SorelusImperion said:
IF Helvetia will be included it deserves a much more independent status than even Poland since the Helvetian were not at all friends of the Emperor. It is an OPTION to let them remain "reichsunmittelbar" or "reichsfrei" thus associated with the Empire but I can not imagine that they would be integrated as closely as for example Bohemia or the Netherlands unless the Habsburgs have annexed Helvetia some time before the unification and even then I think they deserve a special treatment without "German" cores on the Helvetian provinces.
Concerning Italy I would not favour annexiation and or even vassalisation but just some kind of influencing Italian policy through indirect means and establishing allys within the princedoms and republics kinda like the Habsburgs have done. This would keep the Status quo in Italy without damaging the balance.
Concerning the Netherlands I staunchly defend the Dutch revolts especialy since those lands are rich and almost all important nations get the revolt events so I think Germany should not get an "unfair" advantage in this region.
Concerning Poland I personaly support a German expansionist line in this area and again this is to support some kind of semi-historical outcome in the area with Poland-Lithuania loosing much of it's territory with the slight difference that Germany and not Russia "occupy" the Royal Polish territorys and the Holy Roman Emperor not the Russian Tzar adopts the title "King of Poland".
Concerning the outlined event chains for Bohemia and the Dutch provinces I would like to know wether we should actualy start to create them or wether there are alterations needed
Regarding Helvetia: The Hapsburgs before the start of the game had done a pretty good job of ticking off the Swiss, but they had not quite completed the job so to speak. It is quite possible, as I have seen in more then a few games for Austria to vassalize them, even peacefully so; thus I think we need to consider the possibility of the relationship between the Empire and the Swiss playing out differently. Perhaps the safest and easiest way to handle it is upon the formation of the HRE, Helvetia has an event triggered much in the way the reaction events are triggered for France etc. the event would give them three or four possible choices, and the order of them would change based upon conditions in the game.
If we have the historic or quasi historic route of animosity with the Hapsburgs, and the Emperor IS a Hapsburg, we can write off the Swiss joining the Empire as the "A" choice. But we could leave it a "B" in this situation, since they might not think that they could stand against the whole might of the empire. IN either case they would retain Swiss culture and just generally be a pain in the Empires ass.
If you have a situation without the animosity (has good relations with her nearest neighbors in the Empire say 140 or so), and the Emperor is not Austrian; I don't see why they would not join as there has not been enough water under the bridge yet in the relationship between Helvetia and the Empire in this set of circumstances for them to want to cut themselves off from the rest of the German speaking world. They just aren't pissed off enough to make that kind of break.
Then you have a kind of middle of the road situation where the particulars might shift around a bit and the best possible "A" choice would be for them to become a vassal OF but not PART of the Empire.
Best case scenario you have what was part of the Empire, and even they admitted that they were, rejoining the Empire fully so there would be cores. Worst case? You have the historic break away, no cores, no cultural shift.
In regards Italy:
I tend to lean toward your position, by the time the reforms were on the table everyone in Germany knew that Italy was a lost cause, and although there was a lot of wealth there it was not worth the hassle. Especially since you would have to schlep all the way over the Alps on horseback if you were lucky!
The Italian question is a good one. Perhaps it deserve a more in depth event chain all its' own? Here is what just popped into my head:
"A" choice for an event for lack of a better title; the Italian question: Do nothing. Leaves everything as it is no fuss no muss.
"B" and "C" would however lead you down a couple of different paths; one would be to reestablish control over territory you wear the crown of. Or relinquish it to a trusted deputy, and by that I mean the Dukes of Savoy who as Vicars for Italy would be the logical choice. Heck could throw in a "D" option to give some finer tuning possibilities. "A" would do nothing, "B" attempt to reestablish vassalage which would do just that with each of the various states, "C" would be pass the crown of Italy over to your loyal vassal the Dukes of Savoy, or "D" show them who holds the Iron crown of Lombardy....
And in closing I will end with the Dutch.
The reason that other countries get the Dutch revolts is to force the creation of the Netherlands and for no other reason. It has ZERO basis in anything else other then a heavy handed way of making sure that a country needed for the later part of the game will be there.
As such they are not defensible from a historic point of view and only marginally from a game point of view. At the very least the player should be given a choice on how much blood he wants to try and squeeze out of the Dutch turnip to justify the revolts. But they don't. And I am not a huge fan of that kind of deterministic hooey. And that is all the revolts happening to other nations is: Hooey.
