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Bad discipline in the EU MP community

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Although I have only played MP since Christmas I am astounded by the seemingly absurd lack of discipline in the EU community.

IIRC not one of the sessions I have participated in (perhaps 8-9) have been started within time or even within time + 5 minutes.

And I believe that in almost every single session I have participated there has been a last minute rush for subs because players do not show up on time.

Apparently either,

a) a number of players are morally sloppy and do not pay that much attention to the well-being of his fellow players

or

b) a culture of acceptance towards latecomers have been established.

Either way that behaviour IMO should be exterminated. I want my time to be quality time, not time wasted waiting for others. If they are unemphatic, then let them bear the burden of that, by giving them a penalty that also is beneficiary for us who show up on time.

In Europe Ruined we have instituted inflation penalties for them being late or entirely missing a session. Already last Friday it worked fine with only one exception: One player had announced he could'nt play and had arranged with a sub. However, this sub did not turn up on time. Probably he did not know about the rule.

Long live education by the whip!
 
I agree with Daniel (for once :D ), some people need to adjust their attitude.

Yes, this is only a computer game - and there are more important things in life than that. But it's still a computer game where 8+ other players participate. Players who are real people, not AI. Players who shouldn't waste time because someone lacks discipline and decency.
 
Rythin said:
Nah, in some cases games start in the time (and sometimes there is 90 minutes delay :D ). You can get used to it.
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You miss the point. As you could see from my previos post I am used to it. However, that does not mean I approve of it or like it. Or perhaps we misunderstand eachother. :)
 
No, that 'you' in the second sentence didn't refered to Mister Daniel A from Stockholm but rather to everyone who is mad about some people's ignorance. Yeah, I hate waiting and wasting my time too, but you can't change some people and if they were born as lazy smartasses, I bet they will die as lazy smartasses :)
 
Some players need to adjust their attitude.

This is only a game in which you participate to have fun, however it's a social issue also. Coming too late regulary is an offense towards other players.

Think about it. If you are 10 minutes too late in a group of 12 players, that means eleven players wait 10 minutes. 110 minutes through the drain! :D

In a social group those who behave asocial should be removed. Quite frankly, players who repeatedly come to late and repeatedly fail to inform the GM if they miss a session should not be welcome anymore in a multiplayer campaign. They are too much of an annoyance.

Punishing them doesn't work imo. They just won't show up anymore if their nation gets too much inflation or something. Just learn to know those players and exclude them from your own games.

However, some GM's have a soft spot and regulary keep allowing those players to sign up for their games :D

That said, I have noticed an improvement in starting on time the last months :)
 
FAL said:
Punishing them doesn't work imo. They just won't show up anymore if their nation gets too much inflation or something. Just learn to know those players and exclude them from your own games.
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I agree, punishing won't have the effect sought for.
 
In Europe Ruined we have instituted inflation penalties for them being late or entirely missing a session.
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That was in DbD2. It worked very good, always on time and never later than 5 minutes start (sadly, by the latter part of the campaign, the rule was slackened, so it turned into a normal one).
I really agree, i hate waiting, especially if im a sub and am there earlier than the perms...
 
Mulliman said:
That was in DbD2. It worked very good, always on time and never later than 5 minutes start (sadly, by the latter part of the campaign, the rule was slackened, so it turned into a normal one).
I really agree, i hate waiting, especially if im a sub and am there earlier than the perms...
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Thus proving the rule worked. :)

And in case there are a few who are impossible to change, well then just kick them and publish their names on the forum so that other innocent players are warned.
 
Daniel is a genius. I support all his propositions unconditionally. His vast experience in game management is a pillar of stability in this otherwise turbulent MP community. I am thankful that he is here to inform us all of the proper course of action. THREE CHEERS TO DANIEL!
 
ryoken69 said:
Daniel is a genius. I support all his propositions unconditionally. His vast experience in game management is a pillar of stability in this otherwise turbulent MP community. I am thankful that he is here to inform us all of the proper course of action. THREE CHEERS TO DANIEL!
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Thank you Ryoken. Yes I have some experience. When you grew older you will probably as well learn that you can make a good deal of the population change their habits merely by making them feel the pain when they do the wrong thing. As a matter of fact, much legislation (penal as well as civil) in any nation uses this method, something you will easy recognise if you take half a minute and think instead of go for the usual Daniel-bashing :p

PS In case it took a whole minute for you, then do not feel too disappointed. The reason may be that you are too emotionally involved and have trouble making your brain master of your emotions. A frequent occurence in debates here at the MP forum. ;)
 
ryoken69 said:
Daniel is a genius. I support all his propositions unconditionally. His vast experience in game management is a pillar of stability in this otherwise turbulent MP community. I am thankful that he is here to inform us all of the proper course of action. THREE CHEERS TO DANIEL!
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I think this was pretty much uncalled for. You don't have to have played EU2 MP for 2-3 years in order to spot this problem, and I see no justification for you putting him down because he's trying to put focus on it.
 
ryoken69 said:
Daniel is a genius. I support all his propositions unconditionally. His vast experience in game management is a pillar of stability in this otherwise turbulent MP community. I am thankful that he is here to inform us all of the proper course of action. THREE CHEERS TO DANIEL!
Click to expand...

You do know that your access here is dependant on you behaving nicely, right?
It isn't a birthgiven right you know.

I would advice you to actually start changing your way of posting before you end up losing your posting access permanently.
 
No one cares to play the devil's advocate?

Well, I think it's only natural that people will miss sessions or be late from time to time. Daniel said himself that this was something he saw in every game he played in. It's just like ctd's, a thing that we can't get around and have to put up with. The logistical difficulty of making sure everybody shows up on time will never be surmounted, and you can't fall the blame on a few people because everybody does it from time to time.

Penalizing people for being late may help, but it's not going to solve everything. Kicking out people that do this stuff sounds like a great idea, but then who are you going to replace them with? New players aren't exactly forthcoming all the time, and you ussually have to make do with what you have. A lot of the people who do this from time to time bring a lot of good things to a game anyway, like HG for example ;). And even if you banished half the people in your game, chances are the other half will still keep you waiting once in a while. You just have to be tolerant of it, as most Eu2 players are. Get a replacement if you can, and feel free to see if inflation penalties work, but being pushy about it certainly has its limits after which you must just Keep a cool head and try not to get discouraged.
 
Daniel A said:
In Europe Ruined we have instituted inflation penalties for them being late or entirely missing a session. Already last Friday it worked fine with only one exception: One player had announced he could'nt play and had arranged with a sub. However, this sub did not turn up on time. Probably he did not know about the rule.
Click to expand...

I like this one and I think this could be added as a permanent rule by GM's like a No-Trade map rule before 1650 per exemple. Motivate late comers by raising their inflation could be a pain (and a great idea) and it's also a pain to wait 15-30 minutes before starting the session because some of us don't care enought about others players respect.. and patience.
 
Hive and Daniel,

I didnt attack Daniel. I supported his views completely. Jeez, a man cannot even agree with others without being harassed. If I had disagreed with him, people would have called me evil all the same. It is a lose-lose situation for me. If I agree with the guy, I get smacked. If I disagree with the guy, I get smacked.

And I did actually post that as a test of this effect. I knew that you guys would incorrectly interpret the text and so I wanted to prove that it is a matter of interpretation. My statement could be interpreted sarcastically or honestly since I didnt say "MP game management". I just said "game management", so it could mean any games, even tabletop RPGs or RISK.

See, you are assuming that because I am Ryoken, I am trying to attack you. So your mind fills in extra information that turns my statement negative. I said "thank god he is here to tell us what to do". You assume that this is the continuation of that previous argument where I was critical of Daniel. So you think I am insulting him.

The problem is your over-interpretation of what I say to be extremely negative. Most of the time, I dont mean anything aggressive at all in my posts, it is YOUR interpretation of it to be offensive that is the problem. However, from now on I just wont even talk to you guys anymore on this since YOU cannot behave apparently.

I cannot say anything without everyone jumping all over me. So I will just go back to working on my mod and leave you guys to your enclosed world where I am evil and you are good.
 
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had an awful session recently. we had a lateness start, some connection/router problems, a few CTD's and several rehosts.

during one "quick" rehost, one "problem" player did not pick his country. he was afk. so we waited. wtf? i found out he yammering on the phone with his girlfriend. so i called game on and booted him.

he icqed me when we were in session and i asked him
"so are you ready to play today?"
he replied affirmative.
"ok we wil rehost for you at 1250 pm then. we are going to play for a half hour"
"okies"

so, when we rehosted, the player was waiting for us in vnet. no problems since. he's a good and fun player btw.

i think it just takes a mix of love and discipline. a tricky balance.
 
FranK XIV said:
I like this one and I think this could be added as a permanent rule by GM's like a No-Trade map rule before 1650 per exemple. Motivate late comers by raising their inflation could be a pain (and a great idea) and it's also a pain to wait 15-30 minutes before starting the session because some of us don't care enought about others players respect.. and patience.
Click to expand...

Or, alternatively, lower the inflation of the people who DO show up on time, and leave the latecomers inflation untouched--same effect and appears less punitive. Doesn't work when some on-time players have no inflation.
 
show must go on.
 
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