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I understand why it would be that way, still, kind of a bummer to me (personally, I know many people like or don't mind that), random maps just don't give me the same immersion. :(

That's funny. For me random maps give me far more immersion. You can write your own story. I'm big on sandbox stuff though. I always loved the setting of AOW but actually never got super enthralled with the story even if I liked the characters. I wanted to throw em into a random pot and stir it to see what happens.
 
That's funny. For me random maps give me far more immersion. You can write your own story. I'm big on sandbox stuff though. I always loved the setting of AOW but actually never got super enthralled with the story even if I liked the characters. I wanted to throw em into a random pot and stir it to see what happens.

I suppose it's just different strokes for different folks. If I want to create my own story then I tend to well....write the story, in a medium where I'm not limited to the assets the developers provided, or else I'm playing something completely sandboxy, like the Sims or Crusader Kings.
Thing is AoW was always a series where i preferred the story and world building to the gameplay. Learning about the world, finding all those little side things the older campaign maps had hidden away, having the antagonist shout at me when I won a particular victory etc etc etc, that sort of thing. Particularly the Shadow Magic campaign was marvelous in that regard, I felt like everything had a bit of backstory, it's own life. With AoW 3, I didn't have that impression anymore.
 
I will say that the world looks very interesting, however I'm wondering how much we'll get to see of it.

I was really disappointed with the AoW3 Campaign, especially after AoW1, 2 and Shadow Magic had such excellent campaigns. The one in AoW3 was short, relatively boring/unimaginative and felt more like a tutorial for multiplayer than anything else.
Are you planning on providing a more complete story mode again this time around?

The main part of the game will very likely be the random map generator again.

I understand why it would be that way, still, kind of a bummer to me (personally, I know many people like or don't mind that), random maps just don't give me the same immersion. :(

Well, the campaigns should be better than previous. At PDXcon, they said they were looking at pseudo-random campaigns - the map objectives are fixed, but the rest of the sectors would be RMG'd in. This would make it a lot more replayable.

That's funny. For me random maps give me far more immersion. You can write your own story. I'm big on sandbox stuff though. I always loved the setting of AOW but actually never got super enthralled with the story even if I liked the characters. I wanted to throw em into a random pot and stir it to see what happens.

On story:

For the campaign we are trying some different things. We've heard the feedback on the AoW3 campaign and have been figuring out how to improve upon those, such as the pseudo-random campaigns Gloweye mentions. We're also trying to take into account how different people want to play the campaign. If its a more complete story I find hard to say. We're still make changes to the campaign every day and if a story is complete, interesting and imaginative seems very much subjective. We are certainly aiming at the campaign being more fun!

Another thing we are working on - which impacts both campaign and random maps - is more emergent storytelling. We are working on systems that add lore-bombs to every maps, not just campaign maps. That to make sure everyone can enjoy this universe's back story.
 
Another thing we are working on - which impacts both campaign and random maps - is more emergent storytelling. We are working on systems that add lore-bombs to every maps, not just campaign maps. That to make sure everyone can enjoy this universe's back story.

That makes me think of the older Heroes of Might and Magic games, where whenever you found an item there was a short flavor story how you acquired it. I'd love to see something in the same vein (even though the exact situation of course doesn't exist in Age of Wonders).
 
I'm really glad to hear that you guys are aiming to make campaigns more fun again. When I say unimaginative, I think it had a lot to do with AoW3's campaign very much repeating elements form the odler campaigns, instead of advancing...we once again saw Elves vs. Humans, while the Cult of Storm planned something sneaky, even the protagonists kind of had this knock-off feeling; Sundren was a less interesting version of Julia (she could at least have been given Dark Elf features to differentiate them visually), while Edward was a steampunk version of Merlin. And instead of learning more about what is going on with the Shadow Demons and the Archons and the Humans and all...we retread old ground.
The DLC campaigns were quite a bit better....but so very short...
I know campaign creating takes a lot of resources, so I understand that something on the scale of AoW1 might not be possible, but...maybe the campaign can be extended after release with story packs?

Another thing we are working on - which impacts both campaign and random maps - is more emergent storytelling. We are working on systems that add lore-bombs to every maps, not just campaign maps. That to make sure everyone can enjoy this universe's back story.

That's a very good idea. You guys have always rocked at world building. Athla is an excellent fantasy setting, breaks/avoids several cliches and manages to be imaginative.
That's part of the reason why I was so disappointed that AoW3 focused on random skirmishes on non-descript maps rather than in exploring the lore behind the world.
 
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Damn, these faces on the right look so soviet :)
a074bb71c886052b55f14ba8def3124f.jpg


national socialist, mid soviet etc.. evidently the proletariat did not value abstract art much considering it a bourgeois perversion :D
 
Hardly anybody plays linear campaigns in 4x games and seems a waste of development time.One should look at AlphaCentuari which made the random maps have a story.

Whodunnit? Who or what brought the empire down? Maybe they’re coming after you as well. Maybe the techs you’re rediscovering are the ones that caused the cataclysm.

ya know rome was neither built nor destroyed in a day. Look at the art it does not even look like war. Fairly little damage. More like sheer decay and a bit household explosives at most.
Count on there being more than one story of fall, decay, anarchy and collapse.
 
I'm really glad to hear that you guys are aiming to make campaigns more fun again. When I say unimaginative, I think it had a lot to do with AoW3's campaign very much repeating elements form the odler campaigns, instead of advancing...we once again saw Elves vs. Humans, while the Cult of Storm planned something sneaky, even the protagonists kind of had this knock-off feeling; Sundren was a less interesting version of Julia (she could at least have been given Dark Elf features to differentiate them visually), while Edward was a steampunk version of Merlin. And instead of learning more about what is going on with the Shadow Demons and the Archons and the Humans and all...we retread old ground.
The DLC campaigns were quite a bit better....but so very short...
I know campaign creating takes a lot of resources, so I understand that something on the scale of AoW1 might not be possible, but...maybe the campaign can be extended after release with story packs?



That's a very good idea. You guys have always rocked at world building. Athla is an excellent fantasy setting, breaks/avoids several cliches and manages to be imaginative.
That's part of the reason why I was so disappointed that AoW3 focused on random skirmishes on non-descript maps rather than in exploring the lore behind the world.

Imo you got a few things wrong: its not the Cult planning something sneaky, but a completely new faction fooling/provoking it into retrying, to use that for their own ends.

Also, beyond similar looks early missions Sundren and Julia have surprisingly little in common, the biggest differences being:
1. Juila starts as a so called flat caracter, one whos developement is/seems already finished the moment we first encounter her(unshakable Paragon of good/peacekeeper values). Sundren starts as a round caracter, one who has still lots of room for developement, with the potential to become either hero or villian, depending on which campaign arc we pick.
2. While Julia is the good girl in all games, Sundrens Rogue class, and thereby her ruling and fighting style, are probably the darkest and dirtiest in the core game.

And also the Shadow Demons have been beaten to the point I don´t expect them to make a comback. And if they were to make a comeback after all, that also would be retreading old ground.
I personaly liked AoW1 far more than AoW: Shadow magic in terms of lore.

Imo the AoW3 campaigns (and lore on the undead Archon units) were awsome in their own right, and a nessesary exposition for the story of AoW4 ... now we only need to wait a few more excruitatingly long years and live with that cliffhanger xD
 
Also, beyond similar looks early missions Sundren and Julia have surprisingly little in common, the biggest differences being:
1. Juila starts as a so called flat caracter, one whos developement is/seems already finished the moment we first encounter her(unshakable Paragon of good/peacekeeper values). Sundren starts as a round caracter, one who has still lots of room for developement, with the potential to become either hero or villian, depending on which campaign arc we pick.
2. While Julia is the good girl in all games, Sundrens Rogue class, and thereby her ruling and fighting style, are probably the darkest and dirtiest in the core game.

Sundren was, imho the less complex character when compared to Julia. Sure Julia started out as a Pragon, but at least she was one, and by Shadow Magic she had matured into a proper Queen.
Sundren...she's the standard rebellious princess, and pretty whiny/entitled.
Knock-off Julia was more in relation to their role as important leaders in the war against humans.

And also the Shadow Demons have been beaten to the point I don´t expect them to make a comback.
If I'm not completely mistaken, The Shadow Demons have been retconned to be the demons/old enemies the Archons have been fighting for the fate of countless worlds all over the multiverse. The very reason they are raising humans and work with the Elves. So I doubt they are gone for good.
 
Imho, doing the campaigns right in a game like this is the most difficult thing to do, because mainstream game reviews will always concentrate on the campaign(s) for a couple of understandable reasons (teach the game on the fly, expected to showcase what the game has on offer), going so far as to judge playing time purely of how long it takes to play the campaign(s). However, game development doesn't stop a year before release, but the more technically complex campaigns are, the earlier work on them has to begin.

To give an example, in AoW 3, let's assume cutscenes with voice acting, and imagine Rogue campaign featuring a cutscene with an evolving scoundrel - obviously to assassin, because that's how the game was at release. You have the cutscene, you have the voice acting, you have the story, they all cost money to produce - and shortly after release it's clear that this could have been better solved. So when you change the Scoundrel Evolve to Lesser Shadow Stalker your campaign is suddenly flawed - which means, you can't do it.

Then there is this "take them by the hand" feeling many campaigns nowadays have. It SHOULD feel as if you had to find out what to do, make decisions, be allowed to screw up ... Often it doesn't, though. You are just collecting objectives, toiling them off, being sent from a to b to c and back to a, following a script - which seems necessary if you want to tell a story in the correct order and catering for any alternative way players might find with the right messages and cutscenes would just be too expensive.

Which simply means, on one hand, telling a good story over the course of a few maps is cool, but in MY opinion a campaign MUST have replay value, otherwise you are just wasting assets for some flashy icing. With the story being told after a playthrough, the replay value has to come via variety of gameplay, and obviously Triumph is on the right track here.

I think, the best game of the genre when you consider campaigns only, is (still) Disciples 2 with unlimited replay value and an interesting story played from 5 different perspectives.
 
Those posters are awesome, especially Terratech one.

I'm wondering what the Core attribute of the unit from previous Dev Diary means. Is it the Conscientious Omnipresent Regency Engine you mentioned? Is it specific for Vanguard units and what it do?
 
I love the idea of rise-and-fall cyclic history, so a game set scrubbing around in the ruins of far-future hubris looks like it'll scratch an itch juuuuuust right for me.

Never played an AoW game before, but this looks 100% hype even if I don't have a clue about gameplay genre.
 
btw, will any of the other races from previous woe games make a return ( beside human of course ) orc, dwarves, undead etc.??
Or will it more or less be humans, robots and aliens ??