Announcing Clio : A new map for Victoria : Revolutions

[Strategist]

I read the part of Europe being fine and stuff, but can you please remove the western part of Posen and add it to Küstrin or Kottbus and Maybe also add the western part of Liegnitz partially to Kottbus and Partially to Gorlitz. This is just a graphical change, but that would make the map look a lot better if Poland gets to expand into Germany, and also makes a good looking line possible for Russia if it wants to expand westward. Currently Posen will look very bad on the map if Germany looses it.

And then there is another thing, what about using the actual province names, instead of the names that are currently used (Which means basicly just the biggest city in the province.). Of course, I assume that the current one is right in most cases, but in the case I know about, the Netherlands, it is really annoying sometimes.

For the Netherlands, the current names -> the real names:
Amsterdam -> Noord Holland
Rotterdam -> Zuid Holland
Middelburg -> Zeeland
Utrecht - Utrecht
Breda -> Noord Brabant
Leeuwarden -> Friesland
Groningen - Groningen
Assen -> Drenthe
Zwolle -> Overijssel
Arnhem -> Gelderland
Maastricht -> Limburg

Eindhoven should be removed and added to Noord Brabant mostly and a small part to Gelderland.

States Should be 'Holland': Noord Holland, Zuid Holland, Zeeland, 'Utrecht': Utrecht, Gelderland, Overijssel, 'Noord Nederland': Friesland, Groningen, Drenthe, and 'Staatsvlaanderen': Noord Brabant, Limburg which should be a colony at the start and no state.

And then the borders of some of the provinces have to change as well, I will make a picture of that as well.

 

[OHgamer]

We are keeping the city-based province name taxonomy for provinces as is, since that is what the current game is based on.

And if you could provide a map with your ideas for readjusting the borders of Posen/Poznania so I can get a better idea of what you mean, I'd appreciate it.

And a European state having a colony in Europe makes no sense, since it will default become a state on start-up IIRC, or can be made one by the player on day 1.

 

[Strategist]

We are keeping the city-based province name taxonomy for provinces as is, since that is what the current game is based on.

I know that it is currently based on that system, but it makes absolutely no sense in the case of the Netherlands. But well, I can start up my own mod to do things like that if it cant be in this.

And if you are afraid of the hassle that it would be to change it, just let everybody do their own region, I dont think it would take that much time if its divided well enough.

And if you could provide a map with your ideas for readjusting the borders of Posen/Poznania so I can get a better idea of what you mean, I'd appreciate it.

Sure, here you are:

Thats basicly what I mean, you may want to look at some maps of the real poland borders though, as I just did this from memory, and the real map may have to be some more curvy. But I think you see what I mean?

And a European state having a colony in Europe makes no sense, since it will default become a state on start-up IIRC, or can be made one by the player on day 1.

Hmmm, yeah, you are right, didnt think about that. But the thing is that it really was a colony of the Netherlands. Staatsvlaanderen and Staatslimburg both had a governer instead of a queens commisionar, and had no votes in the parliament/chamber. This was to make sure the catholics wouldnt have influence in the protestant Netherlands.

EDIT: Whoops, image resized by Imageshack, wait a second.
EDIT2: Linkified!

 

[unmerged(27589)]

Since Singapore is to be attached to Johor, would Penang be the same? I reckon it's too small for Province Wellesley to be included but still, the strait is quite small at.Malacca, should be renamed as Melaka, just as how it is spelled in Malaya.

By the way, could Brunei get another province? A small speck of Borneo, to seperate Sarawak and Brunei and represent the size of Brunei after James Brooke took over Sarawak.

 

[OHgamer]

Since Singapore is to be attached to Johor, would Penang be the same? I reckon it's too small for Province Wellesley to be included but still, the strait is quite small at.Malacca, should be renamed as Melaka, just as how it is spelled in Malaya.

By the way, could Brunei get another province? A small speck of Borneo, to seperate Sarawak and Brunei and represent the size of Brunei after James Brooke took over Sarawak.

Still working out Malaya, might not be bad idea for Penang to be treated like Singapore.

And very much agree on Borneo.

 

[Strategist]

just to picture up the issue I have with the current map of the Netherlands, I scanned a map from the 1815-1839 united lowlands provinces, and put a picture of the current vicky map next to it. There is quite a difference there...

http://img56.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nederlandcomparisonft9.jpg

 

[mib]

OK kids, here is a little teaser for you.

Xie has done a mockup of most of North America with the new province ideas.

This is just a first step and there are plenty of little fixes to be done.

ignore the base Victoria map underneath, and focus on the colored part of the map.

but for those who want a little glimse into what might be in the not-so-distant future, enjoy.

NOTE : This is a BIG graphic file, I've posted the thumbnail, but the actual file size is 1.4 Mb so be warned if you have a slow connection.

Unless my North Cal geography (from playing Fallout 2) fails me, Klamath Falls should be more to the west?

 

[corporateslave]

Unless my North Cal geography (from playing Fallout 2) fails me, Klamath Falls should be more to the west?

Klamath Falls is in south-central Oregon. The city itself is just slightly west of the centerpoint of Oregon, but the city (and the county it sits in) are located on the eastern slopes of the Cascades mountain range. As such, I think the geography is fine.

 

[Cagliostro]

Does Tibet really need so many provinces? Someone expert should speak to that. The Amazon could certainly lose some.

As to additions, I'd like to see the sizable islands that are incorporated into land provinces rewritten.
Also, a lot of the issues of immigration could be handled by fixing the life levels in the existing provinces.

In terms of the teaser map, I like it - it's pretty. But why so many missing province names? New Jersey is easy enough - Trenton, Princeton, Atlantic City are pretty important burgs. Was any thought given to making Long Island a separate province? Also, the province two south of Washington is sort of funny-looking....
In terms of the Appalachian area, I'd make more of a division near the mountains, which were Union sympathetic, and the lowlands, which were stalwart Confederate. This particularly holds true for the Carolinas, Kentucky and Tennessee.

 

[OHgamer]

Does Tibet really need so many provinces? Someone expert should speak to that. The Amazon could certainly lose some.

As to additions, I'd like to see the sizable islands that are incorporated into land provinces rewritten.
Also, a lot of the issues of immigration could be handled by fixing the life levels in the existing provinces.

In terms of the teaser map, I like it - it's pretty. But why so many missing province names? New Jersey is easy enough - Trenton, Princeton, Atlantic City are pretty important burgs. Was any thought given to making Long Island a separate province? Also, the province two south of Washington is sort of funny-looking....
In terms of the Appalachian area, I'd make more of a division near the mountains, which were Union sympathetic, and the lowlands, which were stalwart Confederate. This particularly holds true for the Carolinas, Kentucky and Tennessee.

Names aren't missing - like I stated above it's a teaser from a work in progress. Defintiely in regards to the names for provinces we have the list, they just have not yet been added at the time this screenshot was made. Though to be honest why in the world would anyone use Princeton for North NJ - it's pretty much right outside Trenton. The NJ provinces will be Newark, Trenton and Atlantic City.

As for the 2 provinces S of DC - that is taken directly from the game and is vital to ensuring the ability of the Confederacy to have a chance to defend Richmond in the Civil War.

Northern NC is getting a 4th province to split the northern half. As for KY and TN there are Appalachian provinces in (E KY, 2 E TN) so that is taken care of.

As for Tibet and Amazonia, will cross that bridge when we get to it, though we have 114 free province IDs at this point so we are not exactly hurting for extras, where possible I'd prefer to leave the current number of provinces for nations as they are or add to them, not reduce in any way if not needed. Some redistribution within nations may be called for, but for most areas the goal is to end up with at least the same number of provinces in Clio as in the base Victoria map.

 

[Gaius Marius I]

I'd like to talk to you about a couple of things.

First off, NWT looks good, probably alot better than my mockup a week or so ago.

But Alberta...

I have some suggestions for alterations:

1)split the southern half of banff off, create Fort Macleod (allows to simulate that more than one rail line eventually crossed the rockies, and banff shouldn't give access into so many provinces

2)split the south part of heatherwood off, create jasper (to simulate our second national railway, the CNR, which ran through jasper.)

3)fold the rest of heatherwood into edmonton and athabaska landing, there is no reason for it, and as your convention is to stick with city names as much as possible, i can assure you that no such town exists, least not significant enough to warrant a province named after it.

4)enlarge calgary slightly to the north and east, taking small sections of edmonton and denwood. This would reflect a more equal stance with edmonton, and this city rivalry was big in the vic period, as both competed to be the capital city in alberta.

5)'Denwood' is another name i've never heard of. I could pick a town for you to give a better name for the province, if you like, but what you have now is alien to this Albertan...

thanks for your time,

GM

p.s. any chance we can get a strip in missisippi to represent vicksburg?

 

[Gaius Marius I]

the problem here is that with California's sheer size if you were to divide CA into those three zones you end up likely having to add more provinces to Califronia, which is a direct cause of California gaining ahistorically high numbers of immigrants in Victoria compared to the historical period.

Actually, i've tested with a mod i made for vic 1.4, and splitting up california as it is now in basic vic, into 2 states, does not reduce immigration. Even with the 3 southern us california provs as a state on their own, they had as much immigration as the others that make up northern and central california. It would seem that the province IDs themselves in california are hardcoded to accept the majority of immigrants (overwhelming majority in my latest 1.4 game, can't say about revolutions since i don't have it).

 

[OHgamer]

I'd like to talk to you about a couple of things.

First off, NWT looks good, probably alot better than my mockup a week or so ago.

But Alberta...

I have some suggestions for alterations:

1)split the southern half of banff off, create Fort Macleod (allows to simulate that more than one rail line eventually crossed the rockies, and banff shouldn't give access into so many provinces

we've been debating this for a bit now, and have decided to split off S Banff.

2)split the south part of heatherwood off, create jasper (to simulate our second national railway, the CNR, which ran through jasper.)

3)fold the rest of heatherwood into edmonton and athabaska landing, there is no reason for it, and as your convention is to stick with city names as much as possible, i can assure you that no such town exists, least not significant enough to warrant a province named after it.

will keep the province as is, and rename to Jasper.

4)enlarge calgary slightly to the north and east, taking small sections of edmonton and denwood. This would reflect a more equal stance with edmonton, and this city rivalry was big in the vic period, as both competed to be the capital city in alberta.

Physical size of the provinces won't matter so much esp since the lands you'd want switched are pretty low population in this era. I think in terms of numbers they will match up fairly similarly with current borders and be able to reflect the rivalry fine.

5)'Denwood' is another name i've never heard of. I could pick a town for you to give a better name for the province, if you like, but what you have now is alien to this Albertan...

thanks for your time,

GM

Denwood is the original name for Wainwright, the current name of the region in Victoria. We've gone with the original name of the settlement.

p.s. any chance we can get a strip in missisippi to represent vicksburg?

The north mississippi province will be Vicksburg

 

[OHgamer]

Actually, i've tested with a mod i made for vic 1.4, and splitting up california as it is now in basic vic, into 2 states, does not reduce immigration. Even with the 3 southern us california provs as a state on their own, they had as much immigration as the others that make up northern and central california. It would seem that the province IDs themselves in california are hardcoded to accept the majority of immigrants (overwhelming majority in my latest 1.4 game, can't say about revolutions since i don't have it).

Part of this could be the impact of Asian immigration, since immigrants from Asia tend to migrate to the West Coast first, so if you have a game with heavy Asian immigraiton even splitting CA into 2 may not be enough to balance the issue.

I will check to confirm that the basis is not province ids though.

 

[OHgamer]

Updated North America with province names in and some minor changes in places like Alberta.

See post #337 for updated map

A couple questions regarding province name font

1) Should the font be larger for larger provinces or a standardized font that would be based on smaller size font for smaller provinces

2) should the name of the province be condensed (as it currently is in Victoria's map) or should it be more widely spaced to fit the size of the province?

 

[Gaius Marius I]

Part of this could be the impact of Asian immigration, since immigrants from Asia tend to migrate to the West Coast first, so if you have a game with heavy Asian immigraiton even splitting CA into 2 may not be enough to balance the issue.

I will check to confirm that the basis is not province ids though.

It seemed to be pops in general flooding there... eastern slavs, nanfangren, italians, germans, french, you name it. I wasn't paying close enough attention to when the immigrant flood became exclusively californian, but considering that all the provinces in both states have between 1 and 2 million people (or more) in 1880, i'd say its been that way since at least the 1850s.

I'll watch for your reply re: the province ids, to know if i should do some more state reworking to redistribute the immigrants.

*goes off to check NA map changes*

 

[unmerged(55206)]

The north american map is nice are you going to post an updated map of the rest of the world?

 

[Gaius Marius I]

Looking at the map...

I was perhaps not giving the better reason for my boundary shifts...

There really shouldn't be any access from edmonton directly to banff. It should be that we have 3 connections across alberta:

Edmonton-Jasper --> into BC
Calgary-Banff ---> into BC
Medicine Hat-Fort Macleod ---> into BC

when RR are built in vicky, the 2 south routes should join at a single province in BC, and the northern route should move into a another separate province in BC

As it stands, jasper is far too large and much of it too far north. It should be another narrow strip, like banff and fort macleod. Should probably cut off access from jasper into vernon as well, i just can't see that kind of connection as far as RR, moving armies, etc are concerned.

I was also thinking of where a capital icon would go, if vic had them for states. The setup as is would have left edmonton and calgary on the northern edges of their respective provinces, as is. I guess its not important as the issue isn't there in vic, but i thought the map might as well be good geographically.

As to the US, you may consider flipping the locations of manassas and fredericksburg in northern virginia.

I actually kind of like the font your using now, but maybe its just that it jives well with your colorized provinces... the size seems fine, just go with a smaller, perhaps more bolded version for the smaller provinces.

Good that Vicksburg will be in, but i don't see that it made control of that much of missisippi possible.

GM

 

[OHgamer]

The north american map is nice are you going to post an updated map of the rest of the world?

As regions are reworked they will be posted. North America is the first region we've worked on.

 

[OHgamer]

Looking at the map...

I was perhaps not giving the better reason for my boundary shifts...

There really shouldn't be any access from edmonton directly to banff. It should be that we have 3 connections across alberta:

Edmonton-Jasper --> into BC
Calgary-Banff ---> into BC
Medicine Hat-Fort Macleod ---> into BC

when RR are built in vicky, the 2 south routes should join at a single province in BC, and the northern route should move into a another separate province in BC

As it stands, jasper is far too large and much of it too far north. It should be another narrow strip, like banff and fort macleod. Should probably cut off access from jasper into vernon as well, i just can't see that kind of connection as far as RR, moving armies, etc are concerned.

I was also thinking of where a capital icon would go, if vic had them for states. The setup as is would have left edmonton and calgary on the northern edges of their respective provinces, as is. I guess its not important as the issue isn't there in vic, but i thought the map might as well be good geographically.

could you post an image to show what you'd like to see, not quite clear how it should be envisioned.

As to the US, you may consider flipping the locations of manassas and fredericksburg in northern virginia.

oops - shows how much i play the USA o

I actually kind of like the font your using now, but maybe its just that it jives well with your colorized provinces... the size seems fine, just go with a smaller, perhaps more bolded version for the smaller provinces.

Good that Vicksburg will be in, but i don't see that it made control of that much of missisippi possible.

GM

Well only 3 provinces for Mississippi, could probably extend Jackson up northeastward