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Tisifoni12

Field Marshal
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Oct 29, 2012
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Okay so when did the five sided city thing come in replacing the ordinary round combat marker ?

Yes, I get it, murderous and slow street fighting in Stalingrad, in Berlin, but it's May 1940 and it's the Netherlands and Belgium . . .
 
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There were urban combat modifiers added in one of the last DLC's.

I usually declare war on Netherlands first, capitulation it, then do Belgium and lux. Works well.
 
It's 'expletive deleted' ridiculous to have 'urban combat' modifiers apply early in the war, when armies haven't developed the experience to be trained for that . . .
 
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Honestly I never noticed there being much difference in a city combat compared to previous patches. Just some different tactics and UI pictures.

The city warfare update was rushed and largely failed to achieve its intended goal.
Taking a city is just as easy as it always was.
 
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Well I am doing pretty much what I used to do in earlier versions of HOI4, then with success, now bogging down.

My armoured / mobile forces hit the cities and make no headway, so I leave them to the infantry and push on. My armoured and motorized divisions and some infantry reach the Belgian / French frontier, but their organisation is low and not recovering and their supply situation poor. The attack on Belgium and the Netherlands began on 1 May 1940 and it's now mid August . . .

Behind them something like 12 divisions are surrounded in 'fortress Brussels' (supplied from where exactly ?) and my successive attacks drag and dwindle.

I check the air situation and I have 3 to 1 in fighters, and the enemy fighters shown in the display are not Spitfires, but I don't appear to have have air superiority . . .

My comments made after three attempts, with me trying slightly different ways to 'micro' with the armoured and motorized divisions.

Okay respectfully disagree with me, but I see no explanation as to why you respectfully disagree with me.
 
Having divisions fully sourounded, should get them the big encircled penalty. So just keep attacking ?

If it bothers you, you can always do the dreaded thing of having a few infantry divisions with line artillery. Fast soft attack. Not that penalized on city attacks.


Or you can invade first the Netherlands, and only then Belgium ?

Or rush for the VP with the divisions, maybe with more cavalry or motorised support / line holders ?
 
Tank and mobile divisions are not the best for city fighting. Good for encircling the cities though.
 
Or you can invade first the Netherlands, and only then Belgium ?

Or rush for the VP with the divisions, maybe with more cavalry or motorised support / line holders ?
Last attempt I did try the Netherlands first, when that bogged down, I turned South leaving one infantry army to finish the job. By mid July the Hague and the coastal Netherland south of the Zuider Zee were still in Allied control.

Yes I try to rush my armour and motorized for the VP cities, but end up stuck on the border for days the green circle climbing only slowly from 84 to 100.
And the above divisions get to those cities and again have an initial high 'green' value, which quickly falls, so I pull them off and leave it to the infantry *see below)

Sounds like you either have poorly designed divisions or red air.
Red air, 3 to 1 superiority in fighter aircraft and all 'modern', the enemy including some interwar by the look of it.

I'd like 'historical divisions', but the division designer isn't built for that; a company of artillery is not 2/3 of a battalion . . .

Tank and mobile divisions are not the best for city fighting. Good for encircling the cities though.
Which is why I pull them off and send them forward, but without taking the supply choke points (Brussels, Amsterdam), the armour and motorized are starved of supply and can't make progress. Half the infantry are with them and half busy sieging Brussels and Amsterdam and I watch the attacks by the later half drop from green 84 to green 63, to green 26 to red 12 to red 4 and peter out.
 
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Do you have any screenshots?
As I am now super confused as to how the might of Germany gets bugged down while fighting coastal Netherlands "only" (some random french and UK reinforcement could happen but still).
 
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As requested:

1 July 1940.jpg


Division organisation is generally low, units under-supplied, air red (despite varying from 3 - 1 to 3- 2 superiority in numbers). Brussels and Amsterdam are somehow fortresses despite no armies at this stage in the war having much experience in urban fighting and in fortifying urban environments. Started of stuck on the Netherlands border for like 10 - 12 days.

There are 3 x 12 division infantry armies there, plus an additional 8 division infantry army in Luxembourg. Two panzer armies each of 3 Pz divisions and 3 motorized.
Guderian is in command of the 'dunkelgelb' panzer army and Von Manstein is in command of the grey panzer army (at this point trying to recover organisation rather than fighting).

Campaign began 1 May 1940, this is the situation on 1 July 1940.

And I am doing what used to work, before the Devs turned the cities into 'expletive deleted' fortresses . . .
It's 1940 not the the 30 years war . . .

Historically the Dutch were expecting neutrality to protect them (like WW1) and were not well prepared.
Not sure about the Belgians, more prepared, but defences like the fort at Eben Emael were overrun somewhat more quickly than anticipated.
The French had a WW1 vintage central command and by the time they had been updated on the situation and had issued new orders the situation had 'moved on'.

No way do I want the game to just be a re-run of history as it happened, but the mechanics of the game should at least allow for that as a possibility.
 
When you click on the battle icon what does it display. Wondering what the attack and defense numbers/modifiers are.
 
@Findell_HOI

This is Germany in 1940. Historically that's six companies
I haven't even researched Marines; not a priority

The Marine-Stoßtrupp-Kompanie was formed in March 1938.[6] It initially consisted of two infantry platoons, one engineer platoon and one weapons platoon with a total strength about 250 men. On 1 September 1939, it took part in the Battle of Westerplatte.

In 1940, the unit was expanded to six companies as Marine-Stoßtrupp-Abteilung. The formation participated in the occupation of Normandy and the Channel Islands.

In 1945, a number of Navy sailors were sent to fight in the Battle of Berlin by order of Grand Admiral Dönitz, while thousands were organized into infantry formations. Those included the 1st Naval Infantry Division and others.

As for the rivers my plan was to punch through the Dutch armies North of the Nederijn and go for Amsterdam, also between the Waal and the Nederijn and go for Rotterdam. Once through the Dutch blocking forces some divisions would head on for those objectives and others would head South; Arnhem, Nijmegen and on to Brussels and Northern France.

Hung up on the border for like 10 - 12 days. Apparently although my advance is parallel to the rivers my attacks are treated as being across rivers and the defenders get bonuses for defending bridges. Perhaps the rivers slow things down, but that is not the only factor. Historically the Germans went through the Ardennes. A surprise move that isn't possible / practical in HOI4, similar to the way that Pearl Harbour never happens. Then the cities are treated now as fortresses, which didn't used to be the case, despite the fact that in 1940 those cities were not fortresses and it was only as the war progressed that ways were developed to fortify cities.

So what used to work no longer works.

And what the heck, I would probably only play to the Fall of France anyway as it's baked in that Mussolini will declare war on Switzerland asap, for no other reason than that the AI can.
 
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Why are you fighting the Netherlands, Belgium and France all together?
I see Belgian troops in the Netherlands?? How ?

Just fight one after the other (or France of courses but attack Belgium only after capitulating the Netherlands).

You provided really minimal information (one screenshot).


If you are expecting to do exactly what was done in history... That never worked.

More game mechanics: you are fighting everywhere at once ! Why are you insisting on reaching France before capitulating the other two countries?

If you want to attack everything at once, you can. But then you must use "Sturtruppendivisionen" or. Infantry with line artillery. I don't know if you have pure meta infantry or not. Or even more tanks etc of course. But the latter is more for concentrated attacks anyway
 
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@Life is Comedy

In 1940 the Germans attacked the Netherlands on 10th May and were in Rotterdam on 13th May. I attack the Netherlands, only the Netherlands, and I'm still on the 'expletive deleted' after around 10 days watching the green circle tick up to 100. I'm on the Belgian border around Zandhoven, Gobbendonk, Herentals, confident I can punch South with my mobile forces. The Germans didn't talk of 'Blitzkrieg' but of war of manoeuvre, it's about holding onto the initiative.

My forces that would have quite quickly taken Amsterdam and Rotterdam stall. I punch into Belgium. Again I stall on reaching Brussels and other Belgian cities; it's a compact theatre and not every city, but several of them act like fortresses. My infantry divisions fail (against their 18th Century Vauban fortifications ?) while my mobile forces cannot be supplied.

I am at war with France anyway. What am I supposed to do take three or four 'expletive deleted' months to defeat the Netherlands before I fire a shot at Belgium. Historically the Germans began the attack on Belgium on the same day as they attacked the Netherlands and in the past that is what I have done and it has worked.

Belgium surrendered on 28th May. By which date the French had been defeated on the Meuse (no 'miracle' like WW1), the Battle of Arras had taken place on 21st May South of Lille in France and the evacuation of the British BEF and some French forces from Dunkirk was underway. Historically the Germans did fight all three, successfully.
 
I mean... Then yes. Your main complaint is that Paradox made finally a better overall AI that sadly makes the fast war in the low countries more difficult


Then do preparations that allow to do just that. In game. If you copy 1 to one the German side, tag switch to the Netherlands, Belgium Luxembourg and France, and cheat that their divisions also are historical.

Or start with the 1939 start date.


Otherwise, Have more game mechanics correct divisions ready to do what you need to do. Again, either focus more on tanks, or have heavy infantry with a lot of artillery to allow for fast soft attack against enemy infantry.
 
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There were urban combat modifiers added in one of the last DLC's.

I usually declare war on Netherlands first, capitulation it, then do Belgium and lux. Works well.
I 2nd that opinion. Why open a front to Belgium giving the Allies a direct reinforcement path to the Dutch territories? I stopped doing that after a few games because of the enormous amount of troops flooding north.

Rethink that strat and I bet it goes much better for you.

On future playthroughs you could possibly...
  • modify the infantry template so that it is more suitable to overrun the Allies default template(s)
  • Build more planes (not displayed but I'm betting you have red air as well)
For me, Benelux is rarely even a speed bump in taking western Europe as the Germans. I use...
  • 12x of the default Panzer Template (12 Width) assigned to a seperate order from the infantry armies (NOT!!! the same FM order as the infantry armies)
  • 1752097868850.png
  • 36x of my modified Infantry division template
  • 1752098009206.png
  • Green Air with 200 Modified Fighters and 200 Default CAS assigned to each Army
  • 1752098135896.png
  • 1 Full (24 divisions) Infantry
  • 1/2 (12 Divisions) Infantry (The other 12 divisions are assigned to 2x (6 each) additional Field Marshal orders. 1 on the border to Belgium the other on the border of Luxemburg
  • 12 Panzer Divisions to invade the southern portion of the border with Germany. All 3 groups of 4 shoot down the gaps between the rivers (1 has to cross a river the other 2 have a straight shot to victory points.

I micro the southern invasion and mostly ignore the northern divisions since they are not critical to taking the Victory Point cities. I avoid fighting across rivers.

If you are interested in seeing how I setup the orders go to 21:30 in the following video (on youtube) and I walk you through it. This video was before the latest Germany DLC but the strat is the same.



I hope that helps and GL
 
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