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Adding new Stats, Court Positions, Traits

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Kandletaadu said:
:confused:
Sexual orientation does not reduce sperm count. It have absolutely no inpact on fertility ..
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Neither does 'celibacy' or 'depression' or 'raising your children yourself' yet these things all reduce (or can reduce) the 'fertility' of a character in CK1.

The game and its traits are of course abstractions from reality.
 
Kandletaadu said:
:rofl:Not exactly what i ment. Just that trait for now.
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Most of what made CK charming was its flavour - not the ability to "meta game" like EU2/EU3, HOI2/HOI3, Vicky, etc. A homosexual trait is a very big thing for flavour and story telling. As others have pointed out, it was quite an important thing if your ruler was a homosexual, and even others have given examples.

To argue against adding something as simple as a trait because it's not needed can be applied to absolutely most features of CK. I'm pretty sure that's what he's saying.
 
Antoine said:
As stats I would add :

- Beauty / comeliness / sex appeal (?) - something to mesure how physically attractive someone is, influencing happiness and fertility of husband/wife/lover and marriage prestige (difformity traits would mostly affect this stat)

- Personnal stability (?) / constance / willpower / wisdom (? don't find a good name) - something to mesure how stable the personnality of someone is. While some characters should be as unstable as in ck1 and have a lot of changes in their personnalities during all the course of their lives, some others have their personnality forged at the end of childhood and shouldn't change much after that ; instead of being purely random with same chances for all characters, chances to gain new traits once adult would be based on this stat (then it would be an interesting strategic choice to favor stable characters you can trust to remain the same, or unstable characters more likely to improve themselves but also to gain bad traits)
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I like these ideas for new stats! Though I imagine especially the second one could also be represented by a trait like "stable" that would reduce personality changes (and the other one maybe with "exceptionally beautiful" and "ugly" traits).

But still, great suggestions!
 
Veldmaarschalk said:
The homosexual trait should lower the fertility and decrease your piety.
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Probably the most important effect would be the relationship hit with "pious/zealous" ppl, and the boost with... I dunno, other "homosexuals" and maybe if there was a trait "Open-minded" or something.


Also, I would like to have a different relationship category for Friends, and Lovers.

I mean, if I'm Playing as a ruler, I want to know who I'm friends with, and who I'm more with.
 
I thought there already was an homosexual trait in CK. Maybe it was in a mod.
Having an unlimited amount of traits would be good for modders, I can imagine Paradox would do this. Other than that, I think the traits that were already in CK are fine and I wouldn't be fussed if they didn't include any new ones.
I think a more important thing is the impact traits have upon a player, in CK there were a few traits that would change how likely it was to get an event or traits which had particular events written for them. I'd like to see more of this, for example a romantic and aggressive character could get an event which could add a claim to a greater part of the Kingdom one resides in whereas a romantic and lustful character might get an event to defend a lady's honour in a duel.
 
Duckett said:
I thought there already was an homosexual trait in CK. Maybe it was in a mod.
Having an unlimited amount of traits would be good for modders, I can imagine Paradox would do this. Other than that, I think the traits that were already in CK are fine and I wouldn't be fussed if they didn't include any new ones.
I think a more important thing is the impact traits have upon a player, in CK there were a few traits that would change how likely it was to get an event or traits which had particular events written for them. I'd like to see more of this, for example a romantic and aggressive character could get an event which could add a claim to a greater part of the Kingdom one resides in whereas a romantic and lustful character might get an event to defend a lady's honour in a duel.
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It is in my mod, where it has it's own trait. There are a couple of events that deal with it

- your spymaster can reveal that the son of another ruler is gay
- if you find out that your son is gay, you can disinherit him (which gives him the bastard-trait) or 'hush it up'.
 
Kandletaadu said:
I understood very well what he was saying. I don't need your translation on it, but thank you anyway.

The thing is that homosexuality wasn't quite openly admited back then like it is today. Even if anyone was actually a homosexual it was a rumour and no one spoke about it openly, not even to mention anyone publicly admiting being one.
And it would not add a flavour, it would be a special trait like heretic or excommunicated (if not assassinated very soon - executed when in muslim country and propably not at all among pagans).
And i wouldn't compare real game to some mod, there is one that is outright fantasy with it's 'flavour' (and i don't mean the actual fantasy themed one).
I don't mind flavour but you don't add every possible spice to your stew, do you ?
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sorry, but it really seems to me that your gameplay arguments dont hold much water and are instead a cover for some vague homophobia.

homosexuality seems a sensible, historically relevant addition to the list of traits.

but maybe it would be a good idea anyway for all involved to carry on that particular argument somewhere else ?
 
Matchmaker

I'd like to repost my old idea of having a matchmaker - again ;)

Getting a bride for those precious heirs in CK has allways been either time consuming (search court after court), frustrating (accepting substandard brides) or a little like cheating (using a bridefinder program).

So what if it was possible to assign a matchmaker in search of a bride or a husband for the offspring. By 1600 professional matchmakers were common and respected. Earlier in 1442 The Land Acts of the swedish King Kristoffer mentioned matchmakers http://www.tkukoulu.fi/tiimalasi/en/en-lakitekstit.html. Earlier than that matchmaking was a job for the parents or an elder from the family.

So maybe professional matchmaking is not the way to do it, but it would be nice to be able to appoint an elderly member of the court to be the matchmaker of a young man or woman. After a while a popup will present a list of candidates based on the matchmakers diplomacy-skill, intrigue-skill and maybe the amount of money given to travel and gifts. A choice can then be made based on the list, or the list can be discarted. A lord whoose daughter was on the list, but not chosen for marriage, may be disapointed (or worse) - how does he react to that? The matchmaker may even end up being stressed by the fact that his or her lord discarted the work.
 
Kandletaadu said:
I can gladly inform you, that bride finder was already included in Deus Vult expansion. Only batchelor finder is still missing ;)
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I know :p

My proposal covers a court function for better role-playing. The Matchmaker should be one of the courtiers.

The Bridefinder in Deus Vult gives the player a collection of data which is truly unrealistic in both detail and size.
 
Kandletaadu said:
The thing is that homosexuality wasn't quite openly admited back then like it is today. Even if anyone was actually a homosexual it was a rumour and no one spoke about it openly, not even to mention anyone publicly admiting being one.
And it would not add a flavour, it would be a special trait like heretic or excommunicated (if not assassinated very soon - executed when in muslim country and propably not at all among pagans).
And i wouldn't compare real game to some mod, there is one that is outright fantasy with it's 'flavour' (and i don't mean the actual fantasy themed one).
I don't mind flavour but you don't add every possible spice to your stew, do you ?
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Of course it wasn't openly admitted. But that's part of the point. Do you think someone in CK who had the traits: "Cruel, Hostile, Suspicious, Kin Slayer, Flamboyant Schemer" described himself as such? ;)

He can have the homosexual trait, but that doesn't mean he openly states it. It simply means that's what he is. It's not a "special" trait, it would be much more along the lines of the Kinslayer trait I'd think. A very negative trait that could mean the end unless the King is very skilled, which is absolutely possible.

It's not a fantastical element. There are examples of Kings with questioned sexuality and that had big impacts on their reign, and this is within the timespan of CK. I don't understand what you're arguing against since it'd not be anymore of a game changing trait then the celibate or kinslayer trait :confused:.
 
Kandletaadu said:
Actually when i think about it, it's a grand idea. Lets have it in. Yeah, why not.
And now i have some suggestions of myown.
A trait called 'zoophile', or as more popularly known among folk - 'sheep shagger'. Very popular among herders.
Damn, lets have insest back in the game. It's not like it never happened. It would be similar to excommunication trait, only negative prestige hits the hole family, if not the entire dynasty.
And since we don't want to discriminate anyone, lets have 'necrophile' and 'pedophile' in aswell. The first one would clear 'canonised' and 'saint' traits from dead relatives and the latter - let's say you just don't want them near your child and education.
There - some really interesting role play possibilities for you.
I believe there are many more colourful traits out there that could be in the game. If we all would just concentrate and let our imagination fly freely.
;)
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Not funny at all.

If you don't agree with other people's opinion, there is no need to become sarcastic.
 
Kandletaadu said:
Actually when i think about it, it's a grand idea. Lets have it in. Yeah, why not.
And now i have some suggestions of myown.
A trait called 'zoophile', or as more popularly known among folk - 'sheep shagger'. Very popular among herders.
Damn, lets have insest back in the game. It's not like it never happened. It would be similar to excommunication trait, only negative prestige hits the hole family, if not the entire dynasty.
And since we don't want to discriminate anyone, lets have 'necrophile' and 'pedophile' in aswell. The first one would clear 'canonised' and 'saint' traits from dead relatives and the latter - let's say you just don't want them near your child and education.
There - some really interesting role play possibilities for you.
I believe there are many more colourful traits out there that could be in the game. If we all would just concentrate and let our imagination fly freely.
;)
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really showing your true colors, there :(.

anyways, incest was in CK1("inbred") and i would damn well hope it is in CK2, since it was a common occurance in european noble houses (not sure about CK period but definitly a little bit later).
 
Kandletaadu said:
Actually when i think about it, it's a grand idea. Lets have it in. Yeah, why not.
And now i have some suggestions of myown.
A trait called 'zoophile' - causes prestige loss.
Damn, lets have insest back in the game. It's not like it never happened. It would be similar to excommunication trait, only negative prestige hits the hole family, if not the entire dynasty.
And since we don't want to discriminate anyone, lets have 'necrophile' and 'pedophile' in aswell. The first one would clear 'canonised' and 'saint' traits from dead relatives and the latter - let's say you just don't want them near your child and education.
There - some really interesting role play possibilities for you.
I believe there are many more colourful traits out there that could be in the game. If we all would just concentrate and let our imagination fly freely.
;)
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I like that sarcastic comment :D

Fully agree with you.
Giving traits like "homosexual" is totally unnecessary.
Don't get me wrong, i like flavour and roleplaying elements and traits but they should only come with a minimun on gameplay reason...

Who (in terms of gameplay) cares if the Ruler of Duchy xy is homosexual or not?
If he married and produce children anyway, it is as much as important as his favourite colour of horses or he likes pork or chicken ;)
 
Kandletaadu said:
I ment more of the possibility for sisters and brothers to become lovers and sire bastards. It was 'fixed' in later patches.
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That is actually interesting (no, I'm not twisted). This reminds me of Jaime and Cersei Lannister from George R.R. Martin's a "A Song of Ice & Fire". I'll cover up the rest with a code to hide the spoilers of what I'm about to say..

Code: 
** Spoiler: Do not scroll right if you plan on reading it or watching the HBO series ** The ruler of the Seven Kingdoms, King Robert, had a wife named Cersei. But, Cersei was in love with her twin, Jaime. The children of Cersei and Robert were not of Robert's blood, but instead of Cersei and Jaime. The "dirty little secret" eventually becomes known and it throws the entire Seven Kingdoms into a giant civil war.

Anyhow, although it's taboo, it would be somewhat interesting. Wouldn't it be nuts to find out that your heir to the throne, the one with great traits and stats, who has a beautiful wife, and three beautiful children - but those children are not of the wife's blood, but instead a product the husband and his sister. It could be a bad trait called "Dark Secret" which has a % chance to become known. On another note, didn't Medieval Total War have this aspect? The whole secrets thing? From what I remember is that the game has multiple dark secrets, and if you look at it (as the player of your character) you'll know what it is. If it's ever known it loses it's dark secret label and becomes public knowledge, which can give you a devastating trait.

I think one of the defining factors of A Song of Ice & Fire, is that blunt topics it deals with that keeps people coming back, aside from it's grim realism, characters, and story. From what I remember reading is that when he wrote that series, is that he purposely gave each character a flaw, which made the characters more human, since no one is perfect. It makes you wonder if some of these very dark flaws would add a bit of grit to CK2.
 
Tyson_48 said:
Who (in terms of gameplay) cares if the Ruler of Duchy xy is homosexual or not?
If he married and produce children anyway, it is as much as important as his favourite colour of horses or he likes pork or chicken ;)
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Yeah. Who cares if someone is "sceptical" or a "heretic". if he goes to the church its not really important.

who cares if he is "lazy" if he still governs the kingdom ? who cares if he is "cruel" if he doesnt kill his family ? who cares if he is "wise" if he still occasionally makes mistakes ?

i think you guys are on to something here.
 
Kandletaadu said:
That was my failed attempt to add flavour to the role play aspect. But i suppose it was bit too spicy for some people. I try to be more open minded but some topics are still taboo and not discussed openly. In my great enthusiasm i forgot that homosexuality is having bit privileged position compared to some less accepted practices. Anyway.

I ment more of the possibility for sisters and brothers to become lovers and sire bastards. It was 'fixed' in later patches.
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