Alt. Post Unification Germany

[Gottskalk]

Another war for Danzig?
Seriously why Poland declares war? I mean TO want it Germany says we will help them and it is suicidal Poland that declares war? Poland very rarely was declaring wars, since nobles would have to agree for it, and they almost never wanted it becouse it meant higher taxes.

Yes indeed your right i think, the position polland would be in would be quite a tricky one. We should rather make Germany and the Teutonic order do the declaring, we might also want to put the seccession of danzig as the more favourable choice for the ai, maybe t the idea as whole isn´t so good though?

 

[crash63]

Danzig was essential for Poland and his economy.

 

[Gottskalk]

Yes quite that´s why i felt that Poland would make an effort to keep it, perhaps an alliance with some of Germanys more troublesome neigbours?

 

[SorelusImperion]

Considering event for helping Teutonic order, I think you should consider:
- some check if TO is weak (countrysize trigger?)

I thought about checking the countrysize of the TO but since it's problems were related to it's dependence on Mercenarys after the Battle of Tannenberg and the decline of it's ecomic strength due to overtaxation and amost continues warfare it's position would have been very weak in the early 16th century no matter how many provinces they would have owned.

The next step can either be: a DOW/ casus belli when Albrecht attempts to reform the Order or resulting from TO claims on Danzig...

Possible Alliance partners for Poland: Denmark, France, Sweden,
The obvious partner would be France wich would use the conflict to further it's interests in Italy.

 

[unmerged(36449)]

Netherlands Indigenous People
European Indigenous Peoples – The Frisians Of Holland
© Tyson Yunkaporta

Jan 30, 2007
frisian woman - Photo Credit: friesland.com
The Frisians are the indigenous people of the Netherlands. They have successfully fought for the right to maintain the Frisian language, spoken there for millennia.

The earliest records of indigneous Frisians inhabiting their land are from 700 BC. Up until at least the fifth century their tribal lands included the entire North Sea coast of Holland. In the eighth century they were annexed by the Frankish empire, and then won their independance again during the Middle Ages, spending the next 700 years as a unilingual and autonomous people. Then in 1579 Friesland was taken over by the United Dutch Republic, and Dutch language was introduced to replace Friesian.

However, many Frisians fought to maintain and reestablish their aboriginal language, and in 1993 Frisian became a mandated subject in primary schools and secondary schools in Friesland. Today both Dutch and Frisian languages are used in the community. Of 640 000 Fresians, almost three quarters are able to speak the language fluently.

more help for fasntasy german kingdom,
make the dutch culture, frisian culture and then KOG , needs to battle them to annex them

Battling the Frisians I could see, but on what basis would you justify a battle against the "Dutch" who at that time, and we are talking about 1515 and before; not even a "culture"? The inhabitants of the region other then the Frisians were at that moment in history identifying themselves as "German". And the Burgundian circle WAS formed historically, it actually happened. So in the event of the reichsreform going toward the formation of a modern state and the event conditions having been met to do that what reason would there be for this one circle to force the legal overlord of the area to subjugate them by force of arms?

Other then deterministic need for there to be a Dutch republic in the mid to late game there is none. And determinism is not a viable defense.

 

[unmerged(36449)]

They were elected after strong support of Russia and they were considered as enemies of brandenburg, besides saxony doesnt het polish culture in game afaik.

Considering event for helping Teutonic order, I think you should consider:
- some check if TO is weak (countrysize trigger?)
- relation drop with with denmark and sweden and maybe russia (-50?), not only poland had wars with orders . Helping them wouldnt be considered good in these countries as well. You may increase relations with papacy.

Should also probably have a few checks to see which state formed Germany since that to will affect some of the outcomes. In a Germany formed by Saxony the election of them as the Polish King could be a pretty bad thing....

I am not sure on the TO event sequence personally. Given that the order were beholden to the Emperor, and given that technically that made all of their lands sort of imperial property, would Poland even consider tweaking the emperors nose by granting the grandmasters request to secularize the area? That is just a for sure way of pissing off the man if he is not Hohenzollern, and in that case why would Poland risk the event at all?

I haven't weighed in on it because I am not quite sure about it yet.

 

[Gottskalk]

Possible Alliance partners for Poland: Denmark, France, Sweden,

Yes quite i would say these were the obvius choices, just the same as the 30 years war =). Interesting to see how this would turn out.

The obvious partner would be France wich would use the conflict to further it's interests in Italy.

quite indeed!
but have there been any events made for German ambitions in italy yet ? cant recall.

 

[SorelusImperion]

not yet ... Like the "Drang nach Osten" chain I have only two events to initialize the whole thing and I'd like to finish at least the first tow steps of the Imperial policy in the East befor moving to Italy so the French alliance will have to wait -.-

 

[Gottskalk]

not yet ... Like the "Drang nach Osten" chain I have only two events to initialize the whole thing and I'd like to finish at least the first tow steps of the Imperial policy in the East befor moving to Italy so the French alliance will have to wait -.-

Yes sounds like a good work order! Well just note down all these possibilitys as you say and then we can consider them when we start working on the Italian chain

But for now i was wondering about where you want this Drang nach ost thing to end? If all goes well for Germany will we be seeing the Teutonic order incorperated and/or the Polish subjugated?
And if all goes down the mud for Germany will we see the Polish taking over the lands of the Order and possible allies of Poland making demands of their own?


and just one last question! are we submitting any new events to the upcoming 1.52 version? the Post unification years are quite dull as they are =)

 

[SorelusImperion]

Ultimate German success = Brest-Litowsk borders
Medium German success = Kingdom of Poland and Prussia annexed
Medium German failure = no Border changes in the East but Poland annexes Prussia and it won't get divided
Ultimate German failure = Poland annexes Silesia too and gets involved into German dynastic struggles (destabilizing the HRE, maybe a flag for further events)

I have already asked wether I can submit at least the dynastic specific flavour events but I never got an satisfying answer (for example I don't even know wich fee IDs I may claim -.- for them)

Edit: I think I may have found out how AGCEEP Event ID system works ... AS it seems there is a range of free IDs starting with 366111 up to 367000 but I am not yet sure ...

 

[Gottskalk]

Ultimate German success = Brest-Litowsk borders

So are we talking about borders on the river dniepr or just on this province (volyn in game or something). And would this be any different from the medium german success? as i understand they are very similiar but i often misinterpret =)

Medium German success = Kingdom of Poland and Prussia annexed

Wow that is a pretty good medium success =). I mean the annexation of Poland would not be well liked by other catholic countries, especially not by the pope, might need alot of bb to portray that or something.

I have already asked wether I can submit at least the dynastic specific flavour events but I never got an satisfying answer (for example I don't even know wich fee IDs I may claim -.- for them)

Edit: I think I may have found out how AGCEEP Event ID system works ... AS it seems there is a range of free IDs starting with 366111 up to 367000 but I am not yet sure ...

Yes quite they must have alot on their minds i suppose =)
But indeed i don´t know it either i´m very new in this modding department=)
but indeed i think you are right with these free id´s at least the german event file says so. I think these flavour events would be a good thing to start with, kinda hard to get anything bigger in for now.

 

[SorelusImperion]

Medium success: I am not refering to a short term success but the general result of the Imperial policy in the East at the End of the EUII period ^^
In this context Brest-Litowsk= advance up to the Don (ok PERHAPS only Dnepr )

 

[Gottskalk]

Medium success: I am not refering to a short term success but the general result of the Imperial policy in the East at the End of the EUII period ^^
In this context Brest-Litowsk= advance up to the Don (ok PERHAPS only Dnepr )

Terribly sry for misunderstanding =)

But yes gradually it would be more acceptable =)

Heh nice it would be quite interesting to see germany go so far =) but this would lead us into conflicts with lithuania right?

And yes i wanted to add that maybe we should have culture change events for hinterpommern and Küstrin in case they have been taken by polland and changed to Polish.(which happens alot in my games at least, i try as much as i can to run over to pommern and brandenburg if they are loosing a war with polland ) If this is the case a strong germany would probably start pushing again over the Oder Neisse if the Polish have made a new border there. We could make them related to our drang nach osten events but maybe we should just add them if Germany has made the north east electoral circle and owns küstrin and pommern?

Edit: Yes would we be making a event sequence for balkan interventions as im sure at some point the Ottomans would be pushing dangerously close to Vienna. Maybe just for a austrian formed germany =9

 

[unmerged(36449)]

Terribly sry for misunderstanding =)

But yes gradually it would be more acceptable =)

Heh nice it would be quite interesting to see germany go so far =) but this would lead us into conflicts with lithuania right?

And yes i wanted to add that maybe we should have culture change events for hinterpommern and Küstrin in case they have been taken by polland and changed to Polish.(which happens alot in my games at least, i try as much as i can to run over to pommern and brandenburg if they are loosing a war with polland ) If this is the case a strong germany would probably start pushing again over the Oder Neisse if the Polish have made a new border there. We could make them related to our drang nach osten events but maybe we should just add them if Germany has made the north east electoral circle and owns küstrin and pommern?

Edit: Yes would we be making a event sequence for balkan interventions as im sure at some point the Ottomans would be pushing dangerously close to Vienna. Maybe just for a austrian formed germany =9

I don't think it would matter who formed Germany...the Turks near Vienna would be a call to arms.

Yikes! Just thought about a HAB formed Germany, getting Hungary....that will be ugly. Question would be would a Germany formed by another dynasty intervene in much the same way that is open to some dynasties to secure the Polish throne for the Wettins; in Hungary for the Hapsburgs?

I would think so in most cases, it is just good geopolitics to a have a friendly and indebted to you friendly on your border.

 

[SorelusImperion]

Modded the the first three "Drang nach Osten" events a bit. Germany will only loose gold if the Order accepts. Thus if for example the Livonian order is already annexed the Emperor won't have to pay 100 gold to a nonexistent LIV.
I included "breakvassal" commands in the order's reactive events as well as a "b" choice to decline an cooperation with the Empire.

I have posted this also in the Burgundy thread. It is the printed version of the orginial "Burgundian Treaty" wich seperated the Netherlands from the Empire. Many people misinterpreted it as a total separation or even attributed the separation to he Pragmatic Sanction wich didn't deal with the relation Burgundian circle-HRE at all... Still there are some issues how far the Burgundian treaty is going... It removed the circle from Imperial jurisdiction (Reichskammergericht) but the circle had still to pay the taxes like every other circle...

http://digbib.bibliothek.uni-augsburg.de/26/index.html

Page 36/37 are the important ones

"Wir Karl der Fuenfte von Gottes Gnaden römischer Kaiser/Zu allen Zeiten Mehrer des Reiches/König zu Germanien/zu Castilien/Aragon. etc. ..."

Just thought about a HAB formed Germany, getting Hungary

Being occupied with cementing his rule in Germany the Emperor would have difficultys to keep the unruly Hungarians in check ... Hungary would probably remain an autonomous part of the Emperor's domains for quite some time.

 

[Gottskalk]

Modded the the first three "Drang nach Osten" events a bit. Germany will only loose gold if the Order accepts. Thus if for example the Livonian order is already annexed the Emperor won't have to pay 100 gold to a nonexistent LIV.
I included "breakvassal" commands in the order's reactive events as well as a "b" choice to decline an cooperation with the Empire.

I have posted this also in the Burgundy thread. It is the printed version of the orginial "Burgundian Treaty" wich seperated the Netherlands from the Empire. Many people misinterpreted it as a total separation or even attributed the separation to he Pragmatic Sanction wich didn't deal with the relation Burgundian circle-HRE at all... Still there are some issues how far the Burgundian treaty is going... It removed the circle from Imperial jurisdiction (Reichskammergericht) but the circle had still to pay the taxes like every other circle...

http://digbib.bibliothek.uni-augsburg.de/26/index.html

Page 36/37 are the important ones

"Wir Karl der Fuenfte von Gottes Gnaden römischer Kaiser/Zu allen Zeiten Mehrer des Reiches/König zu Germanien/zu Castilien/Aragon. etc. ..."

Good work man! that´s some thouroghly researched stuff!

Being occupied with cementing his rule in Germany the Emperor would have difficultys to keep the unruly Hungarians in check ... Hungary would probably remain an autonomous part of the Emperor's domains for quite some time.

Just had a game where i became germany as austria, managed to both secure bohemia and hungary and then turning switzerland into german culture before the change. Then i lost czech , magyar and slovak, that was a bummer.

Oh well at least i retained the cores. Then started wondering why i wanted to become germany when i could be the multi cultural austria with even more events, oh well that´s what we are here to fix.

Read your post on the Austrian, germany thread , these events are good as it is totally necessery to get some of these flavour events in, its like being deaf for the rest of the game being germany.

Anyway started wondering about the Protestant conversion events, aren´t they supposed to symbolize the Protestant counts conversions?, it was mainly their choice to convert, and they did because of hefty sum from church holdings? I mean i when you pretty much own all their land and says who believes what i think that Martin Luthers ambitions wouldn´t have been so easy. Im not suggesting anything like the french religion war agceep has but i find it quite tempting to create some events regarding this involving some seccessions.

 

[SorelusImperion]

Maybe I would prefer to focus on German Eastern policy befor starting to meddle into Imperial religous policy or other areas...

Don't overestimate my "research" though since it is difficult to read the treaty And I'd realy prefer to have a second one who is able to read it to confirming my opinion and perhaps even translating the whole thing into English

 

[Gottskalk]

Ill try my best although i´m only an amateur in german =). Maybe you could give me direct link to specified page?

 

[SorelusImperion]

Edit:

I have posted the en exerpt of the treaty in it's original form and language inthe Burgundy thread.

 

[unmerged(36449)]

Modded the the first three "Drang nach Osten" events a bit. Germany will only loose gold if the Order accepts. Thus if for example the Livonian order is already annexed the Emperor won't have to pay 100 gold to a nonexistent LIV.
I included "breakvassal" commands in the order's reactive events as well as a "b" choice to decline an cooperation with the Empire.

I have posted this also in the Burgundy thread. It is the printed version of the orginial "Burgundian Treaty" wich seperated the Netherlands from the Empire. Many people misinterpreted it as a total separation or even attributed the separation to he Pragmatic Sanction wich didn't deal with the relation Burgundian circle-HRE at all... Still there are some issues how far the Burgundian treaty is going... It removed the circle from Imperial jurisdiction (Reichskammergericht) but the circle had still to pay the taxes like every other circle...

http://digbib.bibliothek.uni-augsburg.de/26/index.html

Page 36/37 are the important ones

"Wir Karl der Fuenfte von Gottes Gnaden römischer Kaiser/Zu allen Zeiten Mehrer des Reiches/König zu Germanien/zu Castilien/Aragon. etc. ..."




Being occupied with cementing his rule in Germany the Emperor would have difficultys to keep the unruly Hungarians in check ... Hungary would probably remain an autonomous part of the Emperor's domains for quite some time.

I would think in a successful reform the odds of the separation treaty in any form however mild flying would be very, very, very slim.

For the first time in a couple of centuries the empire is finally standing on it' feet and not on it' knees, why weaken it or give in one inch now? I don't think that the Burgundians would stand a chance on the field of imposing it, nor would the Spanish.

So the matter would likely fall.

Oh and to continue a discussion on cultures to a degree...

Given that they have split Germany into multiple cultures of high, low and middle German it would be fine to include Dutch as a culture if you define all of those as regional characters and not national identities. Think the -30 is a bit harsh, and if they are going to do that to Germany the same treatment should have been done to France or it artificially props up France to a greater degree then is probably prudent.

So, when the formation of Germany happens and the new Emperor gains the various regional characters of the German nation, they should get Dutch to fill out the list.

If by some chance they return to a monolithic pan German culture as is in Vanilla then Dutch should be eliminated at game start and crop up after a certain date.

But I don't think that is going to happen.