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Army Disintergartion BUG MP

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Queen of Pink!
Jun 11, 2003
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Something very odd happened in my WAR III game today, I think it was a bug but the other players dont agree.

Ok its Russia sieging Anhalt being attacked by a strong Austrian force with a goodish leader. I am BB covering them in Hannover with 30k Cav 35k infantry with a 435 leader. Austria attacks and I march to Anhalt my lag is negligable as my order is done without any interruption. Army marches as normal and then bam it arrives and for 1 split second the battle can be seen in the window barely long enough for me to register it. Then I get Army Annihalted popup. Both Russia's and my army are completly destroyed. I play with the Army arrives in province popup and the Engaged in battle popup turned on, I got neither message. The Austrian player says when Russia disintergrated he was in the shock phase and got an uber die roll. However my army had superior numbers in cavalry an equal leader and very good morale in comparison.

What I think happened is that I arrived at the battle at the very instant Russias army disintergrated causing my troops to do the same. As I said I was having no lag issues and had a lot of cav and a good leader. I have seen my armies disintergrate before but I have always seen the battle even if only for a brief shock phase. This cant be anything other then a bug imho.

Its especially hard to swallow when its your only army, your country is at breaking point and then to have your group pretty much label you a liar and let your enenmy occupy your whole country.
 
Does anyone else think that what happened was odd and should've been dclared a major bug and the game went to a rehost/edit?
 
well, i didn`t make good checking in this area, and it seems like leaders fire and shock are added to numbers in the windows like "7 vs 2+2" in the day when the leader arrives to the battlefield. But that changes number of losses, but not the ratio of die roll between two sides. Your leader starts influencing on the die roll only at the next stage (should be fire in your case).

Anyway you gave too less information. What are techs and number of infantry and cavalry of all three countries in those battle ?
 
Tonioz said:
well, i didn`t make good checking in this area, and it seems like leaders fire and shock are added to roll in the day when he arrives. But that changes number of losses, but not the ratio of die roll between two sides. Your leader starts influencing on the die roll only at the next stage (should be fire in your case).

Anyway you gave too less information. What are techs and number of infantry and cavalry of all three countries in those battle ?
Click to expand...

Hmm Austria Land 18, Russia Land 17, BB Land 17.

BB 35 Inf 30 Cav
Russia Not sure couldn't have been more then 10inf 5 cav
Austria 40 inf 20 Cav I think
 
If it makes a difference Russia and BB were not in alliance.
 
alliance doesn`t influence. Any idea about maneuvre value of austrian leader ?

Well, Austria was CRT ahead both of you, and you probably joined when Russia had low morale and was going to be annihilated. Well, there is no much information regarding this, but i saw the belief, that for annihilation difference between current morale and difference between maneuvre are taken to influence greatly the chance of annihilation.

Anyway, on the higher tech you can easily see that dominative firepower of cannons influence the chance of annihilation greatly as well. Cavalry shock is near same thing, but not so impressive as high level cannons.
 
The manuever value was no higher then my leader i reckon.

I think this is a big case of very bad timing, arriving at the very instant that Russia's troops get annihalated must be it.
 
doesn't sound like a bug- just like arriving at the wrong moment (joining a losing battle where your army didn't get a chance to really influence things)

In real world terms, just as the Russian lines crumble and the troops start to flee, your troops arrive in marching columns, losing cohesion due to the fleeing Russian troops, your troops are easily crushed by an Austrian cavalry charge.
 
anyway quite strange for me to take "wrong moment" as the explanation for losing 30K cav vs 20K cav. Though such cases are so rare to make any good judjement.
 
ForzaA said:
In real world terms, just as the Russian lines crumble and the troops start to flee, your troops arrive in marching columns, losing cohesion due to the fleeing Russian troops, your troops are easily crushed by an Austrian cavalry charge.
Click to expand...

Just that she had 30k cavalry vs 20, so presumably the BB cavalry either was there to protect the infantry, in which case those could not be "easily chrushed" or they were not, in which case they would not be annihilated, only the infantry would.

I agree with BB that this was some kind of bug in the game. If you arrive with a cavarly superior army like this I can hardly believe it would be possible for you to get annihilated within a second. You might lose your moral quite fast, as might happen if your army's moral is mixed together with that of your ally. But then this only decreases the risk that you are annihilated since you will lose the battle because of moral loss before many get killed. BTW, why should your moral get mixed with a non-ally? BrB and RUS were not allies. But perhaps the game engine does not make such a distinction.

As for you being called "pretty much a liar", its bad, really bad. Were you really called that? Are your fellowgamers mentally sane individuals?

------

Tonioz, was it not possible to make "trials" with some Russian battle simulator? Could one simulate a very bad dice roll for you and also feed the program with the actual stats about moral, LT, size of army, army components etc, and then see if it is at all possible to get this result? Well, perhaps also taking into consideration the dice roll of the previous battle between RUS and AUS. Coming to think about it, you mentioned that BrB somehow inherited Russia's dice roll. And that may well be the core of the problem. Assume that this dice roll was made when RUS had say 5000k left and AUS 30k and a great cavalry advantage for AUS - a total annihilation situation presuming a good dice roll. After it has been put into effect the BrB army wanders into the battle and instead of getting a dice roll of their own and a combat resolution table of their own etc inherits all of Russia's and thus get annihilated themselves. Well, then to me it is a clearcut bug. The game engine did not take the BrB army into consideration when calculating the outcome of the battle. But it was present on the battlefield.
 
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daniel has explained it very well, thats why i think it is a bug in the game.
 
Are you sure you didn't have any lag at all? Because if you had a short lag spike of say few days and bad luck with the dice, austrians might have been lucky enough to kill you away during the spike. Especially since you arrived after russians and austrians had cavalry superiority over russians, which is not afaik recalculated when you send more troops into an ongoing battle.
 
Daniel A said:
Just that she had 30k cavalry vs 20, so presumably the BB cavalry either was there to protect the infantry, in which case those could not be "easily chrushed" or they were not, in which case they would not be annihilated, only the infantry would.

I agree with BB that this was some kind of bug in the game. If you arrive with a cavarly superior army like this I can hardly believe it would be possible for you to get annihilated within a second. You might lose your moral quite fast, as might happen if your army's moral is mixed together with that of your ally. But then this only decreases the risk that you are annihilated since you will lose the battle because of moral loss before many get killed. BTW, why should your moral get mixed with a non-ally? BrB and RUS were not allies. But perhaps the game engine does not make such a distinction.

As for you being called "pretty much a liar", its bad, really bad. Were you really called that? Are your fellowgamers mentally sane individuals?

------

Tonioz, was it not possible to make "trials" with some Russian battle simulator? Could one simulate a very bad dice roll for you and also feed the program with the actual stats about moral, LT, size of army, army components etc, and then see if it is at all possible to get this result? Well, perhaps also taking into consideration the dice roll of the previous battle between RUS and AUS. Coming to think about it, you mentioned that BrB somehow inherited Russia's dice roll. And that may well be the core of the problem. Assume that this dice roll was made when RUS had say 5000k left and AUS 30k and a great cavalry advantage for AUS - a total annihilation situation presuming a good dice roll. After it has been put into effect the BrB army wanders into the battle and instead of getting a dice roll of their own and a combat resolution table of their own etc inherits all of Russia's and thus get annihilated themselves. Well, then to me it is a clearcut bug. The game engine did not take the BrB army into consideration when calculating the outcome of the battle. But it was present on the battlefield.
Click to expand...

which is essentially what I was saying :s

if the Russians have very bad die roll against them, and there are 500 left when the Brandenburgers arive, the battle continues with this die roll, poor design choice, perhaps, but not a bug as such.

BTW: logs from Brandenburg, Russia, Austria could perhaps shed some light (most notably "we are attacked" "we won a battle" and such)
 
It's a bug, even the worse dice roll wouldn't eliminate so many armies with 40k inf and 20k cav.

I remember playing a Nappy with Dago and Zeit. we were trying how many years Prussia and Austria could resist, well, in a battle, my Blucher with 5k infantry and 150 cannons joined a battle of equal forces between Nappy and Karl, I took control of the battle and our forces defeated Nappy, killing half his army. Now, figure Karl's armies weren't taken on consideration...
 
All session I was practically without lag I highly doubt it wouldve spikes just at that instant since I had been through many larger battles before that. :)

Its a curious thing that the person furthest from the host has prolly the least lag, some of our American players were having lag lols. :rofl:
 
ForzaA said:
BTW: logs from Brandenburg, Russia, Austria could perhaps shed some light (most notably "we are attacked" "we won a battle" and such)
Click to expand...

I am positive that i didnt get those messages, only the army was annihalated.
 
ForzaA said:
which is essentially what I was saying :s

if the Russians have very bad die roll against them, and there are 500 left when the Brandenburgers arive, the battle continues with this die roll, poor design choice, perhaps, but not a bug as such.

BTW: logs from Brandenburg, Russia, Austria could perhaps shed some light (most notably "we are attacked" "we won a battle" and such)
Click to expand...

you're wrong considering the size and the components of armies. notice there're no cannons there and no kickass leaders.
 
ForzaA said:
which is essentially what I was saying :s

if the Russians have very bad die roll against them, and there are 500 left when the Brandenburgers arive, the battle continues with this die roll, poor design choice, perhaps, but not a bug as such.

BTW: logs from Brandenburg, Russia, Austria could perhaps shed some light (most notably "we are attacked" "we won a battle" and such)
Click to expand...

That your the first paragraph of your post meant exactly what I tried to say with so many words was interesting to hear. I congratulate you on your in-depth knowledge of the game engine. Apparently not one single player in her game knew about it. Neither did I. And nor did Tonioz if I interpret what he wrote correctly.

Anyway, good we know of it now. Sending in re-enforcements is apparently a dangerous thing to do. Even Buonaparte with a 500k/100k/300k army might be killed in 1 second by a 1000/0/0 army if I understand it correctly.

That you do not consider that a bug is fascinating :confused:

And do not for a second believe that all features and game mechanics are chosen by the designer of a system/program. :) These men are not all-knowing Gods although we sometime consider Johan to be one.

But now Forzaa, please respond to my question on ICQ instead of making posts in this thread :)
 
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