Announcing Clio : A new map for Victoria : Revolutions

[Weijun]

Hmm looking at that map, it's different from other maps I've seen where all of Arizona and New Mexico were claimed for the CSA. Personally I'd prefer to leave New Mexico with a West Province that extedns all the way N-S to reflect the importance of the Rio Grande as a natural border that Texas sought in the 1830s.

Having CSA get cores on all Arizona & New Mexico I think is better.

IIRC, Baylor's expedition to New Mexico was just a means to achieve the grand scheme of taking California from the Union. Cores in NM, CA, and AZ should be all or nothing, IMO.

It might take a little scripting, but I would have it that if the CSA captures Albuquerque, then it can choose whether or not to make the claim. If they do, the CSA would get cores across all of NM, AZ, and CA, and furthermore would enable the NM, AZ, and CA "Joins the Confederacy" events. However, the Union would get a free division in NM and AZ, and maybe 2 in CA, as NM Governor Henry Connelly raised 4,000 men IRL. If the CSA does not make the claim, it would get no cores and the states could not join, but the Union would get no troops.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

I say subdvide PEI canada into 137 pieces.

FINALLY! MY DREAM HAS COME TRUE!

I must be friggin' hallucinating. Prince Edward Island, a province in a Paradox game? Say it ain't so!

I'll even overlook OHGamer's Anne of Green Gables comment if PEI is included And by rights, there should be an "Anne's Land" province in north-central PEI

 

[mib]

OK i've done a rework to Siberia.

​

Region that is now part of Russia (above the red border line) had 26 provinces in Victoria. This reduces that down to 25, so a gain of one Province ID.

And the Trans-Siberian Railway can be built properly without having to detour through Yakutsk!

total additional provinces : -1

Balance remaining of Province IDs : 123

Hmm, why's Guzel Khoto (which as I understand is the old name for Kyzyl) shaped thus? Why not retain the current semi-Tannu Tuva look that is the province of Tuva?

 

[OHgamer]

Hmm, why's Guzel Khoto (which as I understand is the old name for Kyzyl) shaped thus? Why not retain the current semi-Tannu Tuva look that is the province of Tuva?

from what I understand the Tuva region was at one point a bit further west and trying to follow a bit more the natural features in the region rather than some of the political changes that were done in the 20th C, though this is just a mockup for now, so not set in stone. Note, Xie has decided to do a redesign based on a better projection for the map (go Xie!), so we are actually going to be building the map up more from scratch rather than only just tweak some of the boundaries on the current map. This will allow us to get a better feel for more contemporary political boundaries and actually develop province borders based further on natural features (rivers, crests of mountains) as well.

Guzel Khoto from what i understand was the name used for Kyzyl (which in Turkic languages means "Red") before the Communist takeover in Tuva in the 1920s.

 

[mib]

from what I understand the Tuva region was at one point a bit further west and trying to follow a bit more the natural features in the region rather than some of the political changes that were done in the 20th C, though this is just a mockup for now, so not set in stone. Note, Xie has decided to do a redesign based on a better projection for the map (go Xie!), so we are actually going to be building the map up more from scratch rather than only just tweak some of the boundaries on the current map. This will allow us to get a better feel for more contemporary political boundaries and actually develop province borders based further on natural features (rivers, crests of mountains) as well.

Guzel Khoto from what i understand was the name used for Kyzyl (which in Turkic languages means "Red") before the Communist takeover in Tuva in the 1920s.

Hmm, yes, Xie was talking with me the other day about how EU2/HOI/Vic maps are skewed horizontally... is it possible for this new map to have different dimensions?

 

[Weijun]

Please tell me the plan is to make Clio VIP-compatible.

Also, since V:R included so many tags, do you think there is a chance to sweet talk the good folks at Paradox to include more province IDs in the next patch?

 

[|AXiN|]

Hmm looking at that map, it's different from other maps I've seen where all of Arizona and New Mexico were claimed for the CSA. Personally I'd prefer to leave New Mexico with a West Province that extedns all the way N-S to reflect the importance of the Rio Grande as a natural border that Texas sought in the 1830s.

Having CSA get cores on all Arizona & New Mexico I think is better.

Wouldn't it be possible to just rearrange the internal boundaries of the two states so that both borders are possible?

This was a fascinating look for me.

 

[OHgamer]

Please tell me the plan is to make Clio VIP-compatible.

Also, since V:R included so many tags, do you think there is a chance to sweet talk the good folks at Paradox to include more province IDs in the next patch?

My plan is to produce a Clio-compatible version of VIP at some point, although the first version will be base Revolutions-compatible, and Clio will not be an integral part of VIP, unless there is general agreement among the developers of VIP to make it such. Even if it were to be adopted for VIP, it would be at least VIP 0.6 before such a setup would be ready - VIP already will have enough to do just to get the base mod acclimatized to V:R for 0.5, and that process would be immensely delayed by throwing in a new map if there was general agreement among the VIP developers to do so.

And I highly, highly, highly doubt there will be any more Province IDs given by Paradox, as Victoria already has at its base a couple hundred more than either EU2 or HoI, and right now we have at least 117 free tags, after already doing a great deal of new tag assignments, with areas that could be reworked to give up even more tags for other used. There is definitely no Province ID tag shortage, and once Inferis does perfect the applications to make maps, I am sure we will start seeing maps proliferate. Clio is just getting a head start so that once the tools are perfected, Xie and myself can have all the graphical setup done so that the actual map coding does not take as long, and the laborious work of updating event files, POP files and AI files (and any other file that has Province IDs used in them) can be done.

Let's not kid ourselves, Clio is not going to be ready tomorrow - if for no other reason than not all the tools to make new maps have been perfected. If Clio is ready by 1 Jan '07 I will be very surprised and pleased, but for now I'll say enjoy V:R and look forward to VIP 0.5 before expecting Clio to be ready for V:R, and then a VIP-compatible Clio some time after that.

 

[Weijun]

Let's not kid ourselves, Clio is not going to be ready tomorrow - if for no other reason than not all the tools to make new maps have been perfected. If Clio is ready by 1 Jan '07 I will be very surprised and pleased, but for now I'll say enjoy V:R and look forward to VIP 0.5 before expecting Clio to be ready for V:R, and then a VIP-compatible Clio some time after that.

I understand these things take time. I'm just a little giddy that my favorite game keeps getting better. The map is just so fundamental to the game; MyMap and WATK breathed new life into EU2, so I have very high hopes for Clio. Since my interest in Victoria has not abated in 2 years, I suspect that I will still be playing until (if) Victoria 2 comes out. So, Clio and EU3 - something to look forward to.

 

[Delta_Green]

Note, Xie has decided to do a redesign based on a better projection for the map (go Xie!), so we are actually going to be building the map up more from scratch rather than only just tweak some of the boundaries on the current map. This will allow us to get a better feel for more contemporary political boundaries and actually develop province borders based further on natural features (rivers, crests of mountains) as well.

Does this mean we can expect a improvement of the south american continent?!

I understand the focus on the project is somewhere else atm (Mongolia, Africa, etc), but when you guys start to work on South America, I would very much like to help. I´ll not post anything now, so I don´t mess up what OHGamer is doing right now inserting random South American stuff in there, but I´m at the disposal of the mod owners to help with anything about South America, specially Brazil.

 

[Captain Frakas]

Please, make Alsace in the left bank of the Rhine

 

[OHgamer]

Please, make Alsace in the left bank of the Rhine

That's not a map issue, that is how you assign states to provinces in the provinces.csv file.

 

[Captain Frakas]

It's also a cosmetic issue on the physical map

 

[OHgamer]

One province to add - a province to represent the Pestamo salient which was part of Finland in the interwar era but was lost in the war. This will give flexibility to modders if they wish to use the map for more modern mods.

Also finishing up reworks in the USA - removing 1 province from Arizona and one from South Dakota, add 1 province to Minnesota, Iowa and New Jersey, Net use of 1 tag

Finally, adding one more province to Nova Scotia for Cape Breton Island. Yukon will however only have 3 provinces instead of 4.

Total additional provinces : 2

Balance remaining of Province IDs : 115

 

[OHgamer]

Update.

Northwest Territories will have one less province. Adding two more provinces to Serbia - one to make 1836 Serbia have 4 provinces, a second to split Kosovo into 2 provinces.

Total additional provinces : 1

Balance remaining of Province IDs : 114

 

[OHgamer]

OK kids, here is a little teaser for you.

Xie has done a mockup of most of North America with the new province ideas.

This is just a first step and there are plenty of little fixes to be done.

ignore the base Victoria map underneath, and focus on the colored part of the map.

but for those who want a little glimse into what might be in the not-so-distant future, enjoy.

NOTE : This is a BIG graphic file, I've posted the thumbnail, but the actual file size is 1.4 Mb so be warned if you have a slow connection.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Saint trinity, that's gorgeous. Not sure about the font, but that's a minor issue and if this ever comes to pass I'll never look back.

 

[unmerged(35772)]

OH Gamer, I must say that is outstanding. I like the way the states have been divided up. Being from Iowa I had always been a wee bit miffed about Des Moines being in the southern portion of Iowa. The new provinces make more sense in view of the Indian Cessation treaties.




Cheers, Thorgrimm

 

[dec152000]

Hi,

I'm not familiar with the Victoria mechanics so I may be off base on game specifics. But the changes to California (as well as the stock Vicky map)don't seem to make sense from a geographical perspective. California is basically made up of a coastal range followed by the central valley and then the Sierra Nevada. Dividing CA into only 2 bands (one coastal, one interior) makes it impossible to properly characterize the geography and resources available in each zone.

mm

 

[OHgamer]

Hi,

I'm not familiar with the Victoria mechanics so I may be off base on game specifics. But the changes to California (as well as the stock Vicky map)don't seem to make sense from a geographical perspective. California is basically made up of a coastal range followed by the central valley and then the Sierra Nevada. Dividing CA into only 2 bands (one coastal, one interior) makes it impossible to properly characterize the geography and resources available in each zone.

mm

the problem here is that with California's sheer size if you were to divide CA into those three zones you end up likely having to add more provinces to Califronia, which is a direct cause of California gaining ahistorically high numbers of immigrants in Victoria compared to the historical period. With the need to reduce the number of provinces California has, the split coastal-inland is needed. basically Sacramento and Mariposa will represent the Sierras and interior deserts, and the remainder the coast and central valley. Here the need to balance other gameplay issues makes it necessary to elide some of the geography.