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I have an idea for a system that could be used for Theocracies. Similarly to Legitimacy and Republican Tradition, it would go from 0 to 100. The bonuses/penalties would work like those of legitimacy, with no bonuses at 50%.

0% devotion would give:
  • -20% tax income;
  • -20% manpower recovery speed;
  • -1 yearly prestige;
  • -0.5 yearly papal influence.


100% devotion would give:
  • +20% tax income;
  • +20% manpower recovery speed;
  • +1 yearly prestige;
  • +0.5 yearly papal influence.


Gaining devotion

Passively, you'd gain +0.5% devotion/year for being at peace with nations of your own faith. In other words, you'd gain +0.5% devotion/year for being at peace or at war with someone of different religion.

You'd also gain or lose devotion based on your religious unity, scaling from -0.5%/year at 0 unity to +0.5%/year at 100% unity.

Religious idea Devoutness would give +0.25% yearly devotion, being excommunicated would give -2% devotion/year and being in a crusade would give +0.25% devotion/year.

Actively you'd gain/lose devotion through events. You'd also gain 10 devotion for winning a holy war (as an aggressor or defender). You'd also gain/lose devotion from some decisions (e.g. + 10 devotion for embracing the countrreformation) and chainging your state religion would result in a loss of 50% devotion.

Additionally each religion would have a bonus related to your religion.

Christian would have a unique mechanics for inheritance. They would always have heirs – Catholic ones would have 3, all the other would have 2.

In the government screen there would be buttons for choosing one of the heir. They would all have random stats and age of at least 40. You would always be able to choose one and change your choice, but doing so would cost 5 devotion. If one of the heirs died before the he would be replaced with a new one.

The heirs would be:
  • A nobleman – he would have a randomly assigned dynasty, from dynasties of your culture. Choosing this heir would, upon ascent, resulting in a loss of 25% devotion and a gain of 50% yearly income in gold. Also, having a ruler of the same dynasty as that of another nation would give a big relation bonus.
  • A papal protege – Catholic only. Upon ascent, you'd gain 10 papal influence and 5 devotion.
  • A local preacher – upon ascent you'd gain 15 devotion and lose 5 prestige. This would be the default option if you didn't chose anyone.


Additionally, religious focus on stability for Reformed would give +0.25% devotion/year. Patriarch authority would also give devotion, up to +0.5%/year at full authority.

Muslims would gain extra devotion from positive Piety (up to +0.5%/year).

Buddhists would gain an extra +0.5 devotion for being at peace.

There are no theocracies of other religions, so I didn't bother coming up with ideas for how they could work, but feel free to add some.
 
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Plus one.
 
I am sceptical of the whole changing ruler while they still live thing, but aside from that: I like the idea of basically having a republic that doesn't take tradition.
Would this government style apply to the Papacy as well, or would he remain a special case?
 
It's a bit too easy to stay at very high devotion for the entire game after getting it high the first time. I'd recommend expanding the heir options with higher costs to give you a more consistent outlet for excess devotion. Also, being able to see the stats of three different heirs is very powerful, making theocracy a way better version of republic. It would be much more balanced if stats are generated on ruler's ascension.

My suggested heirs:

* A Talented Theologian: Choose adm, dip, and/or mil. On ascension, ruler gains +1 to each chosen stat at the cost of 15 devotion each. (This is the primary way to dump excess devotion.)
* A Merchant's Son: Gain a large wad of ducats on ascension, at the cost of 20 devotion.
* A Foreign Noble: Choose a foreign monarchy. Gain that country's dynasty on ruler ascension, as well as +50 relations with all countries with that dynasty, at the cost of 5 devotion.
* A Local Preacher: No bonuses, gain 10 devotion on ascension.
 
Good mechanic idea. It would make wars with countries of the same religion a lot more painful for theocracies. One big interesting thing here is that the mechanic has no impact on unrest, while both legitimacy and republic tradition primarily affect unrest. Maybe add either a lot of true faith tolerance to it, or +/- 1 or 2 unrest?

I wonder if the events will be just as painful as the republic ones currently are?
 
Good mechanic idea. It would make wars with countries of the same religion a lot more painful for theocracies. One big interesting thing here is that the mechanic has no impact on unrest, while both legitimacy and republic tradition primarily affect unrest. Maybe add either a lot of true faith tolerance to it, or +/- 1 or 2 unrest?

I wonder if the events will be just as painful as the republic ones currently are?

Theocracies, by default, are already +2 TTF and -2 HT.

Life would be very hard for TO, Ajuraan, and some of the other orders early on. I'd imagine Mzab to be slightly easier, maybe Knights too depending on what you do.
 
Theocracies, by default, are already +2 TTF and -2 HT.

Life would be very hard for TO, Ajuraan, and some of the other orders early on. I'd imagine Mzab to be slightly easier, maybe Knights too depending on what you do.

Personally, I think moving the TFT mod to devotion and giving them ~+20% tax mod there instead might be more suitable. Then don't have devotion actually affect tax mod.
 
I love this idea, but I don't think we should marry theocracies to the Papacy with that +PI bonus. There's room for fanaticism in every religion, and Devotion should depend on PI/PA/Piety/Fanaticism instead of giving it. Let's keep your basic values and pathways for gaining Devotion. For each religion, I propose the annual change would be:

  • Catholic: (PI saved/100) - 0.5.
  • Protestant: No change. (No mechanic to play off.)
  • Reformed: (Fanaticism/100) - 0.45.
  • Orthodox and Coptic: (Authority/100) - 0.3.
  • Muslim: (Piety/100) - 0.75
  • Buddhist: No change. (No mechanic to play off.)

I eyeballed the values to be proportional to the probable value of a successful theocratic country's religious "meter." Additionally, give +0.5% devotion per base tax for converting provinces. Maybe don't give devotion for winning Holy Wars, either, since in practice that's the bread-and-butter CB for Theocracies, and you'd basically get it all the time.
 
Sounds great, I'd love to see theocracies expanded upon! If this would find its way into the game, perhaps it could be bundled with some new government forms for theocracies? Instead of being stuck with only one, perhaps there could be a choice between a warlike/"crusader"-state, a pacifist/"holy traditions" and diplomatic/"missionary" form. It would open up for new options, getting the choice to sacrifice stability for bonuses in local autonomy, force limit, diplomatic relations, etc.
 
Stuff like this might actually make me want to play as a theocracy
 
I think Theocracy should borrow a lot of the Elective Monarchy mechanics, so other nations can support their Dynasty for the next seat. Should be specially usefull towards HRE voting if your dynasty controls a Bishop-elector.
Maybe also tie that to potential secularization somehow.

I wanted to mod something like this, but sadly religious types of Governments can't have the elective attribute (since it seems they have no heir structure) and if you make them a fake Monarchy type they can be elected emperors, which was a big no-no.
 
On secularization, Protestant and Reformed Theocracies should have a decision to become feudal monarchies that the AI would be likely to take.
IMO if you are catholic theocracy and wanna change religion to Protestant or Reformed, then government type changes to Monarchy (feudal, administrative etc depends on adm tech lvl). There should not be Protestant/Reformed theocracies.
 
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A few more thoughts:

1) Some elective monarchy type system to "lobby" for candidates in case the bishophoric decides to go for a noble successor
2) Some sort of "Guarantee" mechanism -- the country which sponsors the noble Bishop should need to come to aid of the Bishophoric for defensive wars as long as the Bishop is in power
3) Possibility of a "Successon war" between opposite set of candidates... this HAS happened in history.