Any way to turn off the Witch nonsense?

[Meka66]

Regardless, there never was such thing as "witch covens" widespread throughout royal dynasties. There is no such things as "witches" in reality. Why not give those of us who want to have a somewhat realistic game an option to turn it off?

No, there are and were witches in reality. The game doesn’t include supernatural powers for them.

As for a more realistic game, I do hope in the future we get a refinement of folk magic practice. The disease resistance buff for witch coven, as well as the option from Northern Lords to help a courtier out with their curse, implies that we’re working with more benevolent folk magic, while the terms witch and witchcraft are more often reserved for malevolent magic.

In any case, the witch stuff in game is no more supernatural than any of the other religious stuff; that is, its all explainable by belief.

Complex subject, yeah. Witch content is following some pretty anachronistic ideas right now. I would like to eventually do something to make it a bit more about the idea of non-clerical magic and stuff like that, but it's no small task.

But yeah one consistent thing is we don't have actual magic in the way that CK2 did.

 

[kawamuratc]

But yeah one consistent thing is we don't have actual magic in the way that CK2 did.

Y’all could fix that.

 

[Meka66]

Y’all could fix that.

Lmao, no. The decision was made early on that supernatural content and characters regrowing limbs because they worship Satan so hard was not something we wanted to do, and it's a decision I agree with. This isn't the type of content we want to focus our time on.

 

[kawamuratc]

Lmao, no. The decision was made early on that supernatural content and characters regrowing limbs because they worship Satan so hard was not something we wanted to do, and it's a decision I agree with. This isn't the type of content we want to focus our time on.

What about if I give you cool memes? I got a wonderful collection.

(I know, don’t worry. But I will always ask for more supernatural like a child asking for a pony )

 

[Darrenb209]

Lmao, no. The decision was made early on that supernatural content and characters regrowing limbs because they worship Satan so hard was not something we wanted to do, and it's a decision I agree with. This isn't the type of content we want to focus our time on.

I can understand the decision but it's still a bit of a shame. The supernatural events when they weren't being spammed always added a bit of hilarity/over the top-ness/utter insanity when the game started to slow down a bit.

 

[DominusNovus]

There really weren't. The whole "Witch Cult" hypothesis has been pretty conclusively debunked.

Not only this, but the obsession with witches and burning them dates from the EU4 period, and then, they projected their own crimes back onto the medieval period.

 

[Gwydden]

Not only this, but the obsession with witches and burning them dates from the EU4 period, and then, they projected their own crimes back onto the medieval period.

It's a bit like having the men in black in Victoria 3. Not only is it a conspiracy theory; it's one from the wrong period. Medieval people certainly had their own conspiracy theories, but they were more along the lines of "the Jews ritually sacrifice Christian children and drink their blood" or "the Jews are colluding with lepers to poison the water supply" and so on.

 

[WeeLittleSpoon]

Turning it off would do the trick.

Alternatively maybe being able to tell them to stop the witchery? If I can somehow feasibly demand a zealous muslim holy order member to stop being a muslim... But turning it off seems far easier and cleaner.

Well, here's a simple mod. I haven't tested it, except to check the error log and make sure that it runs without giving new errors, but it should theoretically do what you want. It comes with a simple game rule so you can toggle it between having no witches ever, secrets only, or normal witches (default is no witches).

There wasn't actually a lot to change to just turn it off. Essentially, there's one effect that gets used repeatedly to give the witch trait, and limiting that to only work when the game rule is on was relatively simple (plus a few other lone instances that had to be adjusted). The effect which gives the secret or the trait now will give either depending on what game rule you have set, and if you have it set to no witches, it will instead give someone a loss of 250 piety for engaging with witchy things. So, technically, witches still exist, but mechanically they won't have the trait or secret, and they should be no greater effect on your game than a flavourful loss of piety.

As an aside, this does overwrite some of the base game files, so it might not work well with any other mods you have that also affect the same files. I don't think that's very likely, but just so you know.

Someone could definitely make a much better mod with more options, such as dealing with witches and asking them to stop, but for forty minutes of work plus some fumbling around with how to upload a mod, it is what it is.

If it doesn't do what you want, please let me know.

To install it, unzip the attached .zip into C:\Users\YourName\Documents\Paradox Interactive\Crusader Kings III\mod and it should be accessible in game once you put it into a playset.

 

[bestbrian]

It's a bit like having the men in black in Victoria 3. Not only is it a conspiracy theory; it's one from the wrong period. Medieval people certainly had their own conspiracy theories, but they were more along the lines of "the Jews ritually sacrifice Christian children and drink their blood" or "the Jews are colluding with lepers to poison the water supply" and so on.

Damn shame about how perniciously sticky this nonsense is that it never goes away.

 

[Aregodas]

Lmao, no. The decision was made early on that supernatural content and characters regrowing limbs because they worship Satan so hard was not something we wanted to do, and it's a decision I agree with. This isn't the type of content we want to focus our time on.

I actually like that you're not going for that kind of supernatural stuff like immortality or regrowing limbs... let's call it the "ludicrous" kind of supernatural. However, there is a more mundane kind of supernatural that, despite how counter-intuitive it might sound for some people since we are discussing "the supernatural" would, in fact, add historical realism to the game; that is, mysticism and all that jazz.
The idea of miracle working, holy relics or being "contacted by the divine" was very widespread throughout western Europe; every single papal bull declaring a new Crusade would send ripples all throughout the continent causing the most debout to have fits of religiosity. It would be a good adittion to the game, specially when you consider that religion was super important for every day life and it's a little bit underrepresented as it is right now.

And before anyone comes in defense of actual "realism"... just, read some books on the subject of crusading, pilgrimage or any other medieval such. What we now understand as unrealistic absurdity was very much part of their reality and life.

 

[Silverbow]

Well, here's a simple mod. I haven't tested it, except to check the error log and make sure that it runs without giving new errors, but it should theoretically do what you want. It comes with a simple game rule so you can toggle it between having no witches ever, secrets only, or normal witches (default is no witches).

There wasn't actually a lot to change to just turn it off. Essentially, there's one effect that gets used repeatedly to give the witch trait, and limiting that to only work when the game rule is on was relatively simple (plus a few other lone instances that had to be adjusted). The effect which gives the secret or the trait now will give either depending on what game rule you have set, and if you have it set to no witches, it will instead give someone a loss of 250 piety for engaging with witchy things. So, technically, witches still exist, but mechanically they won't have the trait or secret, and they should be no greater effect on your game than a flavourful loss of piety.

As an aside, this does overwrite some of the base game files, so it might not work well with any other mods you have that also affect the same files. I don't think that's very likely, but just so you know.

Someone could definitely make a much better mod with more options, such as dealing with witches and asking them to stop, but for forty minutes of work plus some fumbling around with how to upload a mod, it is what it is.

If it doesn't do what you want, please let me know.

To install it, unzip the attached .zip into C:\Users\YourName\Documents\Paradox Interactive\Crusader Kings III\mod and it should be accessible in game once you put it into a playset.

Thank you so much, that's awesome! Will try it out soon!

 

[vandevere]

Complex subject, yeah. Witch content is following some pretty anachronistic ideas right now. I would like to eventually do something to make it a bit more about the idea of non-clerical magic and stuff like that, but it's no small task.

But yeah one consistent thing is we don't have actual magic in the way that CK2 did.

Please, no Real Life Dark Powers like what CK2 had!

Witches were a fear of the peasantry in the Middle Ages, but they were really more likely to meddle with herbs and stuff than anything like Satanic Powers. It's likely that aspirin and Ginger Tea were what REAL Medieval Witches used back then, and ergot and mushrooms too.

 

[IanReSc]

Why?

If you do this, you lose a lot of Imprisonment Reason and Title Revocation Reasons against your Vassals.

The more your faiths forbids = The better for you, because you can easily revoke their titles and imprison them without being viewed as Tyrant.

Because I enjoy a deviant religion and I don't like abusing the revoking part of the game. It feels gamey to me.

 

[klopkr]

Rulers being witches is historically accurate for large parts of the map... just not really in any of the areas where it's criminal, and not at all like it's depicted.

The witch system always felt like a lil extra nugget they threw into vanilla as someones side project. It's really limited and not really well done. I wonder if it was something to do with finding a middle ground between the satanic society from CK2 and their "attempt to be more historical".

 

[Comrade_Boris]

I feel like parts of the witch system are well done, like generated witch NPCs being portrayed as wise people with unique/peasant knowledge. I just wish the flavor text for when one is a witch leaned more into this than the satanism/evil cult. I think playing into witches being odd but knowledgeable is more fitting for the era since one would expect especially in CK3s timeline that old pagan/pre-reformed religious practices have not been very thoroughly stamped out even if on paper people are Christian/Muslim/etc. (Even more so in the eastern reaches of the maps where ancient ancestor worship and the like continue to be practiced to this day in parallel with "typical religions")

 

[Voy]

There are pretty famous people back then who believed they could do magic though. And we don't even know the wives of most rulers and even less their secret occult obsessions. Who's to say? The best I would wish for is a more fleshed-out system and a reliable way to deal with it.

 

[SeraphAscending]

Lmao, no. The decision was made early on that supernatural content and characters regrowing limbs because they worship Satan so hard was not something we wanted to do, and it's a decision I agree with. This isn't the type of content we want to focus our time on.

I am very glad the team decided to leave overtly supernatural stuff out of the vanilla (unmodded) game.
Your current approach of adding new general mechanics and then implementing those with historical believability is very good.

While i do play with some mods that add some magic (occasionally), i much prefer you guys working on more grounded stuff to give us a better base game to mod.

Another issue with adding magic: any other mod that adds magic would work differently (different concepts, after all) and would either be in conflict with, have a lot of overlap or be very odd in combination with the "official" magic. I am very much opposed to having "official" magic for this specific reason.

 

[Venseiiz]

I have written it once, but of course it was ignored.
Buddhist faiths like Theravada should noy have these events. Like wtf, why would Buddhist peassantry with Ahimsa tenet request to burn the witch? I'm pretty sure other Eastern faiths with "Righteous" (or "Witchcraft shunned" and stricter, I am not sure what triggers it) are ridden with this nonsense.

 

[Meka66]

I have written it once, but of course it was ignored.
Buddhist faiths like Theravada should noy have these events. Like wtf, why would Buddhist peassantry with Ahimsa tenet request to burn the witch? I'm pretty sure other Eastern faiths with "Righteous" (or "Witchcraft shunned" and stricter, I am not sure what triggers it) are ridden with this nonsense.

It's not strictly accurate for Western Europe either for the record. Witch trials are much more an EUIV period thing.

 

[WestuHal]

It's not strictly accurate for Western Europe either for the record. Witch trials are much more an EUIV period thing.

Agreed, witch hunting and witch trials are far more an Early Modern phenomenon than a Medieval one (King James I of England and VI of Scotland in the early seventeenth century was particularly exercised about the idea of covens etc., bringing with him a rather more Scottish flavour of anti-witchcraft attitudes into an England which wasn’t really all that bothered and, relatively speaking, never actually put all that many ‘witches’ to death anyway).