Anti-World Conquest events

unmerged(5386) · Aug 17, 2002

Originally posted by VultureGFF
If you include them, pls make installing them a fantasy option... Like the BYZ events...

OK make them an option but don't call it "fantasy option", call it "realistic option".

unmerged(7564) · Aug 18, 2002

I like these ideas and events. Aren't people bored with WC yet? Seeking more realistic challenge?

Although I agree with Johnny Canuck and several others when they say that the province number = 25 will be too rough for certain nations which are historically supposed to be big, either through conquest or colonization (Russia, Ottomans, Spain, Portugal, France, England, etc.). Perhaps BB is the way to go?

unmerged(2456) · Aug 18, 2002

Additionally I don't see the rationale for mass fortress reductions in an unstable militarily succesful country. Success tends to breed success, and if the country is unstable the army is usually the last thing ignored, not the first.

Well first i had people say it shouldn't happen at high stability, and now low stability...well you can't have it both ways...and historically things like this did happen several times over. This happened to some extend in inner roman empire, some of the khanates (the ones that actually survived for a time), in China during certain eras, later in histroy this is shown to have happened also...

Its a known fact that, taken as a whole, people in times of peace and security will do other jobs outside the military and the military will have its budget cut, but never completely gone...people and governments aren't stupid to leave themselves totally defenseless.

Although I agree with Johnny Canuck and several others when they say that the province number = 25 will be too rough for certain nations which are historically supposed to be big, either through conquest or colonization (Russia, Ottomans, Spain, Portugal, France, England, etc.). Perhaps BB is the way to go?

Maybe a combination of both or seperate events for those countries specifically then because as i posted before, going strictly with BB will hurt minors far more than it will those countries who are already in a better position for WC.

If you'll note i have 2 events for each...the major change in them is the countrysize trigger because i knew that colonials nations would get bigger than 25 over time and they shouldn't be punished in the same way as someone who conquers that many provinces.

unmerged(2456) · Aug 18, 2002

I also would perfer paradox to fix this problem, but they aren't going to, not unless its because of a bug and most bugs don't deal with that.

Jayavarman · Aug 18, 2002

I think with good suggestions and enough petitioning, we could convince Paradox to make some changes. It's not like they can't do that anymore.

unmerged(2456) · Aug 18, 2002

Originally posted by Phillip V
I think with good suggestions and enough petitioning, we could convince Paradox to make some changes. It's not like they can't do that anymore.

Well its the fact that they have too many bugs to fix already, and the number keeps growing...atleast 50 of those about 200 unsolved ones a major or worse. Plus they got other projects they work on so i doubt it, unless maybe by 1.09 or so, if then and if they keep making that many patches.

unmerged(9167) · Aug 18, 2002

Plus they got other projects they work on so i doubt it, unless maybe by 1.09 or so, if then and if they keep making that many patches.

So, EU had 1.10

How about trying to beat it

Johnny Canuck · Aug 18, 2002

Originally posted by Jinnai
Maybe a combination of both or seperate events for those countries specifically then because as i posted before, going strictly with BB will hurt minors far more than it will those countries who are already in a better position for WC.

If you'll note i have 2 events for each...the major change in them is the countrysize trigger because i knew that colonials nations would get bigger than 25 over time and they shouldn't be punished in the same way as someone who conquers that many provinces.

Perhaps the triggers could be combined - have the events require, say, 25 provinces & a BB of 35. Thus, a minor that has annexed a couple of other minors doesn't get hit, & a peaceful colonial nation doesn't get hit either.

unmerged(2456) · Aug 19, 2002

Originally posted by Johnny Canuck

Perhaps the triggers could be combined - have the events require, say, 25 provinces & a BB of 35. Thus, a minor that has annexed a couple of other minors doesn't get hit, & a peaceful colonial nation doesn't get hit either.

The last i could go for that, but the middle 2 would probably happen to even a peaceful colonizer.

Sute]{h · Aug 19, 2002

I support these event, but some of them is to extreme. I think you should tone down the penalties. Events are ment to add flavor, these could very well destroy a unlucky empire. +30 inflation, -3000 ducats, +15 revolt risk and -10 stability are all over the top. If you divide them by 3 your closer to something acceptable IMHO.

unmerged(7564) · Aug 19, 2002

Originally posted by Sute]{h
I support these event, but some of them is to extreme. I think you should tone down the penalties. Events are ment to add flavor, these could very well destroy a unlucky empire. +30 inflation, -3000 ducats, +15 revolt risk and -10 stability are all over the top. If you divide them by 3 your closer to something acceptable IMHO.

I tend to agree with Sute]{h. Sounds like a reasonable suggestion to me.

unmerged(6159) · Aug 19, 2002

I tend to favour stronger penalties, and toning these down by a factor of 3 would be too little, unless the events happen 3 times as often.

I am very concerned about how these will affect Portugal and Holland. These will tend to have about 5-10 citied, but could easly exceed 40 provinces due to TPs. I don't think size should be penalized, just BB, although I can see the motivation for scaling the penalties.

AlanC9 · Aug 19, 2002

We could add a check for the capital location. If it's the capital of one of the historical colonizers, then the event doesn't fire.

If we do this, we'd also want to have versions of the event that fire for anybody, but with a highher countrysize threshold

unmerged(7564) · Aug 19, 2002

Originally posted by Isaac Brock
I tend to favour stronger penalties, and toning these down by a factor of 3 would be too little, unless the events happen 3 times as often.

I am very concerned about how these will affect Portugal and Holland. These will tend to have about 5-10 citied, but could easly exceed 40 provinces due to TPs. I don't think size should be penalized, just BB, although I can see the motivation for scaling the penalties.

How about a compromise? Tone them down by 1/4, 1/3, 1/2? I like the events, I just think it is a little too harsh.

I am also very concerned about the colonizing nations (Portugal/Holland).

AlanC9's idea to deal with that was pretty good, especially since you (at least I) don't normally see Portugal / Holland warmongering, and the second set of events, with the higher #province theshold, I could see those being pretty harsh...

unmerged(2456) · Aug 19, 2002

As there seems to be a consensus to use badboy for these events i've modified them as follows:

Code:

[color=red]
event = {
id = XXXX
random = yes
trigger = { { atwar = no
	    badboy = 35
	    countrysize = 35
	    stability = 0 }
	name = "Desertion and Degredation of the Military"
	desc = "Do to the overwhelming fear and might our country has on the rest of the world, the populace has become complacent and lax. This extends even to the military where there training suffers, fortresses are left to nature and desertion is commonplace."
	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	offset = 300
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = decemeber year = 1600 }

	action_a = {
		name = "How can this be!?"
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = land value = -1000 }
		command = { type = naval value = -1000 }
		command = { type = domestic which = quality value = -1 }
		command = { type = MIL which = -1 value = 180 }
		command = { type = fortress which = -2 value = -1 }
		command = { type = fortress which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = fortress which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = fortress which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = fortress which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = manpower value = -3 }
	}
}
event = {
id = XXXX
random = yes
trigger = { { atwar = no
	    badboy = 35
	    countrysize = 50
	    stability = 0 }
	name = "Desertion and Degredation of the Military"
	desc = "Do to the overwhelming fear and might our country has on the rest of the world, the populace has become complacent and lax. This extends even to the military where there training suffers, fortresses are left to nature and desertion is commonplace."
	style = 3
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1601 }
	offset = 300
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = decemeber year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "How can this be!?"
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = land value = -1000 }
		command = { type = naval value = -1000 }
		command = { type = domestic which = quality value = -1 }
		command = { type = MIL which = -1 value = 180 }
		command = { type = fortress which = -2 value = -1 }
		command = { type = fortress which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = fortress which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = fortress which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = fortress which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = manpower value = -3 }
	}
}

event = {
id = XXXX
random = yes
	trigger = { 
		  OR = { countrysize = 45
			 badboy = 40 }
	    domestic = { type = centralizartion value = 6} }
	name = "Overly Stretched Beuracracy"
	desc = "The pace of our beurocratic system has been unable to keep up with the increase in the size of our nation and has now become critical. If we don't do something now, there will be severe consiquences for us."
	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	offset = 300
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = decemeber year = 1600 }

	action_a = {
		name = "Impliment Reforms!"
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -2000 }
	}

	action_b = {
		name = "Minor Reforms"
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		command = { type = loansize value = -50 }
		command = { type = treasury = value = -1000 }
		command = { type = infra value = -200 }
	}

	action_c = {
		name = "Ignore the Situation"
		command = { type = stability 	value = -3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -2 }
		command = { type = loansize value = -100 }
		command = { type = infra value = -500 }
		command = { type = inflation value = 5 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
	}
}

event = {
	id = XXXX
	random = yes
	trigger = { 
		  OR = { countrysize = 80
			 badboy = 40 }
	    domestic = { type = centralizartion value = 6} }
	name = "Overly Stretched Beuracracy"
	desc = "The pace of our beurocratic system has been unable to keep up with the increase in the size of our nation and has now become critical. If we don't do something now, there will be severe consiquences for us."
	style = 3
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1601 }
	offset = 300
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = decemeber year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "Impliment Reforms!"
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -3000 }
	}

	action_b = {
		name = "Minor Reforms"
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		command = { type = loansize value = -50 }
		command = { type = treasury = value = -1500 }
		command = { type = infra value = -400 }
	}

	action_c = {
		name = "Ignore the Situation"
		command = { type = stability value = -3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -2 }
		command = { type = loansize value = -100 }
		command = { type = infra value = -1000 }
		command = { type = inflation value = 5 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
	}
}

event = {
	id = XXXX
	random = yes
	trigger = { 
		  OR = { countrysize = 45
			 badboy = 40 }
		  NOT = { domestic = { type = centralizartion value = 5} } }
	name = "Nobility Ignoring Orders!"
	desc = "The nobility and some of the govenors are refusing or, at the best, not completely enforcing your decrees unless it suits them. This is known to happen from time to time, it has become commonplace and we do not have the beurocratic power to stop them. While they are not openly defying you right now presuring them may change there attidude, but do nothing and we will be left at there mercy."
	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	offset = 300
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = decemeber year = 1600 }

	action_a = {
		name = "Force them to comply by force!"
		command = { type = stability value = -10 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = offensive value = 1 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 500 value = 15 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -500 }
	}

	action_b = {
		name = "Force them to comply diplomatically!"
		command = { type = stability value = -5 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristorcracy value = -1 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -3000 }
		command = { type = diplomats value = -6 }
	}

	action_c = {
		name = "Let the issue slide."
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristorcracy value = 3 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
	}
}

event = {
	id = XXXX
	random = yes
	trigger = { 
		  OR = { countrysize = 80
			 badboy = 40 }
		  NOT = { domestic = { type = centralizartion value = 5} } }
	name = "Nobility Ignoring Orders!"
	desc = "The nobility and some of the govenors are refusing or, at the best, not completely enforcing your decrees unless it suits them. This is known to happen from time to time, it has become commonplace and we do not have the beurocratic power to stop them. While they are not openly defying you right now presuring them may change there attidude, but do nothing and we will be left at there mercy."
	style = 3
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1601 }
	offset = 300
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = decemeber year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "Force them to comply by force!"
		command = { type = stability value = -10 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = offensive value = 1 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 500 value = 15 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -1000 }
	}

	action_b = {
		name = "Force them to comply diplomatically!"
		command = { type = stability value = -5 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristorcracy value = -1 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -5000 }
		command = { type = diplomats value = -6 }
	}

	action_c = {
		name = "Let the issue slide."
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristorcracy value = 3 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -2 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -2 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -2 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -2 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -2 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -2 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -2 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -2 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -2 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -2 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -2 }
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = -3 value = -1 }
	}
}

event = {
	id = XXXX
	random = no
	trigger = { { countrysize = 25
		      badboy = 35 }
		  NOT = { domestic = { type = innovative value = 5} } }
	name = "Massive Religious Uprisings"
	desc = "With the growth in the size of our empire we've absorbed multiple cultures and religions into our nation, but our singling out of our faith has caused us no end of troubles and now it looks as things are about to boil over."
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	offset = 300
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = decemeber year = 1600 }

	action_a = {
		name = "We shall not give into them!"
		command = { type = stability value = -3 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 240 value = 3 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
	}

	action_b = {
		name = "Try to head off this disaster!"
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 1 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -300 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk value = 2 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
	}
}

event = {
	id = XXXX
	random = no
	trigger = { { countrysize = 40
		      badboy = 35 }
		  NOT = { domestic = { type = innovative value = 5} } }
	name = "Massive Religious Uprisings"
	desc = "With the growth in the size of our empire we've absorbed multiple cultures and religions into our nation, but our singling out of our faith has caused us no end of troubles and now it looks as things are about to boil over."
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1601 }
	offset = 300
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = decemeber year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "We shall not give into them!"
		command = { type = stability value = -3 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 240 value = 3 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
	}

	action_b = {
		name = "Try to head off this disaster!"
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 1 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -500 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk value = 2 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
	}
}

event = {
	id = XXXX
	random = no
	trigger = { { countrysize = 25
		      badboy = 35 }
		  domestic = { type = innovative value = 5} }
	name = "Innovativeness caused Hyperinflation"
	desc = "Our country has aspired to welcome new ideas, culures and beliefs and this has brought no end of encomic growth to our nation. However, a flood of recent ideas and concepts have overwhelmed our encomy and its spiraling out of control!"
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	offset = 300
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = decemeber year = 1600 }

	action_a = {
		name = "This can't be!"
		command = { type = stability value = -2 }
		command = { type = inflation value = 25 }
		command = { type = infra value = 50 }
		command = { type = trade value = 50 }
		command = { type = land value = 50 }
		command = { type = naval value = 50 }
	}
}

event = {
	id = XXXX
	random = no
	trigger = { { countrysize = 25
		      badboy = 35 }
		  domestic = { type = innovative value = 5} }
	name = "Innovativeness caused Hyperinflation"
	desc = "Our country has aspired to welcome new ideas, culures and beliefs and this has brought no end of encomic growth to our nation. However, a flood of recent ideas and concepts have overwhelmed our encomy and its spiraling out of control!"
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1600 }
	offset = 300
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = decemeber year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "This can't be!"
		command = { type = stability value = -2 }
		command = { type = inflation value = 35 }
		command = { type = infra value = 100 }
		command = { type = trade value = 100 }
		command = { type = land value = 100 }
		command = { type = naval value = 100 }
	}
}

[/color]
For the rest (scaling. order, etc) there doesn't really seem to be any sort of consenus so i'm not modifying them...

Oh...i also changed the 1st to so stability must be greater than 0...the argument given here was more convincing that in the other forum i posted my original for that...i also may have more event ideas also coming.

unmerged(6159) · Aug 19, 2002

I definitely like these. I also agree with AlanC9's idea of triggering them on the capital not being Amsterdam or Lisbon - so long as equivelent events are added for Portugal and Holland that have a higher country size threshold (say double).

I'm investigating random event incidence right now. My test shows a mean event seperation of a little over 400 days, although it looks like there is a (maybe) 10% chance that it's about double that. I'll post when my test is done.

Belissarius · Aug 19, 2002

Some of the Events are a good base start but Size is the key and bb. i think both are too low. Also i dont think the logic holds for the military events. Attirion is already worked into the game. Armies swell when they are victorious not diminish. Your logic as to why is coherient BUT thats not how armies behave if history is a means to go by. Atrrition is always a problem in armies of the era, period, but this is factored into the game. The buracratic events make sence but and this is a big BUT special events should be rewritten for big or colonial nations. As has been stated above. Hell just creating the historic Ottoman. russian and perhaps british Empires will result in these events. I'm not too keen on that.

The base idea is great and is the start of a good series of events they just have to be modified and hopefuly we can create a Large nations events for the same thing.

unmerged(6159) · Aug 19, 2002

Realistically how much BB did the historic Ottoman expansion get them? Or indeed the Russian? I think the British example is moot as I can't imagine their BB (in real life) reaching 35. (OK there is the 7 years war, but that can't happen in game - would be better simulated as lots of TPs being burned.

BB of 35 is pretty high. I don't see the AI reach it too often.

Peter Ebbesen · Aug 19, 2002

Originally posted by Isaac Brock

BB of 35 is pretty high. I don't see the AI reach it too often.

France, Denmark, and the Timurids quite often reach these levels. And if the Timurids survive to become Mughals, up goes the BB

(Of course, the Timurids have the advantage of starting at 30BB)

AlanC9 · Aug 20, 2002

Denmark?

Anti-World Conquest events

Citizen

Major

Pure Evil Genius

Pure Evil Genius

★ ★ ★ ★ ★

Pure Evil Genius

Imperator Universalis

Field Marshal

Pure Evil Genius

Field Marshal

Major

Field Marshal

Field Marshal

Major

Pure Evil Genius

Field Marshal

The Gothfather

Field Marshal

the Conqueror

Field Marshal