Bryant of the Evening Post, Horace Greeley of the Telegraph, George Putnam the publisher, Harris Denton and his wife Harriet Beecher Denton. At last the frontier lawyer was introduced by Bryant and took his place at the lectern. Here, at long last, was the opportunity of the lifetime, the full attention of the eyes and ears of New York, and by extension the United States and the world.
He did not begin well. His movements were stiff and awkward, his voice oddly high-pitched and querulous. But as the minutes went by and he warmed to the work, his hands ceased to clench and his voice deepened to a mellow tenor. His audience was carried along by his reasoning, as - in moderate, temperate but not conciliatory language - he laid out in his first section the Republican core beliefs, showing that a clear majority of the Founding Fathers had opposed slavery or supported the limitation of it. In the second part he addressed a few words to the Southern people, and in clear, concise and candid prose turned the most common talking points of the Southern Democrats back upon themselves.
“But you say you are conservative - eminently conservative - while we are revolutionary, destructive, or something of the sort. What is conservatism? Is it not adherence to the old and tried, against the new and untried? We stick to, contend for, the identical old policy on the point in controversy which was adopted by ‘our fathers who framed the Government under which we live;’ while you with one accord reject, and scout, and spit upon that old policy, and insist upon substituting something new. True, you disagree among yourselves as to what that substitute shall be. You are divided on new propositions and plans, but you are unanimous in rejecting and denouncing the old policy of the fathers. Some of you are for reviving the foreign slave trade; some for a Congressional Slave-Code for the Territories; some for Congress forbidding the Territories to prohibit Slavery within their limits; some for maintaining Slavery in the Territories through the judiciary; some for the ‘gur-reat pur-rinciple’ that ‘if one man would enslave another, no third man should object,’ fantastically called ‘Popular Sovereignty;’ but never a man among you is in favor of federal prohibition of slavery in federal territories, according to the practice of ‘our fathers who framed the Government under which we live.’ Not one of all your various plans can show a precedent or an advocate in the century within which our Government originated. Consider, then, whether your claim of conservatism for yourselves, and your charge or destructiveness against us, are based on the most clear and stable foundations.”
In the third part he addressed his remarks to Republicans, advising them on the formidable task of confronting and communicating with the men of the South:
“…what will convince them? This, and this only: cease to call slavery wrong, and join them in calling it right. And this must be done thoroughly - done in acts as well as in words. Silence will not be tolerated - we must place ourselves avowedly with them. Senator Douglas' new sedition law must be enacted and enforced, suppressing all declarations that slavery is wrong, whether made in politics, in presses, in pulpits, or in private. We must arrest and return their fugitive slaves with greedy pleasure. We must pull down our Free State constitutions. The whole atmosphere must be disinfected from all taint of opposition to slavery, before they will cease to believe that all their troubles proceed from us.”
His conclusion:
“Neither let us be slandered from our duty by false accusations against us, nor frightened from it by menaces of destruction to the Government nor of dungeons to ourselves. LET US HAVE FAITH THAT RIGHT MAKES MIGHT, AND IN THAT FAITH, LET US, TO THE END, DARE TO DO OUR DUTY AS WE UNDERSTAND IT.”
With one accord the audience rose to their feet and, with applause and stamping and shouts of approval let the Illinois lawyer know he had succeeded perfectly in his aim; to the jury of these New Yorkers he had made his case. Moderate in language as opposed to Seward’s ‘irrepressible conflict’, legalistic in argument and powerful in emotional effect, Lincoln’s simple, short speech would vault him overnight onto the short list of Republican leaders of national stature.
After the thunderous reception of his speech at Cooper Union, offers of additional engagements poured in and Lincoln embarked upon a whirlwind tour of a dozen cities in as many days. The speech was widely reprinted, usually coupled with this formal photograph taken by Matthew Brady. With this Northern exposure, Lincoln’s reputation was firmly established and his name was circulated as a prospective candidate for the Presidency.
On the tiny desk in the corner lay a letter, unanswered. Like its predecessor it offered Lincoln a speaking engagement in Brooklyn, in March of 1860, as one of a series of speeches by prominent Republicans. The lecture series had been organized by opponents of William H Seward, the prominent former Senator from and Governor of New York who was the presumed Republican nominee for the Presidency in 1860. Francis Preston Blair would lead off, Cassius Marcellus Clay would speak. Large crowds were expected, and for that reason the fee was comfortably large. Lincoln had no quarrel with Seward – the two men had only casual knowledge of each other – but the chance to speak on a national stage in the nation’s largest city was something he had wanted for many years.
Lincoln had dithered, leaving the first letter unanswered, but this one had come, phrased even more strongly. Clearly the organizers of the event wanted Lincoln… but did Lincoln want them? Public speaking had never appealed to him, but the prospect of speaking in Henry Ward Beecher’s church undoubtedly was attractive. Beecher was one of the country’s most prominent abolitionists, a powerful speaker and deep thinker as well as leader of a congregation of influential New Yorkers. His sister, Harriet Beecher Denton, had written the hugely popular anti-slavery novel ‘Life Among the Lowly’, also known as ‘Uncle Tom’s Cabin’ for the setting of the first chapter. For this setting and audience Lincoln would have to prepare something very different from his usual stump speech, different even from the material he had used in the debates with Douglas. This would have to be closely reasoned, thoroughly grounded, meticulously prepared… and deeply moving. To have a chance at playing a part on the national scene he needed the national reputation that a great speech, delivered before a New York audience and covered by the New York newspapers, could give. If he went to New York he could make that reputation – but only if the speech was vigorously applauded, and this when his competition would be numbered among the greatest men the Republican Party had yet produced.
Over the next week Lincoln exchanged telegrams with his allies in New York. They responded that they hoped he would accept the invitation. He asked what they would recommend he say. The response was simple: he should address slavery and outline the Republican – the Lincoln – position on the institution; as to specifics they were confident he needed no guidance. Certainly this must have eased his fears that he was being manipulated or used as a figurehead. After the turn of the year into 1860, Lincoln at last accepted the offer, pinning down the date to Monday night, February 27th of 1860, giving Lincoln the last speech of the series. With his course set, Lincoln sat down to prepare for the speech the way he would have prepared for an important legal case, by thorough and meticulous research. He devoured every scrap of information he could find in reference to what the Founding Fathers had said, and done, and how they had voted on issues such as the Northwest Ordinance.
At last he boarded an Illinois Central train and departed for Chicago, the first stop on his journey to New York. At that city he found a private rail car had been assigned to his use, once the property of William Morrison and now set aside for his heirs. In quiet comfort he traveled the water-level route across Ohio and western New York, past the booming cities of Cleveland, Buffalo and Rochester. At Albany the rails turned south and ran along the bluffs above the Hudson River, descending at last to the mighty port of New York at the river’s mouth. There he found his rooms reserved by an alliance of the New York Telegraph and the organizers of the lecture series.
A wedding at the church had forced a last minute change of venue to the larger Great Hall of Peter Cooper’s Union School. A tinkerer, a self-made millionaire and the builder of the first American steam locomotive, Cooper intended his school to provide a free education for every student. The Great Hall was newly completed, and was one of the largest and best facilities in the city. Despite the snowy streets the hall was packed by over 1500 attendees, including prominent people such as William Cullen Bryant of the Evening Post, Horace Greeley of the Telegraph, George Putnam the publisher, Harris Denton and his wife Harriet Beecher Denton. At last the frontier lawyer was introduced by Bryant and took his place at the lectern. Here, at long last, was the opportunity of the lifetime, the full attention of the eyes and ears of New York, and by extension the United States and the world.
He did not begin well. His movements were stiff and awkward, his voice oddly high-pitched and querulous. But as the minutes went by and he warmed to the work, his hands ceased to clench and his voice deepened to a mellow tenor. His audience was carried along by his reasoning, as - in moderate, temperate but not conciliatory language - he laid out in his first section the Republican core beliefs, showing that a clear majority of the Founding Fathers had opposed slavery or supported the limitation of it. In the second part he addressed a few words to the Southern people, and in clear, concise and candid prose turned the most common talking points of the Southern Democrats back upon themselves.
“But you say you are conservative - eminently conservative - while we are revolutionary, destructive, or something of the sort. What is conservatism? Is it not adherence to the old and tried, against the new and untried? We stick to, contend for, the identical old policy on the point in controversy which was adopted by ‘our fathers who framed the Government under which we live;’ while you with one accord reject, and scout, and spit upon that old policy, and insist upon substituting something new. True, you disagree among yourselves as to what that substitute shall be. You are divided on new propositions and plans, but you are unanimous in rejecting and denouncing the old policy of the fathers. Some of you are for reviving the foreign slave trade; some for a Congressional Slave-Code for the Territories; some for Congress forbidding the Territories to prohibit Slavery within their limits; some for maintaining Slavery in the Territories through the judiciary; some for the ‘gur-reat pur-rinciple’ that ‘if one man would enslave another, no third man should object,’ fantastically called ‘Popular Sovereignty;’ but never a man among you is in favor of federal prohibition of slavery in federal territories, according to the practice of ‘our fathers who framed the Government under which we live.’ Not one of all your various plans can show a precedent or an advocate in the century within which our Government originated. Consider, then, whether your claim of conservatism for yourselves, and your charge or destructiveness against us, are based on the most clear and stable foundations.”
In the third part he addressed his remarks to Republicans, advising them on the formidable task of confronting and communicating with the men of the South:
“…what will convince them? This, and this only: cease to call slavery wrong, and join them in calling it right. And this must be done thoroughly - done in acts as well as in words. Silence will not be tolerated - we must place ourselves avowedly with them. Senator Douglas' new sedition law must be enacted and enforced, suppressing all declarations that slavery is wrong, whether made in politics, in presses, in pulpits, or in private. We must arrest and return their fugitive slaves with greedy pleasure. We must pull down our Free State constitutions. The whole atmosphere must be disinfected from all taint of opposition to slavery, before they will cease to believe that all their troubles proceed from us.”
His conclusion:
“Neither let us be slandered from our duty by false accusations against us, nor frightened from it by menaces of destruction to the Government nor of dungeons to ourselves. LET US HAVE FAITH THAT RIGHT MAKES MIGHT, AND IN THAT FAITH, LET US, TO THE END, DARE TO DO OUR DUTY AS WE UNDERSTAND IT.”
With one accord the audience rose to their feet and, with applause and stamping and shouts of approval let the Illinois lawyer know he had succeeded perfectly in his aim; to the jury of these New Yorkers he had made his case. Moderate in language as opposed to Seward’s ‘irrepressible conflict’, legalistic in argument and powerful in emotional effect, Lincoln’s simple, short speech would vault him overnight onto the short list of Republican leaders of national stature.
After the thunderous reception of his speech at Cooper Union, offers of additional engagements poured in and Lincoln embarked upon a whirlwind tour of a dozen cities in as many days. The speech was widely reprinted, usually coupled with this formal photograph taken by Matthew Brady. With this Northern exposure, Lincoln’s reputation was firmly established and his name was circulated as a prospective candidate for the Presidency.
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