• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
All of this putting aside the fact that as currently conceived gestalts would get literally nothing out of such a DLC.
But that is kind of the point, isn’t it? It would create an actually appreciable difference in play style between Gestalts and Individuals.
Internal politics would create new areas for strategy- having a xenophobic populace react negatively (decreased output, lower stability, potential revolt) to a governor of a different race, or governors threatening sector revolts or demanding to be upgraded to a vassal for instance. Stellaris has the most potential of any PDX game in this because of the huge variety of government types could allow all sorts of different mechanics and playstyles. Megacorps could have leaders purchasing leadership of planets/sectors or council seats, or demanding a new policy/edict based on their (obviously abstracted with something like a trait “large shareholder” or the like) owned stocks. Parliamentary systems could have the largest faction demanding a policy/edict, or preventing you from changing to something that they hate- if 60% of your populace is xenophile pacifist, they won’t vote for representatives who will allow purges, etc.
 
  • 6
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
But that is kind of the point, isn’t it? It would create an actually appreciable difference in play style between Gestalts and Individuals.
Internal politics would create new areas for strategy- having a xenophobic populace react negatively (decreased output, lower stability, potential revolt) to a governor of a different race, or governors threatening sector revolts or demanding to be upgraded to a vassal for instance. Stellaris has the most potential of any PDX game in this because of the huge variety of government types could allow all sorts of different mechanics and playstyles. Megacorps could have leaders purchasing leadership of planets/sectors or council seats, or demanding a new policy/edict based on their (obviously abstracted with something like a trait “large shareholder” or the like) owned stocks. Parliamentary systems could have the largest faction demanding a policy/edict, or preventing you from changing to something that they hate- if 60% of your populace is xenophile pacifist, they won’t vote for representatives who will allow purges, etc.
I would be okay with all of that, at least in principle, except that every single DLC that has something unfit for individuals or for gestalts has nothing for gestalts. Galactic Paragons, for instance; gestalts can't get paragons, can't get Destiny traits, and can't customize their council.

I still maintain they should make both gestalt variants (at least on a basic level) available without DLC, to more easily justify the work to customize DLC/new update features to be compatible with them. Such as psionics, trade, leaders, many origins, etc.
 
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions:
Honestly, ever since they removed the ability to mod your armies, they should of just made carriers and larger have free slots fir invasion forces.

Or make the useless torpedo frigate also be a transport ship. It makes no sense to me that your armies are just in completely defenseless ships...
This Is The Way

In interviews, several people from the studio said that they would like to remove grund invasions completely but combining it with a fleet is the best possible option.

Personally, I would also like to see the addition of dedicated anti-planetary weapons to add some strategic decisions to the fleet composition.
 
Last edited:
  • 3Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
Because they clearly will do anything except touch those two mechanics...
Screw ground invasion reworks. Would you ask CK to have a 'one on one soldier' rework? No, the scale is too small.
 
  • 6
  • 4Haha
  • 3
Reactions:
I do not understand why people are obsessed with internal politics.

When driving a car, it's generally not desirable for it to intermittently steer you into oncoming traffic.

The people that like the game because you drive an empire through certain paths will be unhappy because internal politics will mess that up. People who want dynamic storytelling will be unhappy because it will be very difficult to make something that isn't gameable. No one will be happy, and the result will be a series of noob traps and busy work mechanics, with a set of meta optimal paths.

Cosmic storms looks great. There is no point in being upset because you wanted ice cream, but they are serving sticky toffee pudding.
For me, Stellaris has always felt too much like a wargame and not enough like an empire builder.

I agree that internal politics shouldn't mean mechanics for driving your empire off a cliff, but at the same time, I'd like something to do other than paint the galaxy map my empire's color. That would ideally be something with factions and interactions with my worlds other than moving pops around and constructing stuff.
 
  • 7
  • 2Like
  • 2
Reactions:
I've said it before, but my vision of "internal politics" is more like turning the existing faction system into a religion/ideology/culture system. Instead of your pops being spiritualist, pacifist, or whatever, they belong to ideologies (that in turn may be aligned to one of the ethics). In empire creation you can compose your empire's prevailing ideology or culture out of tenets/facets, which determine the faction demands. Maybe the existing simple factions still stick around as default ideologies you can get when factions form later on.

Then your empire's ideologies can spread to other empires, theirs can to you, and cultural assimilation of conquered pops will matter more and be more challenging. That sort of thing.
I would love to see culture added to Stellaris! I would love to see cultural diffusion and empires finding their religions in the form of gods like Numa, Zarqlan, the Toxic god, etc.

I would also like to see civics play a role in factions. We technically have this as fanatic purifiers already have a fanatic purifier demand for their xenophobe faction. Imagine this same thing but for Shared Burdens.
 
I hope the devs never again make the mistake of listening to a loud minority that demands a perfectly functional part of the game to be completely redone. Ground combat is just fine and does not need a rework, especially at the expense of making new content.

Internal politics I'm sure will come sooner or later, but the devs are wise to put it off as long as they have other exciting ideas to work on, because the implementation is sure to be divisive. It's just not easy to please both the camp of smart, deeply immersed players who want complex internal struggles and threats of revolution to navigate, and the large majority of casual players who don't pay attention and would just get constantly screwed over and frustrated by such a system. The latter category is why the machine uprising for example is now a large, easily digested progress bar with warning signs on it, ensuring that anyone with a brain will never actually see it come to fruition anymore. You can't please everyone with stuff like this, so the devs are better off letting ideas for how to do it accumulate for as long as it takes until they're sure they have a good compromise.
 
  • 8
  • 3Like
  • 2
  • 2
Reactions:
It's just not easy to please both the camp of smart, deeply immersed players who want complex internal struggles and threats of revolution to navigate, and the large majority of casual players who don't pay attention and would just get constantly screwed over and frustrated by such a system.
Somehow, saying that anyone who doesn't think an internal politics DLC is a good idea is
1. Not smart
2. A "casual player"
just doesn't convince me that you're right.

It convinces me that you have no genuine argument that this isn't a bad idea, because you resorted to ad hominem instead of making any such defense.

An argument for it may exist, but this isn't one.




P.S. to that one guy that disagreed with "calling people stupid casuals for not wanting an internal politics DLC isn't compelling" - thank you for confirming that nobody has an argument for IP other than ad hominem.
 
Last edited:
  • 10
  • 2
  • 1Like
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
Somehow, saying that anyone who doesn't think an internal politics DLC is a good idea is
1. Not smart
2. A "casual player"
just doesn't convince me that you're right.

It convinces me that you have no genuine argument that this isn't a bad idea, because you resorted to ad hominem instead of making any such defense.

An argument for it may exist, but this isn't one.

Associatively, if my #1 hater who dislikes half my comments but wont actually reply to them wants a thing in Stellaris, I reflexively dont. How bout dem apples for Dinner? *winksmooch*
 
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2Haha
Reactions:
"Your head of research has started a faction against you"

"But he's level 9 with a good destiny trait and the best council-classed replacement I can get would be level 2, the game will be over before he has a Destiny trait"

"LOL too bad, internal politics"

I'm certain we can all agree that "leaders will randomly decide to betray you for no reason" would be a poor implementation of internal politics.
 
  • 11
  • 1Like
Reactions:
This is, as you note, the most obvious with people complaining about GP, AKA "internal politics lite," because your leaders develop impactful negative traits at random.
Leaders getting negative traits out of random is not internal politics. It is salt, not main dish. Main dish is something like:
I'm pacifist, materialist and xenophile empire. I need to select new governor for Abacus Sector. There are three candidates.
Abacus Sector is populated mostly by Spiritualists, because some Holy Artifact of Holiness I found there by accident generate big Spiritualists Attraction for whole sector. I have Spiritualist candidate in rooster, and putting him in charge of Abacus will make local POPs happier on average, which will have positive impact on Stability and therefore production efficiency. On the other hand, he will increase Spiritualist Attraction in sector even more, and his nomination will make Spiritualist Faction stronger in parliament.
Counter-candidate is materialist with industrialist trait, While boost to factories production will not matter much in mostly rural Abacus, he is skilled, so will reduce Spiritualist Attraction while not decreasing stability that much.
Third candidate is an idiot of Militaristic Faction. I would never consider giving him responsibility for anything more complex than pencil, but I played roughly wit Militarists for some time, their loyalty is deep in red, and they are one negative event from starting Rebellion Progress. Rebellion Progress, while almost surely will not result in rebellion (it is called Progress for a reason...), can generate additional hard to foresee negative events. By placating some colonel idiot son, I can brush off this problem.
There is also fourth solution. When I established Abacus Sector, my sector size was limited to 2 star systems from seat of power. Current-day technology increased than number to 4 star systems. By dissolving Abacus and dividing its territory between neighboring sectors, I can dilute HAoH influence over more planets, therefore making it weaker and ensure that Spiritualists will not get majority of votes in any of sectors, therefore decreasing their influence in parliament. It would cost me influence/unity, though.
 
  • 15
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Associatively, if my #1 hater who dislikes half my comments but wont actually reply to them wants a thing in Stellaris, I reflexively dont. How bout dem apples for Dinner? *winksmooch*
I definitely don't dislike comments based on who wrote them. Perhaps I just happen to disagree with a lot of the things you have to say, or the way you are saying them, but not strongly enough to write a whole reply. I advise you take the same approach instead of making up a petty playground rivalry.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Internal politics I can see is a huge DLC, possibly even a core game rework and a nightmare to set up with all the different flavours of governments and factions with the range of starts and civics etc. It can also be hard to do, I know most seem to think it needs to be internal battles with each other which often isn't what is wanted.

For ground combat, it works. It doesn't need to be reworked. I know other games that mix it with fleets and that just weakens the fleets, you end up with an invasion fleet and battle fleet so effectively the same as now just worse with you having to cut your fleet capacity over the invasion doomstack as well and then having multiple designs to keep up to date. If going to remove armies entirely just keep the siege down mechanic as is.
 
I don't get the resistance to more in-depth but strategic ground combat.So much immersion could be added.
To a minor feature of the game.

But the feature could be made bigger!

Yeah, I don't want that.

I'm definitely down for an internal politics rework. Factions, sectors and governors are just staring us in the face...
 
  • 11Like
  • 1
Reactions:
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
I don't think Ground Combat needs a feature revamp as much as it needs another UI/ Utility pass. Right now it's still a nightmare recruiting and maintaining large armies across the galaxy as opposed to the fleet manager system which is by no means perfect but better than non-existent.

Honestly we desperately need some form of filters of species and army type as being a xenophile in the mid-late game makes me dread having to open the starbase recruitment tab to find what I want.
 
  • 10
Reactions:
I don't get the resistance to more in-depth but strategic ground combat.So much immersion could be added.
That is actually simple. I, for one, do no longer believe in unsustained claims of added immersion/strategy/deep. Everyone can argue for everything just stating it will be cool. That is first.

Second, many people on Paradox Plaza treat Stellaris (or any other Paradox game, actually), like it was Stardew Valley. Stardew Valley is a game where main character inherit a farm, and then he can grow plants and sell them, or go fishing, fight monsters, mine, romance with pixelart characters etc etc. What is crucial, these activities are separated from each other. Actually the more you are into the game, the more they are separated, as two activities demanding most player attention - watering plants and feeding animals - can be partially automated. There are also no dangers you have to abide, no rent you have to pay monthly or whatever. As game and design are concerned, you can stop your farming activities for a year, doing nothing but fishing, and still be ok.
Grand strategy games are not Stardew Valley. You cannot snap and glue any new mechanics to existing systems and call it a day - unless you want to read threads that, I don't know, designing your tanks for ground invasion is not exciting enough. What makes grand strategies... strategies, at all, are interconnections between mechanics. To play competitively, you have to pay attention to all elements, at all times. You cannot decide 'ok, for this year of war I do not want to care about military operations, I want to spend some time with economy'.

As number of moving elements and micro in micromanagement increase (and let's face it, Stellaris like to add more micro into micromanagement), there is more and more things attention has to be used for, and the thing in, average person attention span is limited. The more elements there are, the slower player has to play to actually keep track of them, which leads to increase of ratio between player actions, and meaningful things actually happening. When before you had to do 20 clicks to get planet, now you have to do 100 clicks. Start conditions are the same, end conditions are the same, only difference is that you do things 5 times slower.
Standard answer here is 'well, you can automate ground invasions'. Yes, that is true I can just do not play game.

Third aspect is tediousness trying to present itself as deep strategy. Standard vision of ground invasion is something akin of 'Well, lets make units into infantry, tanks and artillery, and then artillery will kill infantry, tanks will kill artillery, and infantry will kill tanks'. Yeah, where strategy? If enemy planet is defended by tanks, I send infantry. If by artillery, I send tanks etc. Start conditions are almost the same, end conditions are exactly the same, I just need to make, like, 10 more clicks to get the same result.

With these arguments against some unspecified ground combat rework, and no arguments in support for it, other than unsustained claims of immersion, I hope I answered your question.
 
  • 8
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions: