My post apparently is not filter-Firendly here so I posted it on Reddit.
I hope to get some feedback here.
I hope to get some feedback here.
- 9
- 4
- 2
- 1
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
- Status
That reddit link doesn't work for me, I suspect your post there got removed.
IMO this is an inappropriate place to discuss such matters. If you are trying to report inappropriate posts here please hit the Report button on them. If in another platform, it will have its own complaint system. You can also lodge a ticket at paradox.zendesk.com if you can't find a more appropriate means.
IMO this is an inappropriate place to discuss such matters. If you are trying to report inappropriate posts here please hit the Report button on them. If in another platform, it will have its own complaint system. You can also lodge a ticket at paradox.zendesk.com if you can't find a more appropriate means.
- 1
Well my post was about how pervasive bigotry was in Paradox spaces, especially the multiplayer. I have been harassed, called slurs and know numerous other people who have had the same experience.
I suppose this company has no interest in it being mentioned so I feel maybe I should simply stop being a customer.
I don’t know what else to do, I love these games but there is a problem of how paradox players act. How can I even lobby a grievance?
I suppose this company has no interest in it being mentioned so I feel maybe I should simply stop being a customer.
I don’t know what else to do, I love these games but there is a problem of how paradox players act. How can I even lobby a grievance?
- 8
- 3
- 1
It is not a matter of a lack of interest, but finding the appropriate channel to help you in - in public is not one as we can't discuss identities or reproduce the offending material here. We do have to deal with this stuff all the time, unfortunately.
If this in MP chat, as I understand it there is not a lot can be done really, as we have no visibility of that. Obviously you'd not play with those people again.
Any other place this happens such as here, on our Discord or Twitter feeds, Steam discussion groups , etc, has its own reporting mechanism - have you used those?
If this in MP chat, as I understand it there is not a lot can be done really, as we have no visibility of that. Obviously you'd not play with those people again.
Any other place this happens such as here, on our Discord or Twitter feeds, Steam discussion groups , etc, has its own reporting mechanism - have you used those?
- 4
- Mar 4, 2019
- 1.004
- 2.140
As Andrew mentioned, this is not the appropriate channel for this discussion, but your post has been noted. While we cannot control who plays our games, we do have forum guidelines against toxicity, which includes Nazism and transphobia, so please feel free to report any such posts and the mod team will deal with them.
- 1
Hello Biggus Bossus,
I am Laureline, the manager of the community team at Paradox.
First, let me thank you for your message and your candor, it is highly appreciated.
I am really sorry you had such a poor experience in our games and had to face harassment from some players.
What you experienced is absolutely unacceptable and the behaviours you describe are irrevocably against our Terms of Use, our community code of conduct, and the values of mutual respect and tolerance we expect from our communities. As AndrewT and Debbie mentioned above, we encourage you to report any wrong behaviour to our support team or to the moderation team if it happens on our community channels since we cannot discuss specific cases publicly.
I know however that it is not always possible to make a report, especially when something happens in a multiplayer session. And in this case, I fully agree with you, it comes down to the behaviours that we want to be part of our communities. Paradox has always been very transparent that everyone is welcome to play our games and take part in our communities. The good side is that we have a very diverse bunch of players and fans that love our games. But without clear guidelines on how to interact and engage around our games with mutual respect, this can unfortunately lead to very toxic behaviors, as you explained very well.
This is a question we take very seriously in the community team and we are working everyday, with the help of our moderators, to ensure that our communities are safe and welcoming spaces for all players. It is an ongoing effort, and I think we’ve seen some very encouraging results in some of our channels and communities, but we are not quite there yet.
We are actively working on improving our guidelines and practices to ensure that all our players feel they can safely engage with each other and with us on all our official community platforms.
I can understand your frustration and that it feels it is taking too long to improve. My take is that this kind of change is always slower than we’d hope, but I am very happy to see all the great things the community team has done to make some of our channels safe and constructive. The forums are admittedly falling a bit behind, but they are now our priority and we will have some updates to share with the community very soon.
In an effort to foster change, we'll reopen this thread. We'd love to hear your thoughts on how we could make things better and safer for everyone with our community. And let's show that we can have constructive and respectful conversations! This thread will be monitored closely and closed at any sign of toxicity.
Best,
Laureline
I am Laureline, the manager of the community team at Paradox.
First, let me thank you for your message and your candor, it is highly appreciated.
I am really sorry you had such a poor experience in our games and had to face harassment from some players.
What you experienced is absolutely unacceptable and the behaviours you describe are irrevocably against our Terms of Use, our community code of conduct, and the values of mutual respect and tolerance we expect from our communities. As AndrewT and Debbie mentioned above, we encourage you to report any wrong behaviour to our support team or to the moderation team if it happens on our community channels since we cannot discuss specific cases publicly.
I know however that it is not always possible to make a report, especially when something happens in a multiplayer session. And in this case, I fully agree with you, it comes down to the behaviours that we want to be part of our communities. Paradox has always been very transparent that everyone is welcome to play our games and take part in our communities. The good side is that we have a very diverse bunch of players and fans that love our games. But without clear guidelines on how to interact and engage around our games with mutual respect, this can unfortunately lead to very toxic behaviors, as you explained very well.
This is a question we take very seriously in the community team and we are working everyday, with the help of our moderators, to ensure that our communities are safe and welcoming spaces for all players. It is an ongoing effort, and I think we’ve seen some very encouraging results in some of our channels and communities, but we are not quite there yet.
We are actively working on improving our guidelines and practices to ensure that all our players feel they can safely engage with each other and with us on all our official community platforms.
I can understand your frustration and that it feels it is taking too long to improve. My take is that this kind of change is always slower than we’d hope, but I am very happy to see all the great things the community team has done to make some of our channels safe and constructive. The forums are admittedly falling a bit behind, but they are now our priority and we will have some updates to share with the community very soon.
In an effort to foster change, we'll reopen this thread. We'd love to hear your thoughts on how we could make things better and safer for everyone with our community. And let's show that we can have constructive and respectful conversations! This thread will be monitored closely and closed at any sign of toxicity.
Best,
Laureline
Last edited:
- 6
I would love to, but your filters have made my response impossible to post.
I appreciate the response but it feels more and more like nobody wants to hear it.
I appreciate the response but it feels more and more like nobody wants to hear it.
- 2
- 1
Our communities (plural, because there are many, with different virtues and problems) are diverse. Of course we will get some [redacted ] people, just avoid them.
People tend to be edgy on the internet, or to show their true colors hiding behind a nickname or a fake profile. All gaming communities have their problems, but HOI4 is by has the most toxic communities across all PDS games because it covers ww2, a topic that covers one of the most extreme historical periods of human history. Also is a historical period very popular in mainstream media, so attracts the average bigot.
And multiplayer is full of trolls, even in the most sane discords there are one or more of those people. Thats why i only play with friends i made across the years.
People tend to be edgy on the internet, or to show their true colors hiding behind a nickname or a fake profile. All gaming communities have their problems, but HOI4 is by has the most toxic communities across all PDS games because it covers ww2, a topic that covers one of the most extreme historical periods of human history. Also is a historical period very popular in mainstream media, so attracts the average bigot.
And multiplayer is full of trolls, even in the most sane discords there are one or more of those people. Thats why i only play with friends i made across the years.
The forum anti spam function prevents users with low post counts from posting links. This is not at all directed at you, that is a universal restriction. Anything else is okay, no links.
HOWEVER as mentioned above, depending on the channel you are intending to reference, this may or may not be the best place to discuss it at all.
Im not sure how I missed a youtuber getting harassed I watch alot of those people and haven't heard anything
Unfortunately this is the state of online gaming in general. Its why a lot of us only play online games with friends and why we tend to mute general chat channels. I cant say I have noticed that the paradox fans are any worse than other gamers, but then again I mainly play these games in singleplayer mode. No gaming company is going to be able to change this culture, if its going to change it has to come from the gamers themselves. I doubt that will happen in my lifetime.
- 4
Agreed that the multiplayer communities can be quite toxic your best bet is probaly to find or create a multiplayer group on steam/discord that can actually curate their members and then play with those people instead of troll filled random public matches
I'm sure I'll get clapped for this, but this is the most "we're never going to do anything but tweaks around the edges" post I've ever read. As a trans person, I know this line of talk. This is the talk to get us to shut up and stop making a stink about it. It doesn't matter to any of you that the community will endlessly harass and bully trans people out of playing multiplayer because it will never affect Paradox negatively until bad press starts. Even right here you have people reacting with the laughing emote to posts that are talking about discrimination within the community. Why are those not instantly removed???? I've spent hundreds of dollars and thousands upon thousands of hours on your games and I have never once felt safe in a public multiplayer community. It's been like this forever. Filled to the brim with reactionaries who are just chomping at the bit to do a little hate speech and harass people as soon as they have the opportunity. Part of it is because there's a lot of edgy teenagers (I should know, I was one of them playing EU4 8 years ago being just as toxic as the people I'm talking about), but the biggest part of it is just complete inaction and no real attempt to stop it.
Just last night I was waiting for a HoI 4 lobby to open with my friends and what do I see? N-word f-slur as a lobby title (I have a screenshot if you don't believe me). This is emblematic of the lack of any action. A slur filter isn't hard to do. It's just that it doesn't really matter to Paradox. I know this comes across as accusatory towards you personally, and I'm sure you deal with a lot of crap and I apologize that this is the case, but my frustration is with this company. It's not hard to find these people. They're everywhere, and spending just a few minutes looking for a multiplayer game you're going to find these people. I'm not sure how it takes 6 years to realize "hey, maybe we shouldn't let people write horrific things in multiplayer lobby titles." Fundamentally, Paradox does not care about the trans community that plays their games and nothing will be done until the company feels pressure from press or social media or somewhere else. The warning signs, the problems, and everything else have been here since the beginning and little action has ever been taken.
- 8
- 7
- 5
- 2
- 1
In my personal experience, Paradox tends to do a good job of combatting this sort of toxic behavior, at least here on the forums. I know that the Steam forums, however, are an absolute cesspit of prejudice and toxicity, which is why I generally try to avoid them as much as I can. I also probably have a different experience because I am a straight, cisgender white male; quite frankly, people like me tend to be the bully more often than the victim in these situations.
My opinion is that this issue is a complex one, and solving it would require action from multiple different actors. Forum operators, be they official or fansites, need to step-up moderation, and entities that operate multiplayer servers need to make it clear that there will be serious consequences for this sort of behavior and actually impose them. We the players also need to be more proactive with calling-out and reporting toxic conduct; it too often gets a pass because "free speech", "it's just a joke", etc.
The only thing I know for certain is that absolutely no one should have to go through this, especially in a place that many of us use to escape from jerks in real life.
My opinion is that this issue is a complex one, and solving it would require action from multiple different actors. Forum operators, be they official or fansites, need to step-up moderation, and entities that operate multiplayer servers need to make it clear that there will be serious consequences for this sort of behavior and actually impose them. We the players also need to be more proactive with calling-out and reporting toxic conduct; it too often gets a pass because "free speech", "it's just a joke", etc.
The only thing I know for certain is that absolutely no one should have to go through this, especially in a place that many of us use to escape from jerks in real life.
- 1
Being a member of this forum for 18 years now, my experience is that this is one of the friendliest communities on the internet.
I often wonder in other forums why people can't behave like here.
After all it's only natural that people with a mutual interest (like niche grand strategy games) would be nice and helpful towards each other.
Cannot say anything about public MP games. Only talking about this board. Manners might have deteriorated slightly since PDS entered the mainstream and the community became more anonymous. That's the same everywhere, look at the Tesla community for instance.
That said, I doubt that many forum members care one bit about your race, gender, creed or political affiliation. This is s friendly place and we shouldn't pretend otherwise.
I often wonder in other forums why people can't behave like here.
After all it's only natural that people with a mutual interest (like niche grand strategy games) would be nice and helpful towards each other.
Cannot say anything about public MP games. Only talking about this board. Manners might have deteriorated slightly since PDS entered the mainstream and the community became more anonymous. That's the same everywhere, look at the Tesla community for instance.
That said, I doubt that many forum members care one bit about your race, gender, creed or political affiliation. This is s friendly place and we shouldn't pretend otherwise.
- 3
Genuine remarks, please don't assume ill intentions:
1. How do the people know you're trans in the first place? It's impossible to tell from a text chat unless you mention it yourself. If you use voice chat, I imagine it's possible.
2. If you mention being transgender yourself, don't you think it may be partially the reason why people "bully you out of playing" with them? People play to have fun, and discussion about sexual orientation is controversial and can be just something they don't want to engage in.
3. You can meet toxic people everywhere, especially in a game often played by edgy teenagers. Don't give them attention and they'll eventually get bored.
4. Removing laughing emotes is next-level censorship. It won't magically make everyone agree with you. It makes people radicalize more. Silencing all criticism is not the way to increase tolerance.
Last edited:
- 15
- 2
- 1
Paradox is already a heavily left-wing company. What else do you want the company to do? To be even more left-wing than they already are?
I think is sad that the company has to always side with the left wing and excludes any right wing opinion.
Toxicity should be persecuted in general from both sides, not only when it comes from one side.
With this being said: you have my support against people insulting you.
I think is sad that the company has to always side with the left wing and excludes any right wing opinion.
Toxicity should be persecuted in general from both sides, not only when it comes from one side.
With this being said: you have my support against people insulting you.
- 11
- 5
- 3
You aren't, I can see your reaction. You're here to debate lord in bad faith.
Pronouns, voice, bio, looking up who you are. There's lots of ways. I go by they/them so it's always extremely obvious to everyone and they want to make a big deal out of it. They want to debate my existence or just be hateful from the get go. I can't hide it very well. Some trans people whose voice passes may fly under the radar (lmao no they wont the community is extremely misogynistic and transmascs wont touch the games with a 10 foot pole).
My very existence is controversial so I should just stop existing as a trans person. Wow how insightful and brilliant. I didn't think of it, thanks. Maybe if people questioned the validity of your existence everywhere you went you might have a different perspective. Sexual orientation is who you prefer to have sex with. Gender identity is completely distinct. Maybe consider not talking about things you clearly haven't the first idea about.
Really, you should be given award for how high functioning you are with this amount of brain rot. It's impressive, really.
You come here in bad faith and cry about censorship when I say it's inappropriate to be allowing laughing emotes on a serious subject. Notice how I didn't say anything about the disagree reaction. Hmmmmmmmmm. HMMMMMMMMMM.Attachments
- 6
- 2
- 2
- Status