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C.O.R.E HOI - Italy

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You can't really think about the alignment pyramid chart as actual policy or government type. It's more of a which way are you leaning chart. A nation all the way to democracy might not be democratic at all (ref NatChi), but will be much more inclined towards the western powers. A nation all the way to fascist will be more inclined towards the axis powers, while a communist would favor the USSR. Even then this not a 100% guarantee, as which political bloc your government is in also plays a large role. Those on the right will still favor similar governments (PA, FA, NS), while centrists will favor each other (RS, CE, LC), and the leftists will favor each other (LWR, LE, ST). So, even though Italy was all the way at democracy, it just meant that they had a more pro-western attitude, but were still fascist.
 
I think this event is just a symbol of Italy still trying to decide which way to go. Mussolini, despite being excluded from the League, still tried to find some modo vivendi with the allies and wasn't sure about joining the axis.

Apart from that, JRaup is right. As germany, you can either influence a democratic-but-fascist Italy in just no time at all or even ask them to join alliance (and they might still agree, which IMO is a bug).
Cheers
 
Originally posted by Halibutt
I think this event is just a symbol of Italy still trying to decide which way to go. Mussolini, despite being excluded from the League, still tried to find some modo vivendi with the allies and wasn't sure about joining the axis.

Apart from that, JRaup is right. As germany, you can either influence a democratic-but-fascist Italy in just no time at all or even ask them to join alliance (and they might still agree, which IMO is a bug).
Cheers
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I'm not sure I'd call it a bug. Quirky as all get out, sure. Than again, I think the whole diplomatic engine is skewed. It's too reliant on the political ideology blocs for success resolution. I would have much preferred an engine like EU2, with the matrices, and individual relations. I can't wait to see what Victoria brings to the table.
 
Whenever I play Italy, I always choose the second option, which firmly puts me in the democratic camp. The reason for that is because I cannot afford the dissent hit. It sort of messes up the possibility for Germany asking me to join their alliance.

I think that this event needs some modification, as since protecting Austria was Italy's interest, and they were doing this for years (supported Austria's independence in the 1936 attempted coup), that they should not face a major change politically should they just do things that they always have done.
 
The reason I hate this even is that when I Italy goes democratic she can only influence countries to become more democratic. In a game I played I tried hard to get Switzerland to join me but all I could do is to move them even more to democracy.
Can there be a single event that will change the whole nature of the regime but no govermant change occurs? I think this event is fine, but just a bit too expensive for the fascist cause. Maybe it should be modified to hit you with less points but on the other hand I got no idea what would be historically correct. Would Italy become a democracy and held elections next year :confused:?
 
Originally posted by Hogar
The reason I hate this even is that when I Italy goes democratic she can only influence countries to become more democratic. In a game I played I tried hard to get Switzerland to join me but all I could do is to move them even more to democracy.
Can there be a single event that will change the whole nature of the regime but no govermant change occurs? I think this event is fine, but just a bit too expensive for the fascist cause. Maybe it should be modified to hit you with less points but on the other hand I got no idea what would be historically correct. Would Italy become a democracy and held elections next year :confused:?
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Without replacing the HoS and the HoG, there is no way to change the governmental ideology. Italy will remain a fascist government as long as Mussolini is in charge. This is yet another hang up of the diplomatic engine. Unlike EU2, where you could force a religion change with out changing monarch, HoI must have a change of government to change ideology. I suppose you could insert a LC aligned Mussolini into the italian ministers file, and have the event switch the HoG to that, but is it worth it?
 
beach reduction

Hi,

to help Italian AI and reduce some of the problems encountered in North Africa fighting could it be possible to reduce the amount of beaches? I would personaly erase :
Misratah, Al Aqaylah and Benghazi. Historically unless I'm wrong there was no big landings in the Desert War. This could avoid CW and UK troops landing in the back of italian army and destroying planes based there and also help garrisonong.

On the other hand the same could be done with UK and erase Scapa Flow, Perth, Edimbourgh to help english AI. We also know that Germans were obliged to land in the south of UK due to air superiority for example.

I would personnaly do the same with Rostock, Gabes, Prussia and some other places in the Balkans or North Africa. Landing is too easy in HoI and the logistics in reality was very difficult to implement. As the AI is absolutely unable to do something about garrisoning well these beaches reducing them is may be a solution.

Bye. Speed.
 
Is there a particular reason the Aquila Class Aircraft Carriers are not in the C.O.R.E.

They'd be the equivalent of the Aviation Carriers, would they not?

Just asking because I'm fixing up my events and adding in two new ones to do with Italian Naval and Aviation Planning, and the Colony of Libya.

- MVSN
 
Originally posted by mvsnconsolegene
Is there a particular reason the Aquila Class Aircraft Carriers are not in the C.O.R.E.

They'd be the equivalent of the Aviation Carriers, would they not?

Just asking because I'm fixing up my events and adding in two new ones to do with Italian Naval and Aviation Planning, and the Colony of Libya.

- MVSN
Click to expand...

The Aquila class carriers were conversions from passenger liners, and were done 1941-43. The merchant conversion tech, and the escort carrier tech (I think that's the righ tone), allow for this. There was only the Aquila (converted from the liner Roma). Two others were proposed (Sparviero class), but were never completed.
 
The Aquila class carriers were conversions from passenger liners, and were done 1941-43. The merchant conversion tech, and the escort carrier tech (I think that's the righ tone), allow for this. There was only the Aquila (converted from the liner Roma). Two others were proposed (Sparviero class), but were never completed.
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I don't believe that the merchant conversion tech names them Aquila, that's all :). I might be wrong.

Yes, I am quite aware that they only had one. Construction began in 1942 through a modified tanker. In 1943, Italian frogmen partially scuttled the ship to prevent it from getting into German hands. It was then salvaged , but scuttled by the Germans in 1945. In 1946 the Aquila was salvaged but to only to be towed for scrap metal.

- MVSN
 
MVSN, maybe you meant "Aviation Cruiser" instead of "Aviation Carrier"....

Aviation Cruisers are ships like post-war Soviets carriers that were cruiser (with a number of good guns or missles) and a quite big deck....

As JRaup said Aquila was really a liner, so a "Conversion" class.

"Sparviero" was planned as modification from a cruiser.

Italy never had or planned (because it never had the resources to build one) a real CV.
With the exception of the modern CVH Garibaldi class.
 
Can anybody take a look at the Italian AI beach defend settings please.

Especially ;

- Milan
- Both provinces in Sicily

UK invades here very regularly, very early in the war, that's very nice especially when Italy only defends it with 1 division.
 
I'm a little worried about how good the Alpini are, relative to their cost. As it stands, I see no reason for the Italian player not to churn out dozens of these suckers (maybe a few with Engineers) rather than building any other ground units. If this was not the intended manner for Italy to wage war, could the "Failings" tech alter the cost of Mountain Troops, probably by increasing their construction time?
 
I don't know that Italy lacked the means to create a carrier from scratch, but due to situation and policy, Carriers were not introduced until it was too late to create them from scratch.

The problem was similar to that of the United Kingdom, where the Royal Air Force was determined to retain power, and did not want to become subordinate to the navy, resulting in carriers being neglected. They guaranteed that they would be able to provide air cover anywhere in the Medeterranian. Carriers were proposed during the inter-war era, comparable to foreign designs, but policy and the Air Force's power kept them from being created.

Most conversions were done due to cost or time restraints, not knowledge. If you could convert a liner into a carrier, you could build a full fledged carrier. The reasn why the Aquila was converted instead of built from scratch, was that it would have taken at least an extra year to complete. The Navy needed it ASAP, and since the hull of a liner was already completed, it saved them a lot of time to convert.

Just because the only built a conversion does not mean that they didn't have the knowledge/ability to build a correct carrier, just not the political support or appeared need.
 
Originally posted by hendriks
Can anybody take a look at the Italian AI beach defend settings please.

Especially ;

- Milan
- Both provinces in Sicily

UK invades here very regularly, very early in the war, that's very nice especially when Italy only defends it with 1 division.
Click to expand...

I am going to try some alternate Garrison settings, based less upon provincial territories, and more on foreign borders (especially in the north). Rome almost always has loads of troops (from between 10-15 divisions) sitting there, which is unecessary (5 would do). North Africa also has about 16 divisions (10 would suffice). Unfortunately, Ethiopia requires at least 11 divisions because of the problems of revolts, which sucks up about 1/3-1/4 of their starting forces. Other problems that I have seen is that Italy never defends Albania sufficiently (usually just two divisions). When they are at war with Yugoslavia, they almost always get creamed and have to wait for Germany to liberate them.
 
Originally posted by The Apologist
I'm a little worried about how good the Alpini are, relative to their cost. As it stands, I see no reason for the Italian player not to churn out dozens of these suckers (maybe a few with Engineers) rather than building any other ground units. If this was not the intended manner for Italy to wage war, could the "Failings" tech alter the cost of Mountain Troops, probably by increasing their construction time?
Click to expand...

Even the Italian Alpini were known to be very reliable. The problem that I have is that they become tougher units than regular infantry (in regards to attack and defense values), primarily due to the +SA and +GD values gained in the Mountain Specialist Equipment tech that just about everyone has. I understand the Organization bonus, but their attack and defense values should not be higher than regular Infantry. Maybe changing this single technology would work to decrease Mountain unit strength. Instead of adding hard values, it could do what other techs do, and add bonus' for mountain and hill fighting/movement?
 
I have revised some of the Garrison settings for Italy, and the result is very positive. Instead of using province priorities for most garrison fronts, I used national priorities. When/if France goes Vichy, the Italians will put fewer troops on their border, freeing up more to serve on other fronts or provinces. I increased the value of all mainland and Sicilian beaches so that on average about 3 divisions are garrisoning (this usually turns to two units when fighting starts in Yugoslavia/North Africa and troops are drained from garrison areas). I doubt that this would stop a concentrated Allied landing, but should limit those annoying one division beacheads.
 
less beaches

What about something I already proposed before that would reduce the problems of Italian AI : reduce the number of beaches.

I still don't understand why there are so many beaches in North Africa. By reducing the number of beaches there and in other places (Scotland and Prussia) the AI would have less problems garrisoning or launching suicidal attacks. Historically landing is difficult, that would reduce the problems?

Bye. Speed.
 
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